Good news, again and again
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Militant groups have agreed to temporarily halt attacks on Israel - a precursor to a formal truce agreement - to give Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas a chance to persuade Israel to stop targeting militants in return, Palestinian officials said Monday. [^] What does Abbas is impressive. In a few days, he took many steps to undercut violent movements. I hope Israel and the US will make some symbolic gestures, Abbas needs all the support he can get.
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Militant groups have agreed to temporarily halt attacks on Israel - a precursor to a formal truce agreement - to give Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas a chance to persuade Israel to stop targeting militants in return, Palestinian officials said Monday. [^] What does Abbas is impressive. In a few days, he took many steps to undercut violent movements. I hope Israel and the US will make some symbolic gestures, Abbas needs all the support he can get.
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K(arl) wrote: What does Abbas is impressive. In a few days, he took many steps to undercut violent movements. I hope Israel and the US will make some symbolic gestures, Abbas needs all the support he can get. This is in fact proof that Arafat was nothing but a terrorist. The symbolic gesture was made in Oslo, again in Camp David (latter days of Clinton's second term) and again with the Roadmap. The Roadmap calls for dismantling / disarming the terrorists. Any further gesture should be premised on a proscribed period with no terrorist acts. A year sounds appropriate. And why the flying fuck should a band of terrorists be given any gesture? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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K(arl) wrote: What does Abbas is impressive. In a few days, he took many steps to undercut violent movements. I hope Israel and the US will make some symbolic gestures, Abbas needs all the support he can get. This is in fact proof that Arafat was nothing but a terrorist. The symbolic gesture was made in Oslo, again in Camp David (latter days of Clinton's second term) and again with the Roadmap. The Roadmap calls for dismantling / disarming the terrorists. Any further gesture should be premised on a proscribed period with no terrorist acts. A year sounds appropriate. And why the flying fuck should a band of terrorists be given any gesture? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: should a band of terrorists be given any gesture? For the greater good ? "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."
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K(arl) wrote: What does Abbas is impressive. In a few days, he took many steps to undercut violent movements. I hope Israel and the US will make some symbolic gestures, Abbas needs all the support he can get. This is in fact proof that Arafat was nothing but a terrorist. The symbolic gesture was made in Oslo, again in Camp David (latter days of Clinton's second term) and again with the Roadmap. The Roadmap calls for dismantling / disarming the terrorists. Any further gesture should be premised on a proscribed period with no terrorist acts. A year sounds appropriate. And why the flying fuck should a band of terrorists be given any gesture? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: in fact proof that Arafat was nothing but a terrorist. No one can say yet if Abbas' bet will succeed. He's risking a civil war on that one. Mike Gaskey wrote: The Roadmap calls for dismantling / disarming the terrorists The roadmap calls also to dismantle settlements and remove settlers, and today Israel is still annexing more and more lands. No side implemented the roadmap, the difference is Israel and Sharon get a free hand from GWB, who puts obligations on the palestinian side only. Man, how would you react if someone tried to grab your land? Won't you fight back? For many palestinians, these terrorists are an Army. As was IRA in Ireland during the 20's. As was Armia Krajowa in Poland during WW2. It's way to soon to tell how History will judge these guys.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links
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Mike Gaskey wrote: should a band of terrorists be given any gesture? For the greater good ? "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."
Ramanan Sivan wrote: For the greater good ? I hate it when I come across logic here, but you're right. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Ramanan Sivan wrote: For the greater good ? I hate it when I come across logic here, but you're right. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Mike Gaskey wrote: in fact proof that Arafat was nothing but a terrorist. No one can say yet if Abbas' bet will succeed. He's risking a civil war on that one. Mike Gaskey wrote: The Roadmap calls for dismantling / disarming the terrorists The roadmap calls also to dismantle settlements and remove settlers, and today Israel is still annexing more and more lands. No side implemented the roadmap, the difference is Israel and Sharon get a free hand from GWB, who puts obligations on the palestinian side only. Man, how would you react if someone tried to grab your land? Won't you fight back? For many palestinians, these terrorists are an Army. As was IRA in Ireland during the 20's. As was Armia Krajowa in Poland during WW2. It's way to soon to tell how History will judge these guys.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links
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Mike Gaskey wrote: in fact proof that Arafat was nothing but a terrorist. No one can say yet if Abbas' bet will succeed. He's risking a civil war on that one. Mike Gaskey wrote: The Roadmap calls for dismantling / disarming the terrorists The roadmap calls also to dismantle settlements and remove settlers, and today Israel is still annexing more and more lands. No side implemented the roadmap, the difference is Israel and Sharon get a free hand from GWB, who puts obligations on the palestinian side only. Man, how would you react if someone tried to grab your land? Won't you fight back? For many palestinians, these terrorists are an Army. As was IRA in Ireland during the 20's. As was Armia Krajowa in Poland during WW2. It's way to soon to tell how History will judge these guys.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links
K(arl) wrote: It's way to soon to tell how History will judge these guys. Depends on whether it is written honestly or in an Orwellian fashion. Not to pick at the scab, but is "this" land theirs or is it in Jordan. Without digging into too much detail, this land was taken after Israel was attacked. And as I read the news, Sharon is pulling out unilaterally ultimately leaving the Palestinians (and I think that is a contrived name) to their own devices. But with all that said, if those against Israel cease the killing I bet it ends in peace. My understanding, and it is limited, is that Israel has an insufferable group of dovish liberals (in the US sense of the word) that would makes Sharon's life a living hell if peace broke out and he didn't reciprocate. And I agree that the US along with other nations (not the UN, they'd muck it up) should do something positive if it stays quiet for a month, which I would say is the minimum to show intent. But, I doubt it happens. Why? Well because Hamas at least is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. With luck, I am wrong. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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K(arl) wrote: Man, how would you react if someone tried to grab your land? I wonder how Israel reacted when it was taken from them by the Asyrians, Babylonians, Romans, Nazis, etc? I'm pretty sure they are well aware of what it was like.
IIRC, originally Israel was created with land grabed from chaldeans. Abraham came in a land and occupied it. Brian Gideon wrote: I wonder how Israel reacted when it was taken from them by the Asyrians, Babylonians, Romans, Nazis, etc It took it back, using violent means if necessary.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links
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K(arl) wrote: It's way to soon to tell how History will judge these guys. Depends on whether it is written honestly or in an Orwellian fashion. Not to pick at the scab, but is "this" land theirs or is it in Jordan. Without digging into too much detail, this land was taken after Israel was attacked. And as I read the news, Sharon is pulling out unilaterally ultimately leaving the Palestinians (and I think that is a contrived name) to their own devices. But with all that said, if those against Israel cease the killing I bet it ends in peace. My understanding, and it is limited, is that Israel has an insufferable group of dovish liberals (in the US sense of the word) that would makes Sharon's life a living hell if peace broke out and he didn't reciprocate. And I agree that the US along with other nations (not the UN, they'd muck it up) should do something positive if it stays quiet for a month, which I would say is the minimum to show intent. But, I doubt it happens. Why? Well because Hamas at least is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. With luck, I am wrong. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: land was taken after Israel was attacked Are you saying force justify annexion? :~ Mike Gaskey wrote: Sharon is pulling out unilaterally ultimately leaving the Palestinians "The government is enforcing a law on absentee landowners passed in 1950, the Israeli daily Haaretz says. Israeli lawyers acting for owners described the policy as a "land grab". Thousands of Palestinians who possess land in East Jerusalem could lose ownership of their property. Some in Bethlehem and Beit Jalla lost rights to their land in August after it was cut off by the West Bank barrier. The move seems likely to fuel tensions over East Jerusalem. Israel has annexed all of the city and sees it as its exclusive domain. Palestinians hope East Jerusalem will be the capital of their future state. Under international law East Jerusalem is seen as occupied territory."[^] Mike Gaskey wrote: if those against Israel cease the killing I bet it ends in peace. May you be right. Mike Gaskey wrote: Why? Well because Hamas at least is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. I recognize these guys are serious wackos (I just read some excerpts of their website, what a bunch of paranoid extremists). The question is, are they representative of the Palestinian people and may some nuts behavior decide for the faith of all the Palestinian people? I don't think so, that's why "we" have to help the ones who oppose such tactics in the most efficient ways. IMO, there's a high risk of civil war among Palestinians, the international community (agreed, not the UN, which is too divided on the subject to be useful) should intervene loudly to support Abbas NOW, not when it's too late. And for this, the palestinian people needs clear signs and needs to recover some hope.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links
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Mike Gaskey wrote: land was taken after Israel was attacked Are you saying force justify annexion? :~ Mike Gaskey wrote: Sharon is pulling out unilaterally ultimately leaving the Palestinians "The government is enforcing a law on absentee landowners passed in 1950, the Israeli daily Haaretz says. Israeli lawyers acting for owners described the policy as a "land grab". Thousands of Palestinians who possess land in East Jerusalem could lose ownership of their property. Some in Bethlehem and Beit Jalla lost rights to their land in August after it was cut off by the West Bank barrier. The move seems likely to fuel tensions over East Jerusalem. Israel has annexed all of the city and sees it as its exclusive domain. Palestinians hope East Jerusalem will be the capital of their future state. Under international law East Jerusalem is seen as occupied territory."[^] Mike Gaskey wrote: if those against Israel cease the killing I bet it ends in peace. May you be right. Mike Gaskey wrote: Why? Well because Hamas at least is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. I recognize these guys are serious wackos (I just read some excerpts of their website, what a bunch of paranoid extremists). The question is, are they representative of the Palestinian people and may some nuts behavior decide for the faith of all the Palestinian people? I don't think so, that's why "we" have to help the ones who oppose such tactics in the most efficient ways. IMO, there's a high risk of civil war among Palestinians, the international community (agreed, not the UN, which is too divided on the subject to be useful) should intervene loudly to support Abbas NOW, not when it's too late. And for this, the palestinian people needs clear signs and needs to recover some hope.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links
K(arl) wrote: I recognize these guys are serious wackos wow, we agree on something. my concern (if I were Palestinian) be that "we" come to terms with Israel then Hamas blows up some would be martyr and here comes the Israeli army - and rightly so. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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K(arl) wrote: I recognize these guys are serious wackos wow, we agree on something. my concern (if I were Palestinian) be that "we" come to terms with Israel then Hamas blows up some would be martyr and here comes the Israeli army - and rightly so. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Sadly wackos are on both sides, cf http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-01/26/content_2511589.htm[^]: Israel may also risk some kind of civil war. Hamas might also evolve[^]. I have much more doubts about the other weirdos of the Islamic Jihad.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links