Circumcision

Megan Forbes

Having been told that the baby we're expecting in May is a little boy this is obviously a question we need to resolve in our own minds, where the outcome hopefully answers "what is best for the child". Neither mine nor Brendan's families have ever had their sons circumcised, but as we're more concerned with health than cosmetic issues this alone would not be a reason for avoiding it. We first started to look into the pro's and con's in SA where it seems that it is pushed as a good choice. The literature our SA doctor provided us with stated things like hygeine and a good preventative of penile cancer in later life. However, I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons it's recommended to parents over there is an attempt to slow down deaths and amputations at "initiation schools" for teenagers in future years. In the UK there doesn't seem to be too much of an opinion (at least at our hospital) beyond "why bother". Not exactly a strong argument when taking a decision on part of your childs future. However, after looking into it a little further there do seem to be people vehemently opposed to it. Some claim that the preventative effect for penile cancer has never been proven, and that accidents happen on babies each year which result in the child being raised as a girl (is this really possible in the 21st century?!) - obviously an unacceptable situation if true. Right now we are steering towards leaving the baby uncut, especially as it seems that hygeine will not be affected. Apparently the foreskin should never be pushed back until the boy is old enough to do it himself, and until that age it's not possible for dirt to get trapped underneath anyway as it hasn't fully separated yet. Are there any true arguments for having this operation done? Would we be letting our son down by not having the op? As most of you here are male, and many are fathers I'd be very interested to hear any sides to the argument which should be weighed up before a final decision is taken. Just one of many confusing decisions when embarking upon the journey to parenthood :)

Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
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Jorgen Sigvardsson

Personally, I think it's wrong to remove body parts from people without their consent. :) -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. My name in Mandarin/Kanji is 乔尔根西格瓦德森. I blog too now[^]

PJ Arends

Where's Martin Marvinski when you need him? He used to rant on and on in this very forum about the evils of circumcision. The foreskin is there for a reason, and there is absolutely no good reason to mutilate your son by removing it, so don't do it.

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Lost User

Megan Forbes wrote: Right now we are steering towards leaving the baby uncut The right choice IMHO. The hygiene/health argument isn't at all convincing. Some would even say that it is morally repugnant to "butcher" your son like this - I don't feel quite that strongly but I do find it distasteful. And though it may be a big IF, what _if_ the surgeon did take off more than the skin? You would never, ever forgive yourself Megan. If there was any convincing proof that circumcision is the right thing to do, then fair enough, but with a total lack of medical proof then "why bother" indeed... As an uncircumcised male I have never, ever had any problems with respect to my foreskin (good grief, did I really just write that?).

The Rob Blog

Megan Forbes

Interesting that no arguments for it have come up, yet it seems to still be a common practice in much of the world (including the US I believe?). Fortunately that is not my concern, and I'm becoming more and more glad that we didn't just take our SA doctors word on the matter without looking into it further. All we want is a happy, healthy child. It's unusual to find that "taking the easy road" (in this case no op, and leaving well enough alone) is the best route, but if this is the case it certainly seems like good news.

Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
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Agnihothra

PJ Arends wrote: Where's Martin Marvinski..... Exactly my thoughts.. Martin used to "rave and rant" for days together about this topic.... Regards,
Agni.

Megan Forbes

Agnihothra wrote: Exactly my thoughts.. Martin used to "rave and rant" for days together about this topic.... :confused: Why? Was he a doctor in his spare time or something?

Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
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Agnihothra

Megan Forbes wrote: Was he a doctor in his spare time or something Don't know about that but circumcision was his fav topic.... Hey.. CP search works.. here is the link...(there is a content warning for the message.)[^] Regards,
Agni.

Megan Forbes

There is a link in that thread to http://www.fathermag.com/[^] which is a pretty interesting resource. Thanks :)

Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
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Agnihothra

Megan Forbes wrote: Thanks You are welcome.. :-) Regards,
Agni.

Roger Allen

When I was born in the US, this was standard practice in the hospital (i believe) I was at. So I have had the chop *shudder* I dont think having it done has given me any benefits. Personally, leave the choice to your son, when he gets old enough, let him decide whether he wants to do it. If you vote me down, my score will only get lower

Ryan Roberts

The first known drawing of a circumcision is on the wall of a 6th Dynasty tomb at Sakkara, Egypt, about 2400 BC, or 4400 years ago. Presumably, the practice began long before that. It is therefore a primitive blood ritual, and has no place in modern medicine Far to much information about foreskins here[^]. The excuses given for it are many, one of the first 'medical' reasons was to prevent masterbation(therefore insanity, drunkeness and countless other forms of moral weakness). Its a hideous practice. Would you consider doing it if you had a daughter? On a side note - didn't Sweeden attempt to ban male circumsision recently? Bloody brave move.. Ryan.

Bassam Abdul Baki

We just had our first born in August last year and the doctors in Virginia asked us yay or nay. We said yay since everyone man in both sides of our families has done it and we've never had or heard of any side effects. It's been around for thousands of years, and whether it's healthier or not I can't say. But since we're only familiar with this approach, we chose it for our son. Leaving the choice up to your kid implies letting him keep it. What are the chances that an adult male is going to cut off a piece of himself from down there? :-D It's like asking to be kicked in the groin. Personally, I think it's now or never. We opted for now. "For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you would never have considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." - Q (Star Trek: The Next Generation) ^ Blog

Tomaz Stih 0

I propose you add reducing oral sexual pleasure to your argument list against circumcision. :rolleyes: I would decide against it. If there will be any troubles, you can always cut it later. :sigh: Tomaž

Rama Krishna Vavilala

For a detailed research on this topic look at this site http://www.healthcentral.com[^]. There is a complete section about the topic

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Megan Forbes

Thanks Rama :)

Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
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Alvaro Mendez

I'm for circumcision. I didn't have it done when I was born and I always had hygeine issues. It was painful having to pull the foreskin all the way back to keep it clean and rid of yucky white secretions. Then at age 11 I had a circumcision and these problems vanished. Regards, Alvaro

You know what they say about arguing over the Internet...

jonathan15

No, No, No. Don’t do it. My little boy is 18 months old and I would never subject him to any form of surgical procedure unless it was proven that it was absolutely necessary. Believe me there will be plenty of opportunities for hospital visits when he falls when climbing up the cupboards or runs into a door frame etc etc. Just my opinion, I wouldn't want to tell anybody how to raise their kids. Jon

wrykyn

First of all, Congrats on the baby! :) I remember reading somewhere that if its done right after birth it reduces the risk of penile cancer about 15% but if its done after a week or so post birth it has no effect whatsoever. And anyway that's the rarest form of cancer out there (so rare its almost non-existent) so I vote that you not opt for circumcision. "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."

David Wulff

If you are worried about cancers that if they do come about won't form until the mid to later part of your sons life then leave the descision up to him when he is old enough to decide. (Assuming it doesn't become a prohibited form of mutilation in the mean time, which it eventually will.) Being a parent that doesn't really help you much, but ultimately you are going to have to let go one day. Penile cancer should be the last of your concerns though, it is almost completely avoidable with care, keeping him out of dirty inner city areas during the first sixteen years of his life will do more for his quality of life than any cosmetic surgery will. Circumcision was (and still is somewhat) popular in the States because propper penile hygeine requires you to - shock horror - touch your dick and that is taboo. Realistically, with propper daily hygeine and only twenty seconds under the shower it isn't necessary, but I'd suggest you get your husband to show him how to go about it when it is practically possible for your son to do so. To wander a little into specifics, smegma (that white stuff that was mentioned above and the core ingredient of every Red Dwarf joke) is necessary for a healthy penis. It comes from the foreskin not the penis so if you cut it off... you do without. It acts like both tears to keep the head clean and a protein/repair wash similar to that your eyes get when you're sleeping. It is also an anti-bacterial agent that helps prevent the nasty bacteria your body has just pissed away from coming back in again. What boys typical experience before puberty is not the same stuff - that's dead skins cells from the seperation of the foreskin from their penis and sebum which decreases over time - that is why it would hurt like hell if they tried to clean under their foreskin (they'd basically be ripping the layers apart, and causing all sorts of nasty infections). Thankfully I missed that experience myself! In fact, before they start producing smegma it is best to leave it be because they will be more prone to irritation and infection by their own urine until it starts getting produced. (At the very least if you do get your son circumscised *always* change his nappy/diaper as soon as he wets himself because he won't have that natural protection against the bacteria anymore. Over time it will dull his senses because his body will have fought one too many wars againt all the nasty bacter