The Culture Of Life
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This is Randall Terry[^]:
"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."
So what?
“Our family asked Randall Terry to come, and we gave him carte blanche to put Terri’s fight in front of the American people,” Schindler [Terri Shiavo's father] said. “He did exactly what we asked, and more. Randall organized vigils and protests, he coordinated the media, he helped us meet with Governor Bush.”
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This is Randall Terry[^]:
"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."
So what?
“Our family asked Randall Terry to come, and we gave him carte blanche to put Terri’s fight in front of the American people,” Schindler [Terri Shiavo's father] said. “He did exactly what we asked, and more. Randall organized vigils and protests, he coordinated the media, he helped us meet with Governor Bush.”
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Chris Losinger wrote: "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead." Irrespective of your opinion of Randall Terry, I take it you approve of the murder of Terri Shiavo. Does this square with your opinions on capital punishment? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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This is Randall Terry[^]:
"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."
So what?
“Our family asked Randall Terry to come, and we gave him carte blanche to put Terri’s fight in front of the American people,” Schindler [Terri Shiavo's father] said. “He did exactly what we asked, and more. Randall organized vigils and protests, he coordinated the media, he helped us meet with Governor Bush.”
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Chris Losinger wrote: Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead." He???? Chris Losinger wrote: we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you Sounds like a cardassian trial[^]. Chris Losinger wrote: Terri’s fight Her fight? Or her parents'?
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links!
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Chris Losinger wrote: Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead." He???? Chris Losinger wrote: we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you Sounds like a cardassian trial[^]. Chris Losinger wrote: Terri’s fight Her fight? Or her parents'?
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links!
K(arl) wrote: Her fight? Or her parents'? Both. The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water. She has been deprived of both for 10 to 11 days and continues to fight to live. The parents have exhausted every legal avenue to prevent the murder. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Chris Losinger wrote: "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead." Irrespective of your opinion of Randall Terry, I take it you approve of the murder of Terri Shiavo. Does this square with your opinions on capital punishment? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: I take it you approve of the murder of Terri Shiavo i approve of the husband's decision to do what he feels his wife would have wanted - and what 19 judges have agreed his wife would have wanted. Mike Gaskey wrote: Does this square with your opinions on capital punishment? yes Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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K(arl) wrote: Her fight? Or her parents'? Both. The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water. She has been deprived of both for 10 to 11 days and continues to fight to live. The parents have exhausted every legal avenue to prevent the murder. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water I thought the US justice decided it wasn't a murder? Or don't you respect the decisions of your judicial system? Isn't his husband his legal representant? Another question, did this woman expressed any will on her situation? And finally, aren't you also shocked by the premature deaths of all the people in the US who aren't rich enough to pay for health care, or is your pity reserved to the cases reaching TV news? I agree however on something, death by starvation is IMHO "inhuman": A lethal injection would be more appropriate.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links!
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Mike Gaskey wrote: I take it you approve of the murder of Terri Shiavo i approve of the husband's decision to do what he feels his wife would have wanted - and what 19 judges have agreed his wife would have wanted. Mike Gaskey wrote: Does this square with your opinions on capital punishment? yes Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: what 19 judges have agreed his wife would have wanted. What "his wife would have wanted" didn't come to light until several years following her heart attack. The husband only became aware of his wife's wishes after he won a million dollar judgement - well, 300k for the malpractice charge, and 600k for "loss of consort" and met someone else. Testimony of Terri's best childhood friend was ruled unaccpetable by the judge because of his lack of knowledge of the timeframe, that testimony was a quote from Terri who said she would never want that (a reference to taking Karen Ann Quinlan off of life support) to happen to her. When the same testimony was reentered in a subsequent legal proceeding and the judge was confronted with the correct timeframe he dismissed it out of hand as immaterial. The humane thing for the husband to do would have been to release her to her parents, but he'd rather murder her. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Mike Gaskey wrote: The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water I thought the US justice decided it wasn't a murder? Or don't you respect the decisions of your judicial system? Isn't his husband his legal representant? Another question, did this woman expressed any will on her situation? And finally, aren't you also shocked by the premature deaths of all the people in the US who aren't rich enough to pay for health care, or is your pity reserved to the cases reaching TV news? I agree however on something, death by starvation is IMHO "inhuman": A lethal injection would be more appropriate.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links!
K(arl) wrote: Or don't you respect the decisions of your judicial system? Isn't his husband his legal representant? The judge in this case is supporting euthanasia, and no I don't respect it. K(arl) wrote: did this woman expressed any will on her situation? According to her husband, yes. According to her family and childhood best friend, no - as a matter of fact she said she wouldn't want this to happen to her. K(arl) wrote: A lethal injection would be more appropriate. Nah, let's just fire up the ovens. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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K(arl) wrote: Her fight? Or her parents'? Both. The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water. She has been deprived of both for 10 to 11 days and continues to fight to live. The parents have exhausted every legal avenue to prevent the murder. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water. You're goofy! She was "killed" 15 years ago when her brain was starved of oxygen during a heart attack. Her parents are in denial. Keeping a brain-dead human body "alive" for no reason other than to pacify their own feelings is sick. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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K(arl) wrote: Her fight? Or her parents'? Both. The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water. She has been deprived of both for 10 to 11 days and continues to fight to live. The parents have exhausted every legal avenue to prevent the murder. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: continues to fight to live How do you know the essential "she" is still there? Anything that I have read about this indicates that her brain is just mush. That no consious thought is even possible, and all that's left is simply the "autopilot" if you will. That said, I don't understand why he's pushing so hard for this. As I understand it her parents are completely willing to take care of her, and have actively encouraged him to move on and live his life (which he has to a degree). I don't understand why he pushes *so* hard for this, when her parents have repeatedly demonstrated over and over that they want to take care of her. As far as I can tell there is no *good* decision here. If the mind/soul/whatever is truly linked to the proper functioning of the physical brain, then surely her essence died some time ago, in which case you've got an empty shell that is simply being fed, prolonging a "limbo" like existence. If there is no mind/soul, if all that we are is a collection of cells, then we still end up with living husk - because there are no functioning neurons left in her brain, other than the bits needed for autonomic functions. It seems to me no matter which choice you make it's a gruesome one, if the reports are correct in that the damage done to her brain is irrepairable. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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Chris Losinger wrote: what 19 judges have agreed his wife would have wanted. What "his wife would have wanted" didn't come to light until several years following her heart attack. The husband only became aware of his wife's wishes after he won a million dollar judgement - well, 300k for the malpractice charge, and 600k for "loss of consort" and met someone else. Testimony of Terri's best childhood friend was ruled unaccpetable by the judge because of his lack of knowledge of the timeframe, that testimony was a quote from Terri who said she would never want that (a reference to taking Karen Ann Quinlan off of life support) to happen to her. When the same testimony was reentered in a subsequent legal proceeding and the judge was confronted with the correct timeframe he dismissed it out of hand as immaterial. The humane thing for the husband to do would have been to release her to her parents, but he'd rather murder her. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: What "his wife would have wanted" didn't come to light until several years following her heart attack somehow i don't think that's a bit relevant. but i get the feeling there's something you're trying to insinuate. so, come on out and say it... Mike Gaskey wrote: When the same testimony was reentered in a subsequent legal proceeding and the judge was confronted with the correct timeframe he dismissed it out of hand as immaterial 19 judges. over a period of, what, 8 years ? are you going to argue against each one of their decisions ? were they all wrong ? he thinks he wife wouldn't have wanted to be kept 'alive' this way. turning her over to her parents would be a violation of that desire. i wouldn't do that to my wife. Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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Mike Gaskey wrote: continues to fight to live How do you know the essential "she" is still there? Anything that I have read about this indicates that her brain is just mush. That no consious thought is even possible, and all that's left is simply the "autopilot" if you will. That said, I don't understand why he's pushing so hard for this. As I understand it her parents are completely willing to take care of her, and have actively encouraged him to move on and live his life (which he has to a degree). I don't understand why he pushes *so* hard for this, when her parents have repeatedly demonstrated over and over that they want to take care of her. As far as I can tell there is no *good* decision here. If the mind/soul/whatever is truly linked to the proper functioning of the physical brain, then surely her essence died some time ago, in which case you've got an empty shell that is simply being fed, prolonging a "limbo" like existence. If there is no mind/soul, if all that we are is a collection of cells, then we still end up with living husk - because there are no functioning neurons left in her brain, other than the bits needed for autonomic functions. It seems to me no matter which choice you make it's a gruesome one, if the reports are correct in that the damage done to her brain is irrepairable. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: That said, I don't understand why he's pushing so hard for this. Ummm... precisely because he DOES love her and KNOWS she didn't want to be kept alive as a vegetable. As her husband, it is his duty to carry out her wishes. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Mike Gaskey wrote: The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water I thought the US justice decided it wasn't a murder? Or don't you respect the decisions of your judicial system? Isn't his husband his legal representant? Another question, did this woman expressed any will on her situation? And finally, aren't you also shocked by the premature deaths of all the people in the US who aren't rich enough to pay for health care, or is your pity reserved to the cases reaching TV news? I agree however on something, death by starvation is IMHO "inhuman": A lethal injection would be more appropriate.
Fold With Us! Sie wollen mein Herz am rechten Fleck, doch Seh' ich dann nach unten weg Da schlägt es links!
K(arl) wrote: I thought the US justice decided it wasn't a murder? Regardless of my opinion as to whether it's murder or not, I do have the opinion that this isn't something the government should decide. This is something that we have do be guided on based on our own ethics and beliefs. Which, of course, opens up a can of worms when two people have different ethics, hence we seek "the law". What really should have happened, IMO, and what is much, much harder, is for the husband and the family to come to a concensus based on their ethics rather than seeking a court decision. If anything, that is all that the law should have demanded--that she stays on life support until the family and the husband can reach a consensus. The other question, regarding how others feel about the matter based on their own ethics, is, to some extent, immaterial. If it weren't for the media, we wouldn't know about this. I'm not saying ignorance is bliss or condones the actions of others, but I do think that part of ones code of ethics is to recognize that our personal ethics should not always be inflicted on others. We need to respect the decisions that other people make in these challenging situations. Yes, it's still a can of worms, but how strangers can have an opinion about whether it's murder or not is beyond me. Therefore, in my thinking, the decision should be reached by the people that know her and have lived close to her. The ethics of a stranger should be such that they allow for the people close to her to decide what is right, in freedom. Conversely, their decision should not be applied to anyone else. It is, I believe, a matter for the people involved to decide, not strangers. And I for one do not believe that the people involved could not reach consensus. It's difficult beyond imagining, but I think we have done a great disservice to all involved by not supporting this process. Then again, I have no idea how much effort was actually put into reaching a consensus. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Mike Gaskey wrote: The husband is trying to kill her through starvation and deprivation of water. You're goofy! She was "killed" 15 years ago when her brain was starved of oxygen during a heart attack. Her parents are in denial. Keeping a brain-dead human body "alive" for no reason other than to pacify their own feelings is sick. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: Keeping a brain-dead human body "alive" for no reason other than to pacify their own feelings is sick. Where did you read that she was brain dead? Medical science has little real understanding of the brain and I have seen conflicting medical opinions. She has been den Murdering her by denying food and water is sick, pure fucking death by torture. Why do you think they're administering morphine? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Mike Gaskey wrote: What "his wife would have wanted" didn't come to light until several years following her heart attack somehow i don't think that's a bit relevant. but i get the feeling there's something you're trying to insinuate. so, come on out and say it... Mike Gaskey wrote: When the same testimony was reentered in a subsequent legal proceeding and the judge was confronted with the correct timeframe he dismissed it out of hand as immaterial 19 judges. over a period of, what, 8 years ? are you going to argue against each one of their decisions ? were they all wrong ? he thinks he wife wouldn't have wanted to be kept 'alive' this way. turning her over to her parents would be a violation of that desire. i wouldn't do that to my wife. Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: i get the feeling there's something you're trying to insinuate. so, come on out and say it... Something better came along. Chris Losinger wrote: 19 judges. over a period of, what, 8 years ? are you going to argue against each one of their decisions ? were they all wrong ? Nope. Only the original who was closest to the facts. The rest could only deal with the law at their respective level. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Keeping a brain-dead human body "alive" for no reason other than to pacify their own feelings is sick. Where did you read that she was brain dead? Medical science has little real understanding of the brain and I have seen conflicting medical opinions. She has been den Murdering her by denying food and water is sick, pure fucking death by torture. Why do you think they're administering morphine? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: Where did you read that she was brain dead? Every remotely rational medical opinion says her cerebral cortex is mush and only the brain stem (that produces reflex reactions) is still functioning. She has no hope of improvement. Mike Gaskey wrote: Murdering her by denying food and water is sick, pure f***ing death by torture. Only to a being that is self aware and feels pain. Mike Gaskey wrote: Why do you think they're administering morphine? Because they're fools? "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Jim Crafton wrote: That said, I don't understand why he's pushing so hard for this. Ummm... precisely because he DOES love her and KNOWS she didn't want to be kept alive as a vegetable. As her husband, it is his duty to carry out her wishes. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
I agree, but... There is also her family to consider as well, isn't there? Honestly, I don't have a clue what the "right" answer is, or if there even is one. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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Chris Losinger wrote: i get the feeling there's something you're trying to insinuate. so, come on out and say it... Something better came along. Chris Losinger wrote: 19 judges. over a period of, what, 8 years ? are you going to argue against each one of their decisions ? were they all wrong ? Nope. Only the original who was closest to the facts. The rest could only deal with the law at their respective level. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: Something better came along. and what was that ? Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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I agree, but... There is also her family to consider as well, isn't there? Honestly, I don't have a clue what the "right" answer is, or if there even is one. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: There is also her family to consider as well, isn't there? No. US laws favor the spouse. Her family had to make a case of his incompetence if they wanted control. They failed. Only her husband (not the law) needs to consider her families feelings and they his. Their opinions are diametrically opposed, hence the 8 year legal fight. Jim Crafton wrote: Honestly, I don't have a clue what the "right" answer is, or if there even is one. Put yourself in Terri's position and the "right" answer becomes crystal clear. ;) "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Chris Losinger wrote: i get the feeling there's something you're trying to insinuate. so, come on out and say it... Something better came along. Chris Losinger wrote: 19 judges. over a period of, what, 8 years ? are you going to argue against each one of their decisions ? were they all wrong ? Nope. Only the original who was closest to the facts. The rest could only deal with the law at their respective level. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.