Java the ultimate scam???
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I totally agree. I deliberatly avoid all Java apps because they are slow and very, very fugly.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
« eikonoklastes »
I actually uninstalled the java runtime environment today. I figured I didn't need it anymore, now that I've switched to a bank who doesn't use neanderthal technology for their online banking services. I'm a free man now. No more jusched.exe! :) -- Komm tu mir langsam weh, leg mir die Ketten an und zieh die Knoten fest, damit ich lachen kann I blog too now[^]
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my cell phone uses Java (Moto 550). it's slow. Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
This is exactly what I am talking about - why, after 10 years, and plenty of evidence that it's performace is just plain shitty, is it still being pushed into these areas (i.e. embedded devices)? Why are programmers using it, knowing full well that it sucks? Is it just the "it's written in Java so it must be cool" mind set? Even worse, why, after 10 fucking years has Sun not fixed this stuff? Hell even on the SparcStation we have at work it runs horribly, much much worse than on comparable PC hardware - and you'd think it would be in Sun's own interest to have it perform well on *their* hardware!!!! ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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This is exactly what I am talking about - why, after 10 years, and plenty of evidence that it's performace is just plain shitty, is it still being pushed into these areas (i.e. embedded devices)? Why are programmers using it, knowing full well that it sucks? Is it just the "it's written in Java so it must be cool" mind set? Even worse, why, after 10 fucking years has Sun not fixed this stuff? Hell even on the SparcStation we have at work it runs horribly, much much worse than on comparable PC hardware - and you'd think it would be in Sun's own interest to have it perform well on *their* hardware!!!! ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
i'm wondering why my DVR from Time Warner crashes 30% of the time then takes 2 mintues to start up when i have to reboot it. what ever happened to unit testing ? Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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This is exactly what I am talking about - why, after 10 years, and plenty of evidence that it's performace is just plain shitty, is it still being pushed into these areas (i.e. embedded devices)? Why are programmers using it, knowing full well that it sucks? Is it just the "it's written in Java so it must be cool" mind set? Even worse, why, after 10 fucking years has Sun not fixed this stuff? Hell even on the SparcStation we have at work it runs horribly, much much worse than on comparable PC hardware - and you'd think it would be in Sun's own interest to have it perform well on *their* hardware!!!! ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Thank god it isn't because Sun and IBM want to keep selling more powerful hardware, and make intel boxes look way to slow to do anything useful. :rolleyes:
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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In a few months we'll witness the 10 year anniversary of Java. My question is: have we all been victim to nothing more than a 10 year long scam by Sun? When Java was first designed it was envisioned that it would find it's niche in CE (consumer electronics) devices like set top box for video on demand movie players, or other such devices. Then it was announced that Netscape would bundle built in functionality for loading Java applets on the fly. In fact at the Sun convention where this was announced : "an influential audience of technologists and the press is pounding out excited applause, knowing they are witnessing the beginnings of something very big for the future of the Internet." src: http://java.sun.com/features/1998/05/birthday.html[^] Hmm, 10 years later and just how big a deal has it made? Java applets are almost never used, with the exception of a few pages. Java Server Pages I guess are used here and there, but my memory of working with this was that it was a pain in the ass, and not really worth it. I have to say, that frankly it seems Java on the web is kind of underwhelming. Java performance on the desktop, without using fairly high end hardware still blows salmon scales. Keep in mind: Sun has had a full decade to tackle and beat into submission various performance issues, and to the best of my knowledge there is *still* no real penetration of Java applications within the desktop app market. Yeah there are a handful of developer tools (mainly because we're the only ones patient enough to wait around for it load up, or put up with Java's sub par, scratch that, shitty performance) that people use, but my experience with all has been that: a) their performance sucks (except on a shiny new Pentium 4 Xeon @ 3 GHz* then it's not too bad). b) they look like ass (with the exception of Eclipse - this actually looks normal, at least on Win32), and don't really play well with underlying OS c) Did I mention they look dumb and run poorly? No? Well they do. Undoubtedly there are people who write applications in it, but you don't see much in terms of everyday usage. I don't see any *commonly* used Java based apps for: - media playing, i.e. something like iTunes or WinAmp in Java - image management/browsing - something like a simple PSP or iPhoto, or whatever - name you're program
Jim Crafton wrote: Java the ultimate scam I believe it has been. A lot of good people were hoodwinked into believing Java was something good when it was just crap. And this has cost the whole IT industry severly. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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This is exactly what I am talking about - why, after 10 years, and plenty of evidence that it's performace is just plain shitty, is it still being pushed into these areas (i.e. embedded devices)? Why are programmers using it, knowing full well that it sucks? Is it just the "it's written in Java so it must be cool" mind set? Even worse, why, after 10 fucking years has Sun not fixed this stuff? Hell even on the SparcStation we have at work it runs horribly, much much worse than on comparable PC hardware - and you'd think it would be in Sun's own interest to have it perform well on *their* hardware!!!! ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: Is it just the "it's written in Java so it must be cool" mind set? Yup! He said this was like painstakingly assembling the first layer of a house of cards, then boasting that the next 15,000 layers were a mere formality.--The Code Book, pp. 331 Toasty0.com DotNetGroup.org
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Thank god it isn't because Sun and IBM want to keep selling more powerful hardware, and make intel boxes look way to slow to do anything useful. :rolleyes:
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
Well that makes perfect sense in the server world. However, what hardware does Sun or IBM sell that matters to handheld or phone devices? And don't forget, Java runs far worse (in my experience) on Sun hardware than it does on Intel!!! Any of the little admin java apps for Solaris run like utter pigs on the SparcStation we have at work. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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In a few months we'll witness the 10 year anniversary of Java. My question is: have we all been victim to nothing more than a 10 year long scam by Sun? When Java was first designed it was envisioned that it would find it's niche in CE (consumer electronics) devices like set top box for video on demand movie players, or other such devices. Then it was announced that Netscape would bundle built in functionality for loading Java applets on the fly. In fact at the Sun convention where this was announced : "an influential audience of technologists and the press is pounding out excited applause, knowing they are witnessing the beginnings of something very big for the future of the Internet." src: http://java.sun.com/features/1998/05/birthday.html[^] Hmm, 10 years later and just how big a deal has it made? Java applets are almost never used, with the exception of a few pages. Java Server Pages I guess are used here and there, but my memory of working with this was that it was a pain in the ass, and not really worth it. I have to say, that frankly it seems Java on the web is kind of underwhelming. Java performance on the desktop, without using fairly high end hardware still blows salmon scales. Keep in mind: Sun has had a full decade to tackle and beat into submission various performance issues, and to the best of my knowledge there is *still* no real penetration of Java applications within the desktop app market. Yeah there are a handful of developer tools (mainly because we're the only ones patient enough to wait around for it load up, or put up with Java's sub par, scratch that, shitty performance) that people use, but my experience with all has been that: a) their performance sucks (except on a shiny new Pentium 4 Xeon @ 3 GHz* then it's not too bad). b) they look like ass (with the exception of Eclipse - this actually looks normal, at least on Win32), and don't really play well with underlying OS c) Did I mention they look dumb and run poorly? No? Well they do. Undoubtedly there are people who write applications in it, but you don't see much in terms of everyday usage. I don't see any *commonly* used Java based apps for: - media playing, i.e. something like iTunes or WinAmp in Java - image management/browsing - something like a simple PSP or iPhoto, or whatever - name you're program
What I find more interesting is that it was not Sun that gave the world the only decent Java application for the desktop, it was IBM and their Eclipse project. I know Eclipse is not lightning quick, but it sure does hold its own when compared to .NET applications that I have seen. I have been using the "speedy" Java applications from Merant/Serena and I have to ask, "Why can't you use the technology that you are supporting. As original and current members of the Eclipse board, why can you not make an application that is even half the speed of Eclipse? I think Java has potential with the right companies and people behind it, but with Sun's apparent desire to limit Java's abilities, it may never happen. I think the blame here is in the wrong place, it isn't really Java's fault, but Sun's. Sad when company politics and policies ruin something that could have been. Shawn
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In a few months we'll witness the 10 year anniversary of Java. My question is: have we all been victim to nothing more than a 10 year long scam by Sun? When Java was first designed it was envisioned that it would find it's niche in CE (consumer electronics) devices like set top box for video on demand movie players, or other such devices. Then it was announced that Netscape would bundle built in functionality for loading Java applets on the fly. In fact at the Sun convention where this was announced : "an influential audience of technologists and the press is pounding out excited applause, knowing they are witnessing the beginnings of something very big for the future of the Internet." src: http://java.sun.com/features/1998/05/birthday.html[^] Hmm, 10 years later and just how big a deal has it made? Java applets are almost never used, with the exception of a few pages. Java Server Pages I guess are used here and there, but my memory of working with this was that it was a pain in the ass, and not really worth it. I have to say, that frankly it seems Java on the web is kind of underwhelming. Java performance on the desktop, without using fairly high end hardware still blows salmon scales. Keep in mind: Sun has had a full decade to tackle and beat into submission various performance issues, and to the best of my knowledge there is *still* no real penetration of Java applications within the desktop app market. Yeah there are a handful of developer tools (mainly because we're the only ones patient enough to wait around for it load up, or put up with Java's sub par, scratch that, shitty performance) that people use, but my experience with all has been that: a) their performance sucks (except on a shiny new Pentium 4 Xeon @ 3 GHz* then it's not too bad). b) they look like ass (with the exception of Eclipse - this actually looks normal, at least on Win32), and don't really play well with underlying OS c) Did I mention they look dumb and run poorly? No? Well they do. Undoubtedly there are people who write applications in it, but you don't see much in terms of everyday usage. I don't see any *commonly* used Java based apps for: - media playing, i.e. something like iTunes or WinAmp in Java - image management/browsing - something like a simple PSP or iPhoto, or whatever - name you're program
Yes, JAVA has always been a marketing scam to try to lure developers into something Sun could control. Now we're in the midst of Microsoft's reply with C# trying to suck in but the Javaites and the remaining C++ crew. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
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In a few months we'll witness the 10 year anniversary of Java. My question is: have we all been victim to nothing more than a 10 year long scam by Sun? When Java was first designed it was envisioned that it would find it's niche in CE (consumer electronics) devices like set top box for video on demand movie players, or other such devices. Then it was announced that Netscape would bundle built in functionality for loading Java applets on the fly. In fact at the Sun convention where this was announced : "an influential audience of technologists and the press is pounding out excited applause, knowing they are witnessing the beginnings of something very big for the future of the Internet." src: http://java.sun.com/features/1998/05/birthday.html[^] Hmm, 10 years later and just how big a deal has it made? Java applets are almost never used, with the exception of a few pages. Java Server Pages I guess are used here and there, but my memory of working with this was that it was a pain in the ass, and not really worth it. I have to say, that frankly it seems Java on the web is kind of underwhelming. Java performance on the desktop, without using fairly high end hardware still blows salmon scales. Keep in mind: Sun has had a full decade to tackle and beat into submission various performance issues, and to the best of my knowledge there is *still* no real penetration of Java applications within the desktop app market. Yeah there are a handful of developer tools (mainly because we're the only ones patient enough to wait around for it load up, or put up with Java's sub par, scratch that, shitty performance) that people use, but my experience with all has been that: a) their performance sucks (except on a shiny new Pentium 4 Xeon @ 3 GHz* then it's not too bad). b) they look like ass (with the exception of Eclipse - this actually looks normal, at least on Win32), and don't really play well with underlying OS c) Did I mention they look dumb and run poorly? No? Well they do. Undoubtedly there are people who write applications in it, but you don't see much in terms of everyday usage. I don't see any *commonly* used Java based apps for: - media playing, i.e. something like iTunes or WinAmp in Java - image management/browsing - something like a simple PSP or iPhoto, or whatever - name you're program
have you ever run borland's jbuilder? it's also suprisingly fast for a java application. i've been quite amazed... i installed it once because i wanted to play around with it, saw that it was written in java and went "oh no"... boy was i suprised... but i have to agree. java apps are usually really slow and bloated... -- Raoul Snyman Saturn Laboratories e-mail: raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za web: http://www.saturnlaboratories.co.za/ blog: http://blog.saturnlaboratories.co.za/ linux user: #333298