Born into poverty
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Awhile back I asked if the States was a land of opportunity for anyone, born into poverty or not. The unanimous reply was that it was and that Europe and the rest of the world was not. "If you are born into poverty in the US," said one of [the reports] authors, "you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada, which you would think would not be that different." so says this BBC article[^]. Not too detailed but I thought interesting all the same. I am not making a comment on whether I believe it or not, just pointing it out. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
I blame the availability of credit. Which allows people to live beyond there means. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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Awhile back I asked if the States was a land of opportunity for anyone, born into poverty or not. The unanimous reply was that it was and that Europe and the rest of the world was not. "If you are born into poverty in the US," said one of [the reports] authors, "you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada, which you would think would not be that different." so says this BBC article[^]. Not too detailed but I thought interesting all the same. I am not making a comment on whether I believe it or not, just pointing it out. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
More and more, i see knowlege as being the most valuable investment. And yet, our society seems to put precious little evidence on useful knowlege. You want to try and keep a kid poor? Make sure he graduates highschool with no marketable skills or knowlege. You want to make double sure? Fix it so even if he makes it into college, he'll come out just as useless. Voila! Plenty of fodder for the minimum wage service industry, and another generation that'll just barely scrape by. And you know what? It's not a vast conspiracy. It's not something that'll be fixed by wage laws, or free trade, or protectionism, or social welfare programs. It doesn't bother me to hear about the people coming to soup kitchens. That's what charities are there for. It bothers me to see people who can't pay their rent hitting McDonalds for lunch. I've gone months spending less on food per day than they're spending on food for one meal... so i could afford to pay tuition. It bothers me when i see money wasted on fancy clothing, vehicles, housing, instead of on paying off foolish debts. It bothers me when i find myself doing the same thing, without even thinking. It bothers me to see youth and strength and sanity pissed away in exchange for a few hits of meth. It bothers me that in our country, with the phrase "pursuit of happiness" in our founding creed, so many do not seem know what makes them happy.
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I blame the availability of credit. Which allows people to live beyond there means. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
Is credit even available to people born into poverty? Here in South Africa getting credit requires you have money to begin with. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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What!? There really is land beyond the atlantic ocean!? :omg: Good music: In my rosary[^]
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Paul Watson wrote: Not too detailed but I thought interesting all the same. I am not making a comment on whether I believe it or not, just pointing it out. All I saw were opinions, no facts. Nice bunch of words but meaningless otherwise. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Well the article is based on a survey by the Centre for Economic Performance in London. I assume the report on the survey has facts. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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More and more, i see knowlege as being the most valuable investment. And yet, our society seems to put precious little evidence on useful knowlege. You want to try and keep a kid poor? Make sure he graduates highschool with no marketable skills or knowlege. You want to make double sure? Fix it so even if he makes it into college, he'll come out just as useless. Voila! Plenty of fodder for the minimum wage service industry, and another generation that'll just barely scrape by. And you know what? It's not a vast conspiracy. It's not something that'll be fixed by wage laws, or free trade, or protectionism, or social welfare programs. It doesn't bother me to hear about the people coming to soup kitchens. That's what charities are there for. It bothers me to see people who can't pay their rent hitting McDonalds for lunch. I've gone months spending less on food per day than they're spending on food for one meal... so i could afford to pay tuition. It bothers me when i see money wasted on fancy clothing, vehicles, housing, instead of on paying off foolish debts. It bothers me when i find myself doing the same thing, without even thinking. It bothers me to see youth and strength and sanity pissed away in exchange for a few hits of meth. It bothers me that in our country, with the phrase "pursuit of happiness" in our founding creed, so many do not seem know what makes them happy.
I have seen that wherever I have been, it does not seem to be an exclusively U.S. problem at all. Seems to be partly a problem of status anxiety which marketing feeds on. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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I blame the availability of credit. Which allows people to live beyond there means. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
I remember my freshman year of college, I was walking along and saw a booth set up with a whole bunch of t-shirts. I walk up to find that a credit card company was giving out free t-shirts to anyone who signed up for a credit card. Being a college kid, I needed t-shirts, so I signed up. X| I have learned from my mistakes.... :sigh: -J
Think of a computer program. Somewhere, there is one key instruction, and everything else is just functions calling themselves, or brackets billowing out endlessly through an infinite address space. What happens when the brackets collapse? Where's the final 'end if'? Is any of this making sense? -Ford Prefect
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Is credit even available to people born into poverty? Here in South Africa getting credit requires you have money to begin with. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
I think credit is available to the poor also. When I had a supermarket business in Brazil, most of my sales were on credit to the poor. I would have prefered it to be different but the competition dictated this. - But lets say in the US, a couple are living high on credit, then as is oft said "they are one payday away from poverty". Thus a small accident or inconvenience can send them to a poverty status. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
If they haven't been to both countries yet, yes. We can be as ignorant as stereotypical Uh-mericans, but we seem to get around more :)
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
Awhile back I asked if the States was a land of opportunity for anyone, born into poverty or not. The unanimous reply was that it was and that Europe and the rest of the world was not. "If you are born into poverty in the US," said one of [the reports] authors, "you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada, which you would think would not be that different." so says this BBC article[^]. Not too detailed but I thought interesting all the same. I am not making a comment on whether I believe it or not, just pointing it out. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Strangely, though, there seemed to be little resentment or blame of government. American culture is about self-reliance and the individual fighting a way through. Absolutely. The US is, and should be, a place where making bad life decisions has severe negative repercussions, and where making good life decisions has significant rewards. "Do you have it?" I said. "No. No. I don't. I had my opportunities, but I lost." Now, by God, that guy is a true American. He puts the blame for his misfortune squarely where it belongs - on himself, not the government, or his neighbors, or religion or Bush. All I can say is that I have never seen anyone in the US, regardless of their original situation, fail to achieve at least a middle class life style if they applied themselve and didn't go out of their way to screw their lives up. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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More and more, i see knowlege as being the most valuable investment. And yet, our society seems to put precious little evidence on useful knowlege. You want to try and keep a kid poor? Make sure he graduates highschool with no marketable skills or knowlege. You want to make double sure? Fix it so even if he makes it into college, he'll come out just as useless. Voila! Plenty of fodder for the minimum wage service industry, and another generation that'll just barely scrape by. And you know what? It's not a vast conspiracy. It's not something that'll be fixed by wage laws, or free trade, or protectionism, or social welfare programs. It doesn't bother me to hear about the people coming to soup kitchens. That's what charities are there for. It bothers me to see people who can't pay their rent hitting McDonalds for lunch. I've gone months spending less on food per day than they're spending on food for one meal... so i could afford to pay tuition. It bothers me when i see money wasted on fancy clothing, vehicles, housing, instead of on paying off foolish debts. It bothers me when i find myself doing the same thing, without even thinking. It bothers me to see youth and strength and sanity pissed away in exchange for a few hits of meth. It bothers me that in our country, with the phrase "pursuit of happiness" in our founding creed, so many do not seem know what makes them happy.
Yeah, I see that here, too. It took me years to wake up, burn the credit cards, and live within my means. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Strangely, though, there seemed to be little resentment or blame of government. American culture is about self-reliance and the individual fighting a way through. Absolutely. The US is, and should be, a place where making bad life decisions has severe negative repercussions, and where making good life decisions has significant rewards. "Do you have it?" I said. "No. No. I don't. I had my opportunities, but I lost." Now, by God, that guy is a true American. He puts the blame for his misfortune squarely where it belongs - on himself, not the government, or his neighbors, or religion or Bush. All I can say is that I have never seen anyone in the US, regardless of their original situation, fail to achieve at least a middle class life style if they applied themselve and didn't go out of their way to screw their lives up. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: regardless of their original situation, fail to achieve at least a middle class life style if they applied themselve and didn't go out of their way to screw their lives up. Isn't that a self fulfilling prophecy ? Those who don't make it, screwed their lives up ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Well the article is based on a survey by the Centre for Economic Performance in London. I assume the report on the survey has facts. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote: I assume the report on the survey has facts. WMDs?? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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More and more, i see knowlege as being the most valuable investment. And yet, our society seems to put precious little evidence on useful knowlege. You want to try and keep a kid poor? Make sure he graduates highschool with no marketable skills or knowlege. You want to make double sure? Fix it so even if he makes it into college, he'll come out just as useless. Voila! Plenty of fodder for the minimum wage service industry, and another generation that'll just barely scrape by. And you know what? It's not a vast conspiracy. It's not something that'll be fixed by wage laws, or free trade, or protectionism, or social welfare programs. It doesn't bother me to hear about the people coming to soup kitchens. That's what charities are there for. It bothers me to see people who can't pay their rent hitting McDonalds for lunch. I've gone months spending less on food per day than they're spending on food for one meal... so i could afford to pay tuition. It bothers me when i see money wasted on fancy clothing, vehicles, housing, instead of on paying off foolish debts. It bothers me when i find myself doing the same thing, without even thinking. It bothers me to see youth and strength and sanity pissed away in exchange for a few hits of meth. It bothers me that in our country, with the phrase "pursuit of happiness" in our founding creed, so many do not seem know what makes them happy.
Shog9 wrote: i see knowlege as being the most valuable investment. well done, and very incisive. I would like to take exception to the statement I've highlighted. My personal belief, for what it is worth, is that what must come first is ambition to achieve. That ambition can then be fueled by education, either formal or the hard knocks variety. Ambition, a drive to succeed, is a character trait that is either intrinsic in a personality or is communicated by parents who pay attention and reward tiny successes as a child grows. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Yeah, I was just asking myself the same question. It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. But I suspect that is a universal problem, and has NOTHING to do with the ability of those poor people who want to break the cycle from doing so. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. Being an absolute expert on the issue after my 29 months working for Mission Australia (kuntz) with Work For the Dole I offer this observation. If the welfare recipient (Dole Bludger to you and me (phuck off PC pussies, I was a dole bludger for 8.5 months myself)) is a first generation bludger (ie. only one in their family on benefits) they are more likely to use the time to get on their feet and get a job. If they are second or third generation bludger they have never seen a family member go to work so the idea is foreign and abhorent to them and they don't try. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar? You look the same, sound the same, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Personally I can't tell the difference when talking to either of you, I have pissed of several Canadians over the years by calling them Yanks. I suppose that the Yanks would b equally pissed to be called a Canuck but since they quite heavily out number you statistically I (along with everyone else) will guess Yamk first. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Christian Graus wrote: It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. Being an absolute expert on the issue after my 29 months working for Mission Australia (kuntz) with Work For the Dole I offer this observation. If the welfare recipient (Dole Bludger to you and me (phuck off PC pussies, I was a dole bludger for 8.5 months myself)) is a first generation bludger (ie. only one in their family on benefits) they are more likely to use the time to get on their feet and get a job. If they are second or third generation bludger they have never seen a family member go to work so the idea is foreign and abhorent to them and they don't try. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote: If they are second or third generation bludger they have never seen a family member go to work so the idea is foreign and abhorent to them and they don't try. Yeah, having been on the dole for longer than 8 months myself ( many moons ago ) and living in an area of 4th generation dole bludgers, I'd say this is absolutely true. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
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Awhile back I asked if the States was a land of opportunity for anyone, born into poverty or not. The unanimous reply was that it was and that Europe and the rest of the world was not. "If you are born into poverty in the US," said one of [the reports] authors, "you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada, which you would think would not be that different." so says this BBC article[^]. Not too detailed but I thought interesting all the same. I am not making a comment on whether I believe it or not, just pointing it out. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Yeah, I was just asking myself the same question. It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. But I suspect that is a universal problem, and has NOTHING to do with the ability of those poor people who want to break the cycle from doing so. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
parasites which profit on the hard work of others, but there are people who need it and do look for a job, should those people be punished for the actions of the others? I think it's better that the government is more strict and tries to check whether or not a person deserves wellfare... No hurries, no worries.