More fuel for the America/Europe debate,,,,,
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A bit more fuel for the fire..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4586755.stm[^] I just think we should all launch now. :-D
Pretty interesting article, highlights why (K)arl and I rarely agree. Also explains why Tomaz collects so many 1s. He thinks American. If I took away a net conclusion, it would be that the Euro view is to look to the state to be the communal parent / benefactor where we largely find that abhorent, although that is changing (but causing friction between 2 schools of thought) and we're more willing to let the market dictate. The reason I for one prefer that view is that the market corrects quickly (no self preserving taxing authority to provide revenue) and governing bodies tend to be self preserving and inefficient. Really was a good article. Could have commented on many things but I'll leave that to others. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Pretty interesting article, highlights why (K)arl and I rarely agree. Also explains why Tomaz collects so many 1s. He thinks American. If I took away a net conclusion, it would be that the Euro view is to look to the state to be the communal parent / benefactor where we largely find that abhorent, although that is changing (but causing friction between 2 schools of thought) and we're more willing to let the market dictate. The reason I for one prefer that view is that the market corrects quickly (no self preserving taxing authority to provide revenue) and governing bodies tend to be self preserving and inefficient. Really was a good article. Could have commented on many things but I'll leave that to others. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: Also explains why Tomaz collects so many 1s. He thinks American. I'm guessing there is some truth to that. But I'm also guessing Tomaz is just more unconventional, and more keen to dig where others don't want to look. In doing so he ruffles feathers. Sometimes I just can't tell quite what angle he is even coming from, so can't decide to applaude or beat him with a stick, but you can't help but admire the fact he does makes you think. I've been thinking what was in the article for a while now, trying to understand the whole inter european relationship, and the europan/american relatonship, and all I can think is we are going to get shafted if we don't realise that the east asian economies are the trouble we need to look out for. In a few years if China keeps taking a slice of the manufacturing/services pie the way it is at the moment, its currency will eventlually have to revalue. Currently its about 30% undervalued, which is roughly what manufacturers in the UK are shipping jobs (though shit jobs, but someones job) abroad for. Hoover just did it, closing a plant to go to china for a 20% saving. Whent the chinese currency revalues, we are going to see 30% inflation over night in western economies on manufactured goods. That means there is a good chance it will trigger central banks to hike interest rates like you have not seen in your lifetime. If you have savings its great, if you have debt you are screwed, and if like me you work for an options trading house, its happy times, as turbulent volatile markets (typically crashing) are where we make our money.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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Mike Gaskey wrote: Also explains why Tomaz collects so many 1s. He thinks American. I'm guessing there is some truth to that. But I'm also guessing Tomaz is just more unconventional, and more keen to dig where others don't want to look. In doing so he ruffles feathers. Sometimes I just can't tell quite what angle he is even coming from, so can't decide to applaude or beat him with a stick, but you can't help but admire the fact he does makes you think. I've been thinking what was in the article for a while now, trying to understand the whole inter european relationship, and the europan/american relatonship, and all I can think is we are going to get shafted if we don't realise that the east asian economies are the trouble we need to look out for. In a few years if China keeps taking a slice of the manufacturing/services pie the way it is at the moment, its currency will eventlually have to revalue. Currently its about 30% undervalued, which is roughly what manufacturers in the UK are shipping jobs (though shit jobs, but someones job) abroad for. Hoover just did it, closing a plant to go to china for a 20% saving. Whent the chinese currency revalues, we are going to see 30% inflation over night in western economies on manufactured goods. That means there is a good chance it will trigger central banks to hike interest rates like you have not seen in your lifetime. If you have savings its great, if you have debt you are screwed, and if like me you work for an options trading house, its happy times, as turbulent volatile markets (typically crashing) are where we make our money.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
Giles wrote: China keeps taking a slice of the manufacturing/services pie We're losing manufacturing jobs to China as well as to South America. We're losing service jobs to India. None of which is pleasant to consider. The consequence may be however that the interdependencies created do for the world what the United Nations hasn't (and will never) been able to do. Then consider the revaluation of the Chinese currency. With the level of interdependence as it is today, do you think China could do the 30% upgrade overnight? If they did the flow of jobs reverses. I personally believe we'll see the same thing as regards India. There'll be wage pressure so they can purchase the things they now service (products serviced through call centers) or from IT workers who visit Europe or the US and go home wanting that shiney thing they saw "here". Upward wage pressure combined with the infrastructure costs required to support this out sourcing will pull these jobs back here (and there). This is really over simplified but realistic I believe. The only thing that prevents it is government interference with markets and that is virtually impossible on certain levels long term because of the internet, both because of the ease of doing uncontroled or uncontrolable business transactions and the way it allows diverse cultures to communicate. The latter potential is exhibited in the way China attempts to filter incoming news. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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A bit more fuel for the fire..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4586755.stm[^] I just think we should all launch now. :-D
From the article: I remember having dinner with a German politician who's tongue had been loosened by the wine. What he said wasn't foolish, but it was unusually frank. He said: "Russia and America are both alien influences in Europe and eventually they'll both withdraw from it. Then we can return to our historic destiny." Of course I was intrigued to know what this historic destiny was and eventually he blurted it out. It wasn't particularly shocking, it was that he wanted European political union to be close and produce a state called Europe." Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years. :wtf: I guess my question also addresses the EU constitution. If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? "For a fun 2nd term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase 'contentious but futile protest vote by democrats.' By the time Jeb Bush is elected, you'll be so wasted you won't even notice the war in Syria." Jon Stewart
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Giles wrote: China keeps taking a slice of the manufacturing/services pie We're losing manufacturing jobs to China as well as to South America. We're losing service jobs to India. None of which is pleasant to consider. The consequence may be however that the interdependencies created do for the world what the United Nations hasn't (and will never) been able to do. Then consider the revaluation of the Chinese currency. With the level of interdependence as it is today, do you think China could do the 30% upgrade overnight? If they did the flow of jobs reverses. I personally believe we'll see the same thing as regards India. There'll be wage pressure so they can purchase the things they now service (products serviced through call centers) or from IT workers who visit Europe or the US and go home wanting that shiney thing they saw "here". Upward wage pressure combined with the infrastructure costs required to support this out sourcing will pull these jobs back here (and there). This is really over simplified but realistic I believe. The only thing that prevents it is government interference with markets and that is virtually impossible on certain levels long term because of the internet, both because of the ease of doing uncontroled or uncontrolable business transactions and the way it allows diverse cultures to communicate. The latter potential is exhibited in the way China attempts to filter incoming news. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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From the article: I remember having dinner with a German politician who's tongue had been loosened by the wine. What he said wasn't foolish, but it was unusually frank. He said: "Russia and America are both alien influences in Europe and eventually they'll both withdraw from it. Then we can return to our historic destiny." Of course I was intrigued to know what this historic destiny was and eventually he blurted it out. It wasn't particularly shocking, it was that he wanted European political union to be close and produce a state called Europe." Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years. :wtf: I guess my question also addresses the EU constitution. If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? "For a fun 2nd term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase 'contentious but futile protest vote by democrats.' By the time Jeb Bush is elected, you'll be so wasted you won't even notice the war in Syria." Jon Stewart
Mike Mullikin wrote: What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. Glad to help: The "Hussite king" Jiřà became another beloved king in Czech history. He lead a policy of peace and wished to unite the whole Europe in one peaceful nation. http://www.myczechrepublic.com/basics/hussite_wars.html[^] it was 1458 :-D David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
From the article: I remember having dinner with a German politician who's tongue had been loosened by the wine. What he said wasn't foolish, but it was unusually frank. He said: "Russia and America are both alien influences in Europe and eventually they'll both withdraw from it. Then we can return to our historic destiny." Of course I was intrigued to know what this historic destiny was and eventually he blurted it out. It wasn't particularly shocking, it was that he wanted European political union to be close and produce a state called Europe." Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years. :wtf: I guess my question also addresses the EU constitution. If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? "For a fun 2nd term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase 'contentious but futile protest vote by democrats.' By the time Jeb Bush is elected, you'll be so wasted you won't even notice the war in Syria." Jon Stewart
Mike Mullikin wrote: I guess my question also addresses the EU constitution. If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? I don't think there is one, apart from the emperors who tried to get the whole Europe into one large empire (the Romans, Napoleon, Hitler). Mike Mullikin wrote: Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? Well I think because the European Union is not just a union for economy. It's a political union with, I think, the far goal to unite Europe into one country, kind of like the USA. And of course for a political union or a country you need a constitution. As most countries have. Claudio Claudio's Website Hommingberger Gepardenforelle
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A bit more fuel for the fire..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4586755.stm[^] I just think we should all launch now. :-D
Interesting article. "We still speak of "the West," but I think the expression will soon be politically meaningless.". It is, and it is since 1989. As the author said, "the West" was defined by opposition to USSR and its satellites. So after the collapse of the Iron Curtain, "the West" didn't exist anymore. "as the French persist in saying "the Anglo-Saxons." Why? Because 'we' don't (didn't ?) differentiate between UK and the US: same language, same vision of the World, same will of universal domination (so same opposition to 'our' will of universal domination, IMO the main reason why we are (were?) so opposed). There's an "anglo-saxon" block, a souvenir of the English Empire, constituted by the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and at a lesser degree Canada. The damage this did to relations with America was hastily covered up and a myth was invented to explain the breach. It was said that poor Anthony Eden was physically ill and wasn't thinking straight. Funny, this explanation was invented on your side of the Channel only. On my side, I was taught the Suez expedition was ended because of the pressure of the US, which followed threats made by USSR. One of the consequences was that France decided to become a nuclear power, to be able to have an independent foreign policy. I also totally agree with the comments made by Jeremy Fleming from Belgium.
Fold with us!
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977) -
From the article: I remember having dinner with a German politician who's tongue had been loosened by the wine. What he said wasn't foolish, but it was unusually frank. He said: "Russia and America are both alien influences in Europe and eventually they'll both withdraw from it. Then we can return to our historic destiny." Of course I was intrigued to know what this historic destiny was and eventually he blurted it out. It wasn't particularly shocking, it was that he wanted European political union to be close and produce a state called Europe." Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years. :wtf: I guess my question also addresses the EU constitution. If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? "For a fun 2nd term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase 'contentious but futile protest vote by democrats.' By the time Jeb Bush is elected, you'll be so wasted you won't even notice the war in Syria." Jon Stewart
Mike Mullikin wrote: What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? the Roman Empire, 400 years of peace and prosperity. Czar, Tsar, Kaiser, Emperor, all of these titles are a reminiscence of a past time. Mike Mullikin wrote: If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? IMO, you answered the question: I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years
Fold with us!
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977) -
From the article: I remember having dinner with a German politician who's tongue had been loosened by the wine. What he said wasn't foolish, but it was unusually frank. He said: "Russia and America are both alien influences in Europe and eventually they'll both withdraw from it. Then we can return to our historic destiny." Of course I was intrigued to know what this historic destiny was and eventually he blurted it out. It wasn't particularly shocking, it was that he wanted European political union to be close and produce a state called Europe." Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years. :wtf: I guess my question also addresses the EU constitution. If not solely for economic clout what is the point of an EU constitution? Honestly... why should French law be the same as German, or Swedish, or Spanish? "For a fun 2nd term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase 'contentious but futile protest vote by democrats.' By the time Jeb Bush is elected, you'll be so wasted you won't even notice the war in Syria." Jon Stewart
Mike Mullikin wrote: Maybe I'm missing something. What piece of world history destines European countries to unite into one? I'll be the first one to admit that my European history is weak, so maybe someone else can help. I seem to recall Europe being made up of many different cultures and societies who have warred and squabled with each other for 2000+ years. Which is quite possibly one of the reasons why the European powers rose to such prominence after the reformation and collapse of the holy roman empire. Until then the catholic church generaly held the balance of power in europe. The Ottoman empire also began to decline at around the same period, lessening any external threat to europe as a whole. Competition raises everyone's average game :) (the marxist notion of "progress through conflict" is equaly applicable). Ryan
O fools, awake! The rites you sacred hold Are but a cheat contrived by men of old, Who lusted after wealth and gained their lust And died in baseness—and their law is dust. al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
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Giles wrote: China keeps taking a slice of the manufacturing/services pie We're losing manufacturing jobs to China as well as to South America. We're losing service jobs to India. None of which is pleasant to consider. The consequence may be however that the interdependencies created do for the world what the United Nations hasn't (and will never) been able to do. Then consider the revaluation of the Chinese currency. With the level of interdependence as it is today, do you think China could do the 30% upgrade overnight? If they did the flow of jobs reverses. I personally believe we'll see the same thing as regards India. There'll be wage pressure so they can purchase the things they now service (products serviced through call centers) or from IT workers who visit Europe or the US and go home wanting that shiney thing they saw "here". Upward wage pressure combined with the infrastructure costs required to support this out sourcing will pull these jobs back here (and there). This is really over simplified but realistic I believe. The only thing that prevents it is government interference with markets and that is virtually impossible on certain levels long term because of the internet, both because of the ease of doing uncontroled or uncontrolable business transactions and the way it allows diverse cultures to communicate. The latter potential is exhibited in the way China attempts to filter incoming news. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Not quite. The difference between India and China is that India's currency floats freely without government intervention. China has locked its currency, you cannot trade it, and it locked in artificially low to increase exports.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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Interesting article. "We still speak of "the West," but I think the expression will soon be politically meaningless.". It is, and it is since 1989. As the author said, "the West" was defined by opposition to USSR and its satellites. So after the collapse of the Iron Curtain, "the West" didn't exist anymore. "as the French persist in saying "the Anglo-Saxons." Why? Because 'we' don't (didn't ?) differentiate between UK and the US: same language, same vision of the World, same will of universal domination (so same opposition to 'our' will of universal domination, IMO the main reason why we are (were?) so opposed). There's an "anglo-saxon" block, a souvenir of the English Empire, constituted by the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and at a lesser degree Canada. The damage this did to relations with America was hastily covered up and a myth was invented to explain the breach. It was said that poor Anthony Eden was physically ill and wasn't thinking straight. Funny, this explanation was invented on your side of the Channel only. On my side, I was taught the Suez expedition was ended because of the pressure of the US, which followed threats made by USSR. One of the consequences was that France decided to become a nuclear power, to be able to have an independent foreign policy. I also totally agree with the comments made by Jeremy Fleming from Belgium.
Fold with us!
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)K(arl) wrote: Why? Because 'we' don't (didn't ?) differentiate between UK and the US: same language, same vision of the World, same will of universal domination (so same opposition to 'our' will of universal domination, IMO the main reason why we are (were?) so opposed). Hmm. I really would not say that the UK has the same views as the US. We also have different views though to France and Germany. We don't want to be a federal state, we like being ourselves. One of the big differences between the UK and the US, is that the UK does not like the US melting pot where everyone shares one identity!!! We like our identity. In that sense from the UK's point of view, France and Germany do want the US style melting pot and the UK does not. The triangle is complete. We want France to be French, and the Germany German, we like the EU, but don't want to see our cultures merge as in the US as we like the differnet identities as cultures and history. Thats whats feared in the UK. And its seems now, that France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either, which is part of what we are.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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K(arl) wrote: Why? Because 'we' don't (didn't ?) differentiate between UK and the US: same language, same vision of the World, same will of universal domination (so same opposition to 'our' will of universal domination, IMO the main reason why we are (were?) so opposed). Hmm. I really would not say that the UK has the same views as the US. We also have different views though to France and Germany. We don't want to be a federal state, we like being ourselves. One of the big differences between the UK and the US, is that the UK does not like the US melting pot where everyone shares one identity!!! We like our identity. In that sense from the UK's point of view, France and Germany do want the US style melting pot and the UK does not. The triangle is complete. We want France to be French, and the Germany German, we like the EU, but don't want to see our cultures merge as in the US as we like the differnet identities as cultures and history. Thats whats feared in the UK. And its seems now, that France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either, which is part of what we are.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
Giles wrote: France and Germany do want the US style melting pot and the UK does not I'm :~ about Germany. I'm not also sure the US realizes a melting-pot as we do in France, I rather see that as a superposition of cultures and groups rather than a melting. But maybe it is just another prejudice :) Giles wrote: We want France to be French, and the Germany Germ I'm sure Colin will be glad to hear you want also Scotland to be Scottish :-D Giles wrote: but don't want to see our cultures merge I don't think the EU is about culture merging, far from that. On the contrary, the EU is a way for regional "subcultures" to express themselves better than they could under an 'oppressive' centralized regime. Giles wrote: France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either Why was such a proposal in the constitution anyway? :confused:
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Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977) -
A bit more fuel for the fire..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4586755.stm[^] I just think we should all launch now. :-D
I find it hard to disagree with most of the article. I would only add that even within the nations of "the west" there exist rifts between various factions struggling to take those nations in different cultural directions. The US is especially caught up in such a struggle as those of us on the "right" struggle to maintain those elements of our culture that have made us uniquely American, while those on the "left" seem determined to convert the US into little more than a European-esk social welfare state. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Giles wrote: France and Germany do want the US style melting pot and the UK does not I'm :~ about Germany. I'm not also sure the US realizes a melting-pot as we do in France, I rather see that as a superposition of cultures and groups rather than a melting. But maybe it is just another prejudice :) Giles wrote: We want France to be French, and the Germany Germ I'm sure Colin will be glad to hear you want also Scotland to be Scottish :-D Giles wrote: but don't want to see our cultures merge I don't think the EU is about culture merging, far from that. On the contrary, the EU is a way for regional "subcultures" to express themselves better than they could under an 'oppressive' centralized regime. Giles wrote: France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either Why was such a proposal in the constitution anyway? :confused:
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Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)K(arl) wrote: I'm not also sure the US realizes a melting-pot as we do in France Huh? You're way off the mark. While we've never actually rendered immigrants our history and assumptions are that each immigrant group becomes an integrated part of the whole, adopting and in many cases forcing some level of change to American customs. Recent (last 30 years or so) liberal (USA verson) influence and massive illegal immigration has caused some Balkinization but that is being changed as we speak. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Giles wrote: France and Germany do want the US style melting pot and the UK does not I'm :~ about Germany. I'm not also sure the US realizes a melting-pot as we do in France, I rather see that as a superposition of cultures and groups rather than a melting. But maybe it is just another prejudice :) Giles wrote: We want France to be French, and the Germany Germ I'm sure Colin will be glad to hear you want also Scotland to be Scottish :-D Giles wrote: but don't want to see our cultures merge I don't think the EU is about culture merging, far from that. On the contrary, the EU is a way for regional "subcultures" to express themselves better than they could under an 'oppressive' centralized regime. Giles wrote: France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either Why was such a proposal in the constitution anyway? :confused:
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Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)Maybe you should define what you mean by "melting pot". In the US, we have always understood that to mean that people come here from all over with various cultures and those all end up getting stirred into the mix, but that the soup itself remains "American". That is, we tolerate the occasional cultural differences, but expect everyone who comes here to adapt to the American culture. I can't imagine a nation doing that any better than we have always done. (Traditionally, anyway). "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Giles wrote: France and Germany do want the US style melting pot and the UK does not I'm :~ about Germany. I'm not also sure the US realizes a melting-pot as we do in France, I rather see that as a superposition of cultures and groups rather than a melting. But maybe it is just another prejudice :) Giles wrote: We want France to be French, and the Germany Germ I'm sure Colin will be glad to hear you want also Scotland to be Scottish :-D Giles wrote: but don't want to see our cultures merge I don't think the EU is about culture merging, far from that. On the contrary, the EU is a way for regional "subcultures" to express themselves better than they could under an 'oppressive' centralized regime. Giles wrote: France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either Why was such a proposal in the constitution anyway? :confused:
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Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)K(arl) wrote: I'm sure Colin will be glad to hear you want also Scotland to be Scottish Well thats a different story about someone wanting to break away from an existing Union. France has had sepratists in the south. Spain has it. Scotland has it, and in all these sepratists are in a minority. In Scotland the SNP has 6 of 59 seats, of which one is the smallest constuency in the country of 20,000 agaist an average of 70,000. If they have a majority in Scotland people would have to sit up and take notice, but until then its not happening. K(arl) wrote: I don't think the EU is about culture merging, far from that. On the contrary, the EU is a way for regional "subcultures" to express themselves better than they could under an 'oppressive' centralized regime. The thing is it is about setting up a central regime. K(arl) wrote: France has spoken and decided it does not want to embrace the UK's Anglo Saxon economics either Why was such a proposal in the constitution anyway? Yep. Its was reinforcing the EU free market pricipals, making way for reform of the common agraculture policy, leading to the scrapping of it, where a lot of french farmers do very well out of it. They would be opened up to major international competition.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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K(arl) wrote: I'm not also sure the US realizes a melting-pot as we do in France Huh? You're way off the mark. While we've never actually rendered immigrants our history and assumptions are that each immigrant group becomes an integrated part of the whole, adopting and in many cases forcing some level of change to American customs. Recent (last 30 years or so) liberal (USA verson) influence and massive illegal immigration has caused some Balkinization but that is being changed as we speak. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: You're way off the mark I may be, I don't exclude this is a prejudice. Nonetheless, don't you consider yourself as a Polish-American?
Fold with us!
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977) -
Maybe you should define what you mean by "melting pot". In the US, we have always understood that to mean that people come here from all over with various cultures and those all end up getting stirred into the mix, but that the soup itself remains "American". That is, we tolerate the occasional cultural differences, but expect everyone who comes here to adapt to the American culture. I can't imagine a nation doing that any better than we have always done. (Traditionally, anyway). "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: I can't imagine a nation doing that any better than we have always done You really lack of imagination ;P
Fold with us!
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)