Born into poverty
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar? You look the same, sound the same, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Personally I can't tell the difference when talking to either of you, I have pissed of several Canadians over the years by calling them Yanks. I suppose that the Yanks would b equally pissed to be called a Canuck but since they quite heavily out number you statistically I (along with everyone else) will guess Yamk first. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Christian Graus wrote: It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. Being an absolute expert on the issue after my 29 months working for Mission Australia (kuntz) with Work For the Dole I offer this observation. If the welfare recipient (Dole Bludger to you and me (phuck off PC pussies, I was a dole bludger for 8.5 months myself)) is a first generation bludger (ie. only one in their family on benefits) they are more likely to use the time to get on their feet and get a job. If they are second or third generation bludger they have never seen a family member go to work so the idea is foreign and abhorent to them and they don't try. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote: If they are second or third generation bludger they have never seen a family member go to work so the idea is foreign and abhorent to them and they don't try. Yeah, having been on the dole for longer than 8 months myself ( many moons ago ) and living in an area of 4th generation dole bludgers, I'd say this is absolutely true. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
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Awhile back I asked if the States was a land of opportunity for anyone, born into poverty or not. The unanimous reply was that it was and that Europe and the rest of the world was not. "If you are born into poverty in the US," said one of [the reports] authors, "you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada, which you would think would not be that different." so says this BBC article[^]. Not too detailed but I thought interesting all the same. I am not making a comment on whether I believe it or not, just pointing it out. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Yeah, I was just asking myself the same question. It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. But I suspect that is a universal problem, and has NOTHING to do with the ability of those poor people who want to break the cycle from doing so. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
parasites which profit on the hard work of others, but there are people who need it and do look for a job, should those people be punished for the actions of the others? I think it's better that the government is more strict and tries to check whether or not a person deserves wellfare... No hurries, no worries.
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
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John Cardinal wrote: What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar? You look the same, sound the same, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Personally I can't tell the difference when talking to either of you, I have pissed of several Canadians over the years by calling them Yanks. I suppose that the Yanks would b equally pissed to be called a Canuck but since they quite heavily out number you statistically I (along with everyone else) will guess Yamk first. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
I have to wait till a Canadian says 'out before I can be sure. It must seem pretty sad to them that we, in the UK , are so bad, but an American told me once that they cant distinguish between english and australian accents! And that to us seems totally rediculous. Nunc est bibendum!
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parasites which profit on the hard work of others, but there are people who need it and do look for a job, should those people be punished for the actions of the others? I think it's better that the government is more strict and tries to check whether or not a person deserves wellfare... No hurries, no worries.
I find it hard to get really worried about a milion people being given 150 pounds a week say. That money gets fed into the very bottom of the economy and so is far more effective than any government 'job creation scheme', where a far greater percentage of the money gets absorbed at a higher level, at keeping an economy going. And lets face it, economy is all about how fast money circulates, and making sure that all corners of scoiety get their part of that flow. I would be far more worried by other government expenditure, and wastage and how beneficial that is for the economy. Nunc est bibendum!
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I find it hard to get really worried about a milion people being given 150 pounds a week say. That money gets fed into the very bottom of the economy and so is far more effective than any government 'job creation scheme', where a far greater percentage of the money gets absorbed at a higher level, at keeping an economy going. And lets face it, economy is all about how fast money circulates, and making sure that all corners of scoiety get their part of that flow. I would be far more worried by other government expenditure, and wastage and how beneficial that is for the economy. Nunc est bibendum!
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That would be because of the many hand-outs that the poverty stricken receive by the US/State governments. While some may use the welfare/foodstamps the way they were intended - as a temporary solution - some develop a dependence on them. It's easier to stay home and collect tax-payer funded aid than to go out and find a job or two.
You will have to look very hard through the queues of benefit claiments to find anyone who wants to live in poverty. The problem is not in giving the support, or receiving it, it is in not following it up or being able to follow it up with practical help like training programs, industry placements, or education.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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I find it hard to get really worried about a milion people being given 150 pounds a week say. That money gets fed into the very bottom of the economy and so is far more effective than any government 'job creation scheme', where a far greater percentage of the money gets absorbed at a higher level, at keeping an economy going. And lets face it, economy is all about how fast money circulates, and making sure that all corners of scoiety get their part of that flow. I would be far more worried by other government expenditure, and wastage and how beneficial that is for the economy. Nunc est bibendum!
fat_boy wrote: I find it hard to get really worried about a milion people being given 150 pounds a week say. In the UK, which you are a self-proclaimed expert on, you don't get £150 a week, you get about £45. If you inlcude the exenses within the civil service of providing that £45 a week however then you are probably looking close to that £150 figure. :doh:
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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Paul Watson wrote: even Canada, which you would think would not be that different What the hell? Why not? Of course Canada is very different than the U.S. Do Europeans really think they are similar?
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: Do Europeans really think they are similar? I'm not a European, I'm English, but I most people I know who have expressed any opinion on it* believe you to be very similar in culture, but speaking French. ;P * which isn't many, I'll admit, despite what some people will tell you Canada, America, or anything outside of English football clubs and supermodels isn't a popular topic over here.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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so, when the US provides aid to low-income familes, those families become dependent on the govt forever. but when the other countries Paul mention (all quasi-socialist hell-holes, of course) do it, familes don't. makes perfect sense to me. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
I didn't say ALL families - just some.
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Christian Graus wrote: It's certainly the case in Oz that a lot of poor people never look for work, they are stuck in a rut of welfare. Being an absolute expert on the issue after my 29 months working for Mission Australia (kuntz) with Work For the Dole I offer this observation. If the welfare recipient (Dole Bludger to you and me (phuck off PC pussies, I was a dole bludger for 8.5 months myself)) is a first generation bludger (ie. only one in their family on benefits) they are more likely to use the time to get on their feet and get a job. If they are second or third generation bludger they have never seen a family member go to work so the idea is foreign and abhorent to them and they don't try. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
My point exactly.
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I didn't say ALL families - just some.
i didn't say "all" either. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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parasites which profit on the hard work of others, but there are people who need it and do look for a job, should those people be punished for the actions of the others? I think it's better that the government is more strict and tries to check whether or not a person deserves wellfare... No hurries, no worries.
V. wrote: should those people be punished for the actions of the others? No. V. wrote: I think it's better that the government is more strict and tries to check whether or not a person deserves wellfare... This is a contradiction. The only way for the system to exclude more people who don't deserve welfare is to either exclude people who do, or spend more than welfare costs on policing it. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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fat_boy wrote: I find it hard to get really worried about a milion people being given 150 pounds a week say. In the UK, which you are a self-proclaimed expert on, you don't get £150 a week, you get about £45. If you inlcude the exenses within the civil service of providing that £45 a week however then you are probably looking close to that £150 figure. :doh:
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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'self-proclaimed expert' Should hope so, I was born in Newton and lived in the UK till I was 35. No, the 150 refers to dole + housing benefit. Nunc est bibendum!
fat_boy wrote: Should hope so, I was born in Newton and lived in the UK till I was 35. Yep, that makes you an expert on the country, you should run for Prime Minister. fat_boy wrote: the 150 refers to dole + housing benefit You can get housing and council benefit without being unemployed, and are not guaranteed to receive it when you are unemployed, so I don't count that as an unemployment benefit any more than a disability allowance or family tax credits.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)