The rise of neosocialist extremism in Germany
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Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
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Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
A more objective view[^] And regarding your gloomy view of the "Linke" - while I still wonder what kind of person votes for the SED[^] (the "Linke" is its direct successor), they are, in fact, mostly harmless. And, fortunately, none of the other parties want to have something to do with them (at least that's what they have been telling us all the time :~ ).
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson) -
A more objective view[^] And regarding your gloomy view of the "Linke" - while I still wonder what kind of person votes for the SED[^] (the "Linke" is its direct successor), they are, in fact, mostly harmless. And, fortunately, none of the other parties want to have something to do with them (at least that's what they have been telling us all the time :~ ).
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson)Arnd H. wrote: A more objective view I don't think this differs from my projections, except in my speculation about the possible consequences of coalitions. The grand coalition will lead a politics of status quo which will lead to gradual economic collapse and more extremism. The red red green coalition would legalize extremism. There are no good options on German desk, except for Neuwahl. The situation is relatively stable, but will be much more difficult and dangerous in four years, if no reforms are undertaken. I wouldn't take European peace for granted under such circumstances. Objectivity unfortunately seems to be a matter of taste. Here are several first pagers from the quoted "more objective source" (Der Spiegel). Small Sheriff[^] Iran: the next war[^] Eyes shut[^] Will America once again be democratic? (five to twelve for Bush)[^] California, the rotten paradise[^] Linke built campaign on Neidkultur and Angstpolitik (SPD did too). The extremists received over 8% of votes - this is just like having the nazis in the parliament. It is a mistake to underestimate this threat to democracy. Things change. If five years ago one would describe the scope of anti-Americanism in Germany today one would conclude that such development is not possible. Tomaz
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Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
Germany's Schroeder Refuses to Concede[^] - any German hangng chads? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
Nice horror story! I'm from germany, and I can say that no extremism is rising here. People are not voting for the neosocialists because they think it's the right choice. They vote so because they have been disappointed by all the other parties and want to protest against all the politicians not being able to improve the situation. This election is an act of protest - noting more and nothing less! So I propose you just stop posting about things you don't know a thing about! Don't try it, just do it! ;-)
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Arnd H. wrote: A more objective view I don't think this differs from my projections, except in my speculation about the possible consequences of coalitions. The grand coalition will lead a politics of status quo which will lead to gradual economic collapse and more extremism. The red red green coalition would legalize extremism. There are no good options on German desk, except for Neuwahl. The situation is relatively stable, but will be much more difficult and dangerous in four years, if no reforms are undertaken. I wouldn't take European peace for granted under such circumstances. Objectivity unfortunately seems to be a matter of taste. Here are several first pagers from the quoted "more objective source" (Der Spiegel). Small Sheriff[^] Iran: the next war[^] Eyes shut[^] Will America once again be democratic? (five to twelve for Bush)[^] California, the rotten paradise[^] Linke built campaign on Neidkultur and Angstpolitik (SPD did too). The extremists received over 8% of votes - this is just like having the nazis in the parliament. It is a mistake to underestimate this threat to democracy. Things change. If five years ago one would describe the scope of anti-Americanism in Germany today one would conclude that such development is not possible. Tomaz
I don't think this differs from my projections Not much, though I think your description of the SED PDS left party is exaggerated. They pose no immediate threat, they are just a bunch of populists and disappointed socialists who have no purpose but opposition. They merely make things more difficult for "serious poiliticians" (though you might doubt there are (m)any at all). The grand coalition will lead a politics of status quo Most probably. which will lead to gradual economic collapse and more extremism. At least disappointment. Whether disappointment leads to extremism is determined mainly by the alternatives - when there are none, yes, it will lead to extremism. Let's hope there will be some politicians who show better alternatives. The red red green coalition would legalize extremism. The left party forming part of the government would at least be a compelling reason for emigration. There are no good options on German desk, except for Neuwahl. Have reelections until the voters vote the right way? I don't see this as very democratic. <utopia mode> IMHO, the perfect solution would be a government made up of independant experts, maybe selected by all the parties in the parliament. They would at least know what they are doing, they would not be influenced too much by partisan politics, and they would look for varying majorities for their projects in parliament. </utopia mode> The situation is relatively stable, but will be much more difficult and dangerous in four years, if no reforms are undertaken. Agreed, at least it will be more difficult. Dangerous, see above. I wouldn't take European peace for granted under such circumstances. I think (hope?) the european idea is already so deep in the hearts and minds of people that European Peace is not at risk in the foreseeable future. And the left party is definitely not in a position to be a threat to european peace. Linke built campaign on Neidkultur and Angstpolitik (SPD did too). And Neidkultur is the primary problem of this country, it impedes almost every reform. The extremists received over 8% of votes In my electoral district, they received 20,9%. I hope the only reason is that Oskar Lafontaine as a person is traditionally very popular here... :~ It is a mistake to underestimate this threat to democracy. Things change. If five years ago one would describe the scope of anti-Americanism in Germany today one w
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Germany's Schroeder Refuses to Concede[^] - any German hangng chads? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Nice horror story! I'm from germany, and I can say that no extremism is rising here. People are not voting for the neosocialists because they think it's the right choice. They vote so because they have been disappointed by all the other parties and want to protest against all the politicians not being able to improve the situation. This election is an act of protest - noting more and nothing less! So I propose you just stop posting about things you don't know a thing about! Don't try it, just do it! ;-)
Alexander, I actually travel to Germany quite often, have friends there (I used to live in Munich) and scan your news - I know what I am talking about. Perhaps your tolerance of leftist extremism is very high and you don't perceive certain acts as extreme? Linke is definitely extreme party and I belive Germany should find itself in international isolation if Linke helps shape the govermnent. Tomaz
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Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
(1) The "neosocialist 'Linke'" did NOT exist 3 years ago. You are comparing to the results of the PDS which was virtually "unelectable" in west germany. So: doubled votes by quadrupling target audience. What a danger! (2) The greens are dominated by the Realo wing, which is dominated by conservative preservative regulators (rather than bearded pinko hippie treehuggers) (3) The SPD is as far from red as a non-functional traffic light. Under Schroeder, they became more a "center people's party", than a red threat. (4) The FDP - closest to your ideas of economy - increased from 7.5 to 10% (5) The Neonazi sinks (REP and NPD) have only marginal results at least get your facts right. But with one thing you are right: there are no good options on the table.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
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Germany's Schroeder Refuses to Concede[^] - any German hangng chads? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Germany's Schroeder Refuses to Concede[^] - any German hangng chads? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
current polls show that SPD vs. CDU is very close (currently one poll even says SPD is in front, and as Arnd said, 217.000 votes will be cast in two weeks) The problem is not so much who of these two: but to build a coalition that is (a) functional and (b) can withstand the CDU-dominated Bundesrat. But - resounding a previous conversation - definitely interesting times.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -- modified at 15:58 Sunday 18th September, 2005 -
Let's keep in mind that 220000 people in Dresden have to wait two more weeks until they can vote - this might become very interesting.
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson)It's currently very tight - it might even be electoral district 160 is deciding on the chancellor. Scary.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -- modified at 16:14 Sunday 18th September, 2005 -
It's currently very tight - it might even be electoral district 160 is deciding on the chancellor. Scary.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -- modified at 16:14 Sunday 18th September, 2005peterchen wrote: it might even be 160 is deciding on the cnancellor wow peterchen wrote: Scary agreed. ps. good luck, "scary" might under state it. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Let's keep in mind that 220000 people in Dresden have to wait two more weeks until they can vote - this might become very interesting.
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson)Arnd H. wrote: this might become very interesting. to say the very least. Sounds like there's is a lot on the line. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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A more objective view[^] And regarding your gloomy view of the "Linke" - while I still wonder what kind of person votes for the SED[^] (the "Linke" is its direct successor), they are, in fact, mostly harmless. And, fortunately, none of the other parties want to have something to do with them (at least that's what they have been telling us all the time :~ ).
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson)Arnd H. wrote: while I still wonder what kind of person votes for the SED (1) old "Kader" which have lost their life achievements (2) young idealistic high school adolescents. What little I know of them, they don't have a problem with getting new people, but with keepng them when they grow out of their revoluzzer phase. And with bridging the age gap. NB: Funny that Ossi Lafontaine got them out of the "Ossi Party" corner :rolleyes:
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
peterchen wrote: it might even be 160 is deciding on the cnancellor wow peterchen wrote: Scary agreed. ps. good luck, "scary" might under state it. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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I don't think this differs from my projections Not much, though I think your description of the SED PDS left party is exaggerated. They pose no immediate threat, they are just a bunch of populists and disappointed socialists who have no purpose but opposition. They merely make things more difficult for "serious poiliticians" (though you might doubt there are (m)any at all). The grand coalition will lead a politics of status quo Most probably. which will lead to gradual economic collapse and more extremism. At least disappointment. Whether disappointment leads to extremism is determined mainly by the alternatives - when there are none, yes, it will lead to extremism. Let's hope there will be some politicians who show better alternatives. The red red green coalition would legalize extremism. The left party forming part of the government would at least be a compelling reason for emigration. There are no good options on German desk, except for Neuwahl. Have reelections until the voters vote the right way? I don't see this as very democratic. <utopia mode> IMHO, the perfect solution would be a government made up of independant experts, maybe selected by all the parties in the parliament. They would at least know what they are doing, they would not be influenced too much by partisan politics, and they would look for varying majorities for their projects in parliament. </utopia mode> The situation is relatively stable, but will be much more difficult and dangerous in four years, if no reforms are undertaken. Agreed, at least it will be more difficult. Dangerous, see above. I wouldn't take European peace for granted under such circumstances. I think (hope?) the european idea is already so deep in the hearts and minds of people that European Peace is not at risk in the foreseeable future. And the left party is definitely not in a position to be a threat to european peace. Linke built campaign on Neidkultur and Angstpolitik (SPD did too). And Neidkultur is the primary problem of this country, it impedes almost every reform. The extremists received over 8% of votes In my electoral district, they received 20,9%. I hope the only reason is that Oskar Lafontaine as a person is traditionally very popular here... :~ It is a mistake to underestimate this threat to democracy. Things change. If five years ago one would describe the scope of anti-Americanism in Germany today one w
If I may ask - where are you from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
If I may ask - where are you from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenSaarbrücken[^] it would seem. :) Good music: In my rosary[^]
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(1) The "neosocialist 'Linke'" did NOT exist 3 years ago. You are comparing to the results of the PDS which was virtually "unelectable" in west germany. So: doubled votes by quadrupling target audience. What a danger! (2) The greens are dominated by the Realo wing, which is dominated by conservative preservative regulators (rather than bearded pinko hippie treehuggers) (3) The SPD is as far from red as a non-functional traffic light. Under Schroeder, they became more a "center people's party", than a red threat. (4) The FDP - closest to your ideas of economy - increased from 7.5 to 10% (5) The Neonazi sinks (REP and NPD) have only marginal results at least get your facts right. But with one thing you are right: there are no good options on the table.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: at least get your facts right. Since when did that ever stopped him? :-D Good music: In my rosary[^]
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Saarbrücken[^] it would seem. :) Good music: In my rosary[^]
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Saarbrücken Correct. Although I wish to add :rolleyes: that although Saarbrücken is a nice city (at least in summer), I have been living here for a little less than a year now and, at heart, am more Ostfriese than Saarländer :)
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson)
