Steroid hearings
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If anyone had any doubt that these politicians were doing it simply to kill time and draw attention to themselves here's proof. Its been two and a half hours since the hearing started and so far not one player has been asked a question. Instead everyone who's someone is wasting everybody's time by talking of things that are only barely relevant http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2014564[^] "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."
It's a joke, just like MLB's Drug Policy[^]. $100,000 fine for the thid offense - that's only 1 games pay for a lot of these guys. :mad: Anger is the most impotent of passions. It effects nothing it goes about, and hurts the one who is possessed by it more than the one against whom it is directed. Carl Sandburg
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The entire situation is pathetic. X| I knew there was a reason I stopped paying attention to MLB 10+ years ago. :-> "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Amusingly, I'd say that this is something that almost ALL of us here on the Soapbox could agree with each other on. I cannot for the life of me understand why these jackasses (senators/reps) are wasting time with this. It seems to me the only reason these guys are being forced to "testify" is that Selig said "no", and this pissed off a group folks who are entirely too used to getting their way. "There's a cloud over the game that I love," said Republican Tom Davis. Here's a news flash for ya Tom (and no, I'm not picking on you 'cause you're Republican, just because yours was the first quote I saw): How about stop spending your money on MLB? Stop buying your fancy box seats, and support local, smaller teams. If enough people do this, it will send a far stronger signal than this self righteous hand wringing that we are all going to have to sit through for the next month or so while this nonsense plays out. Blah, what a waste! :mad: ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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It's a joke, just like MLB's Drug Policy[^]. $100,000 fine for the thid offense - that's only 1 games pay for a lot of these guys. :mad: Anger is the most impotent of passions. It effects nothing it goes about, and hurts the one who is possessed by it more than the one against whom it is directed. Carl Sandburg
I'm curious, what does the average player on these teams make? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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I'm curious, what does the average player on these teams make? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Seek and ye shall find![^] Holy shit! The median 2004 salary for the NY Yankees was 3.1 million USD!!! The Cinncinnati Reds were at 422,500 USD. Now contrast this to a fire fighter. That's right, the guy (or a I suppose gal) who is going to storm into a burning building, risk their life, and drag your sorry ass out of it. The national average[^] is 36,000 USD. If you're a New York fire fighter in Manhattan, you can look forward to a whopping 42,668[^] USD a year. I don't mind that baseball players get paid well. They have a very limited timespan in their career. Fine and good. But is anyone else bothered by the fact that the people who will be sacrificing their lives for ours in the case of a fire are paid os little? Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here? According to this: http://www.firecenter.mnscu.edu/faq/faq.html there are an estimated 1,108,240 fire fighters (2002) in the US. The national average is around 36K for 2004 according to Bloomberg. Seems kind of lame to me. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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Seek and ye shall find![^] Holy shit! The median 2004 salary for the NY Yankees was 3.1 million USD!!! The Cinncinnati Reds were at 422,500 USD. Now contrast this to a fire fighter. That's right, the guy (or a I suppose gal) who is going to storm into a burning building, risk their life, and drag your sorry ass out of it. The national average[^] is 36,000 USD. If you're a New York fire fighter in Manhattan, you can look forward to a whopping 42,668[^] USD a year. I don't mind that baseball players get paid well. They have a very limited timespan in their career. Fine and good. But is anyone else bothered by the fact that the people who will be sacrificing their lives for ours in the case of a fire are paid os little? Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here? According to this: http://www.firecenter.mnscu.edu/faq/faq.html there are an estimated 1,108,240 fire fighters (2002) in the US. The national average is around 36K for 2004 according to Bloomberg. Seems kind of lame to me. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
I have about as low of an opinion of sports professionals (and professional sports in general, I suppose) as anyone. But I always have to laugh when I see these rediculous comparisions between what these "athletes" earn compared to us average joes. If you had a skill that only some tiny percentage of the human population possesses, and if millions of people were willing to pay billions of dollars to watch you perform that skill, I think you would expect to be proportionally compensated for that performance - that money is going to go to someone, why not you? If a fireman wants to earn more money, let him take some steroids and get into the major leagues. -EDIT Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here The imbalance exists because of free people freely voting with their own dollars. Who's freedom would you limit to achieve a more "moral" distribution of wealth? "The Yahoos refused to be tamed."
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I have about as low of an opinion of sports professionals (and professional sports in general, I suppose) as anyone. But I always have to laugh when I see these rediculous comparisions between what these "athletes" earn compared to us average joes. If you had a skill that only some tiny percentage of the human population possesses, and if millions of people were willing to pay billions of dollars to watch you perform that skill, I think you would expect to be proportionally compensated for that performance - that money is going to go to someone, why not you? If a fireman wants to earn more money, let him take some steroids and get into the major leagues. -EDIT Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here The imbalance exists because of free people freely voting with their own dollars. Who's freedom would you limit to achieve a more "moral" distribution of wealth? "The Yahoos refused to be tamed."
Like I said I don't mind that prof athelets are well paid. My question is, why is it that we (as a society) are willing to dump insane amounts of money at folks to hit a fucking white ball around a field, yet value the very people who risk their lives for us in times of emergency? I would not try to limit anyone's "freedom". However I would question why the imbalance exists. Why are we willing to do the whole ra, ra, Firemen are National Heros song and dance, and yet on the other hand close down firestations (this has/is happening in Manhattan/Queens/Brooklyn), and offer such low salaries to these guys. Hitting a ball is a skill, no doubt. It's a skill that very few people are able to do at the level of MLB. But storming into a burning building and being able to stop a fire and save/care for people is a skill too. So my question still stands: how can we have such a massive imbalance in what's paid out to these guys? Do we just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Oh well that's the free market at work"? Why is it that jobs that have fundamental impacts on *all* our lives, such as teachers, fire fighters, etc, are regarded so poorly in terms of financial reward? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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Like I said I don't mind that prof athelets are well paid. My question is, why is it that we (as a society) are willing to dump insane amounts of money at folks to hit a fucking white ball around a field, yet value the very people who risk their lives for us in times of emergency? I would not try to limit anyone's "freedom". However I would question why the imbalance exists. Why are we willing to do the whole ra, ra, Firemen are National Heros song and dance, and yet on the other hand close down firestations (this has/is happening in Manhattan/Queens/Brooklyn), and offer such low salaries to these guys. Hitting a ball is a skill, no doubt. It's a skill that very few people are able to do at the level of MLB. But storming into a burning building and being able to stop a fire and save/care for people is a skill too. So my question still stands: how can we have such a massive imbalance in what's paid out to these guys? Do we just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Oh well that's the free market at work"? Why is it that jobs that have fundamental impacts on *all* our lives, such as teachers, fire fighters, etc, are regarded so poorly in terms of financial reward? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: So my question still stands: how can we have such a massive imbalance in what's paid out to these guys? Do we just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Oh well that's the free market at work"? Why is it that jobs that have fundamental impacts on *all* our lives, such as teachers, fire fighters, etc, are regarded so poorly in terms of financial reward? Because it's only when the unshaved beer-belly guy finds himself surrounded by flames, that he will probably think: "Hey, it would be pretty nice to have a firefighter around...", the rest of the time, he just doesn't care. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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Jim Crafton wrote: So my question still stands: how can we have such a massive imbalance in what's paid out to these guys? Do we just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Oh well that's the free market at work"? Why is it that jobs that have fundamental impacts on *all* our lives, such as teachers, fire fighters, etc, are regarded so poorly in terms of financial reward? Because it's only when the unshaved beer-belly guy finds himself surrounded by flames, that he will probably think: "Hey, it would be pretty nice to have a firefighter around...", the rest of the time, he just doesn't care. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
jan larsen wrote: Because it's only when the unshaved beer-belly guy finds himself surrounded by flames While cute, they are also plenty or well groomed, highly educated folks who apparently feel the same. Kind of sad. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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Jim Crafton wrote: So my question still stands: how can we have such a massive imbalance in what's paid out to these guys? Do we just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Oh well that's the free market at work"? Why is it that jobs that have fundamental impacts on *all* our lives, such as teachers, fire fighters, etc, are regarded so poorly in terms of financial reward? Because it's only when the unshaved beer-belly guy finds himself surrounded by flames, that he will probably think: "Hey, it would be pretty nice to have a firefighter around...", the rest of the time, he just doesn't care. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
jan larsen wrote: the unshaved beer-belly guy No need to limit it to him. Virtually nobody gives a shit, except when we get all warm and fuzzy discussing the sacrifices some people make. If people cared and were trully thankful, they'd stand up and complain that firefighters were not fairly compensated. Until that happens we're all just blowing hot air to feel like "we, unlike those other poor slobs, care dammit!" BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffin -
jan larsen wrote: the unshaved beer-belly guy No need to limit it to him. Virtually nobody gives a shit, except when we get all warm and fuzzy discussing the sacrifices some people make. If people cared and were trully thankful, they'd stand up and complain that firefighters were not fairly compensated. Until that happens we're all just blowing hot air to feel like "we, unlike those other poor slobs, care dammit!" BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffinbrianwelsch wrote: No need to limit it to him. Well, I'm actually an unshaven beer-belly guy you know :-), so I wasn't really counting myself out. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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brianwelsch wrote: No need to limit it to him. Well, I'm actually an unshaven beer-belly guy you know :-), so I wasn't really counting myself out. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
:) I am an unshaven beer-belly guy today too. BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffin -
Like I said I don't mind that prof athelets are well paid. My question is, why is it that we (as a society) are willing to dump insane amounts of money at folks to hit a fucking white ball around a field, yet value the very people who risk their lives for us in times of emergency? I would not try to limit anyone's "freedom". However I would question why the imbalance exists. Why are we willing to do the whole ra, ra, Firemen are National Heros song and dance, and yet on the other hand close down firestations (this has/is happening in Manhattan/Queens/Brooklyn), and offer such low salaries to these guys. Hitting a ball is a skill, no doubt. It's a skill that very few people are able to do at the level of MLB. But storming into a burning building and being able to stop a fire and save/care for people is a skill too. So my question still stands: how can we have such a massive imbalance in what's paid out to these guys? Do we just shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Oh well that's the free market at work"? Why is it that jobs that have fundamental impacts on *all* our lives, such as teachers, fire fighters, etc, are regarded so poorly in terms of financial reward? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: Hitting a ball is a skill, no doubt. It's a skill that very few people are able to do at the level of MLB. But storming into a burning building and being able to stop a fire and save/care for people is a skill too. A diamond is a rock. Quartz is a rock. Diamonds are pretty. Quartz is pretty. Diamonds are expensive . Quartz is cheap. There are a lot more quartz rocks than diamonds. There is the difference. People are paid what they are worth as determined my the free market - it makes no difference what skill level , importance of the job , etc. etc... If your town is willing to pay firemen and police 3,000,000.00 a year I am sure that you would have the finest force in the world and people from all over the USA would be flocking there to get a job. Its simply a matter of convincing your public that that salary is comesurate with the skills needed to be a police officer or a fire fighter. If you can throw a baseball at 95+mph with control then you go out and offer your services to the highest bidder. Same with any other job. Just that there are not many people that can do that so the competition pool is much smaller. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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Jim Crafton wrote: Hitting a ball is a skill, no doubt. It's a skill that very few people are able to do at the level of MLB. But storming into a burning building and being able to stop a fire and save/care for people is a skill too. A diamond is a rock. Quartz is a rock. Diamonds are pretty. Quartz is pretty. Diamonds are expensive . Quartz is cheap. There are a lot more quartz rocks than diamonds. There is the difference. People are paid what they are worth as determined my the free market - it makes no difference what skill level , importance of the job , etc. etc... If your town is willing to pay firemen and police 3,000,000.00 a year I am sure that you would have the finest force in the world and people from all over the USA would be flocking there to get a job. Its simply a matter of convincing your public that that salary is comesurate with the skills needed to be a police officer or a fire fighter. If you can throw a baseball at 95+mph with control then you go out and offer your services to the highest bidder. Same with any other job. Just that there are not many people that can do that so the competition pool is much smaller. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Richard Stringer wrote: People are paid what they are worth as determined my the free market I understand all that. I am not arguing with it. What I am arguing with, or rather what I am wondering out loud, is why do we apparently value, from a monetary stnadpoint, what these people do, fire fighters, etc, so little? Why do we go on TV, proclaim them national hero's, make a huge hoopla about them, yet when it comes down to dollars and cents, treat them no differently than a janitor? Richard Stringer wrote: pay firemen and police 3,000,000.00 a year I realize that you're trying to make a point, but realistically speaking I am not suggesting anything like this at all. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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I'm curious, what does the average player on these teams make? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
What defines an average player? I would think that the average salary would be of more interest.
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow
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Seek and ye shall find![^] Holy shit! The median 2004 salary for the NY Yankees was 3.1 million USD!!! The Cinncinnati Reds were at 422,500 USD. Now contrast this to a fire fighter. That's right, the guy (or a I suppose gal) who is going to storm into a burning building, risk their life, and drag your sorry ass out of it. The national average[^] is 36,000 USD. If you're a New York fire fighter in Manhattan, you can look forward to a whopping 42,668[^] USD a year. I don't mind that baseball players get paid well. They have a very limited timespan in their career. Fine and good. But is anyone else bothered by the fact that the people who will be sacrificing their lives for ours in the case of a fire are paid os little? Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here? According to this: http://www.firecenter.mnscu.edu/faq/faq.html there are an estimated 1,108,240 fire fighters (2002) in the US. The national average is around 36K for 2004 according to Bloomberg. Seems kind of lame to me. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: But is anyone else bothered by the fact that the people who will be sacrificing their lives for ours in the case of a fire are paid os little? Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here? If you simply took the numbers at face value, it does seem unfair, but in reality, this is comparing apples to oranges. The source of income for athletes and firefighters is different. The former comes from ticket/merchandise sales, while the latter comes from taxes. As long as people continue to support sports by purchasing tickets and merchandise, players will continue to demand more money. Firefighters cannot demand more money until the tax base increases.
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow
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Seek and ye shall find![^] Holy shit! The median 2004 salary for the NY Yankees was 3.1 million USD!!! The Cinncinnati Reds were at 422,500 USD. Now contrast this to a fire fighter. That's right, the guy (or a I suppose gal) who is going to storm into a burning building, risk their life, and drag your sorry ass out of it. The national average[^] is 36,000 USD. If you're a New York fire fighter in Manhattan, you can look forward to a whopping 42,668[^] USD a year. I don't mind that baseball players get paid well. They have a very limited timespan in their career. Fine and good. But is anyone else bothered by the fact that the people who will be sacrificing their lives for ours in the case of a fire are paid os little? Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here? According to this: http://www.firecenter.mnscu.edu/faq/faq.html there are an estimated 1,108,240 fire fighters (2002) in the US. The national average is around 36K for 2004 according to Bloomberg. Seems kind of lame to me. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: But is anyone else bothered by the fact that the people who will be sacrificing their lives for ours in the case of a fire are paid os little? Could we not have just a smidgen of balance here? I think it's stupid but having said that its all marketing. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)