Do your research BEFORE posting
-
:mad: Far too many people are logging incredibly basic questions on this board and/or asking for help without doing any requisite research. My time and responses will be directed to those that I decide deserve to be answered from now on. Demonstrate that YOU have done something to assist yourself and I'll provide help accordingly. It's just not worth it otherrwise. (That feels better :-D) ...Steve -- modified at 1:38 Wednesday 21st September, 2005
I must admit that I agree completely. I'm no expert in this field (yet), and when I stumble I feel it is normal etiquette that you actually try to solve your problem before hand, as you would do if having to ask a real life person. Search functions and search engines are the best tool before actually asking ones question, but to many people use the Internet as they would not behave in real life forgetting that it is real life people, often just as - or more - bussy then themselves in. Real life people taking the time to try and help others. I wonder how many people would go up to somebody in real life and ask the question they do on such forums as this, withouth actually trying themselves first. Sure one could always ignore the "stupid" questioins, but it is still "noise" as you try to read a forum for information/help/inspiration as I personally do, and stupid questions tend to scare away the people who actually know something about topics, making it harder for the rest of us to actually get qualified help when we are truely stuck. I come here because it is a great ressource for help with hard topics, not because I'm to lazy to look up in a textbook or do a simple google/alltheweb/yahoo (or insert your favorite searchengine here). Cudos to the people who take the time to answer peoples question, and boo to the ones who post before they think. Oh, and would people please stop saying it is urgent or important. Everything is urgent or important. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
-
:mad: Far too many people are logging incredibly basic questions on this board and/or asking for help without doing any requisite research. My time and responses will be directed to those that I decide deserve to be answered from now on. Demonstrate that YOU have done something to assist yourself and I'll provide help accordingly. It's just not worth it otherrwise. (That feels better :-D) ...Steve -- modified at 1:38 Wednesday 21st September, 2005
Perhaps what is needed are at least two levels of forum One for "worthy" questions and one for "easy if you know the answer" questions. I often find that books and help systems like to answer their own questions, but not mine. Why should I spend hours searching if someone would be happy to help ? I don't even wear my hair shirt these days ! A 'simple questions' forum would give those who are not experts a chance to help their fellow man, or indeed woman. > too many people use the Internet as they would >not behave in real life I think today the internet is part of real life, it helps real people communicate.
-
Perhaps what is needed are at least two levels of forum One for "worthy" questions and one for "easy if you know the answer" questions. I often find that books and help systems like to answer their own questions, but not mine. Why should I spend hours searching if someone would be happy to help ? I don't even wear my hair shirt these days ! A 'simple questions' forum would give those who are not experts a chance to help their fellow man, or indeed woman. > too many people use the Internet as they would >not behave in real life I think today the internet is part of real life, it helps real people communicate.
forecourt wrote: Why should I spend hours searching if someone would be happy to help ? Because increasingly those that give up their free time to help will get irritated and go away which is bad for everyone, not just the selfish individual that has an urgent emergency problem that they could have forseen if they had done even the most basic research in the first place. forecourt wrote: I often find that books and help systems like to answer their own questions, but not mine. While no book or help system is 100% perfect, they answer the majority of my questions if I am willing to look hard enough. I have stacks of books at home where I've annotated the index and contents pages (as well as the pages in between) with notes pointing to other books in my library. Research often pays great dividends. However, after you have exhausted your research efforts then it is appropriate to post on a forum. Then you can say, I've looked here and there and I found some information that helps a little but I need help to get over the problem. That way you show that you are committed enough to your problem that you have spent some actual real effort to figure it out yourself.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
-
forecourt wrote: Why should I spend hours searching if someone would be happy to help ? Because increasingly those that give up their free time to help will get irritated and go away which is bad for everyone, not just the selfish individual that has an urgent emergency problem that they could have forseen if they had done even the most basic research in the first place. forecourt wrote: I often find that books and help systems like to answer their own questions, but not mine. While no book or help system is 100% perfect, they answer the majority of my questions if I am willing to look hard enough. I have stacks of books at home where I've annotated the index and contents pages (as well as the pages in between) with notes pointing to other books in my library. Research often pays great dividends. However, after you have exhausted your research efforts then it is appropriate to post on a forum. Then you can say, I've looked here and there and I found some information that helps a little but I need help to get over the problem. That way you show that you are committed enough to your problem that you have spent some actual real effort to figure it out yourself.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
My comments are based on the assumption of a two speed system. We all know when it's a simple question, so go to the "silly question" forum first. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: those that give up their free time to help will get irritated and go away If those helping expect simple questions they won't be irritated. Actually they get a chance to help. This = "feel good" Colin Angus Mackay wrote: While no book or help system is 100% perfect, they answer the majority of my questions if I am willing to look hard enough. I have stacks of books at home where I've annotated the index and contents pages (as well as the pages in between) with notes pointing to other books in my library. Research often pays great dividends. mmmmm. where to start ? I know ... Good for you :-) Not everyone has the space or money for all those books. I use several languages and operating systems.. each needing it's own mass of books ! The purpose of research is to get an answer, often asking a friend is the place to start, not a last resort.
-
:mad: Far too many people are logging incredibly basic questions on this board and/or asking for help without doing any requisite research. My time and responses will be directed to those that I decide deserve to be answered from now on. Demonstrate that YOU have done something to assist yourself and I'll provide help accordingly. It's just not worth it otherrwise. (That feels better :-D) ...Steve -- modified at 1:38 Wednesday 21st September, 2005
Steve Pullan wrote: Far too many people are logging incredibly basic questions on this board and/or asking for help without doing any requisite research. Funny, this seems to happen in the VB.NET board more than anywhere else.... Although, someone on a Microsoft board just told me that C# is faster than VB.NET, because there are less characters in the code, and therefore the exe is smaller. So I guess that dumb is not a limited commodity. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
My comments are based on the assumption of a two speed system. We all know when it's a simple question, so go to the "silly question" forum first. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: those that give up their free time to help will get irritated and go away If those helping expect simple questions they won't be irritated. Actually they get a chance to help. This = "feel good" Colin Angus Mackay wrote: While no book or help system is 100% perfect, they answer the majority of my questions if I am willing to look hard enough. I have stacks of books at home where I've annotated the index and contents pages (as well as the pages in between) with notes pointing to other books in my library. Research often pays great dividends. mmmmm. where to start ? I know ... Good for you :-) Not everyone has the space or money for all those books. I use several languages and operating systems.. each needing it's own mass of books ! The purpose of research is to get an answer, often asking a friend is the place to start, not a last resort.
forecourt wrote: We all know when it's a simple question, so go to the "silly question" forum first. I don't mind the simple questions - sometimes a person just needs a pointer to the right bit of documentation. It is the silly questions that irritate me. Silly being a question where it is obvious that the person has done no research and does not intend to, or the question that ends in a imperative demand for a fully working bit of code that meets their criteria. forecourt wrote: Not everyone has the space or money for all those books. Well, 2 books is all it takes to have a library. I suppose I have been collecting for a while - my dad keeps commenting on whether my house is strong enough. forecourt wrote: each needing it's own mass of books The best "book" for Microsoft development is MSDN - and that is freely available online or from a DVD install. Even the articles from MSDN magazine make it to the website. forecourt wrote: The purpose of research is to get an answer, often asking a friend is the place to start, not a last resort. Well, I would say it is the place to start if you don't know where to start. If all you ever do is "ask a friend" you won't learn much - I couldn't begin to work out how much extra I've learned on the way to the answer by reading up on the subject myself.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
-
so, why do you loose your time desperately writing this post ? just ignore those whose question suck, vote down, and let them with their problem... don't you agree ?
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
[toxcct][VisualCalc]toxcct wrote: so, why do you loose your time desperately writing this post ? So that I can vent some steam... I have to take it out on somebody :-) toxcct wrote: just ignore those whose question suck, vote down, and let them with their problem... That's what I said I'd do. I do realize that there are many people out there who just need that little bit of a push in the right direction - but they must first do their own homework before calling out for help. toxcct wrote: don't you agree ? Yes, sure do. ...Steve
-
I must admit that I agree completely. I'm no expert in this field (yet), and when I stumble I feel it is normal etiquette that you actually try to solve your problem before hand, as you would do if having to ask a real life person. Search functions and search engines are the best tool before actually asking ones question, but to many people use the Internet as they would not behave in real life forgetting that it is real life people, often just as - or more - bussy then themselves in. Real life people taking the time to try and help others. I wonder how many people would go up to somebody in real life and ask the question they do on such forums as this, withouth actually trying themselves first. Sure one could always ignore the "stupid" questioins, but it is still "noise" as you try to read a forum for information/help/inspiration as I personally do, and stupid questions tend to scare away the people who actually know something about topics, making it harder for the rest of us to actually get qualified help when we are truely stuck. I come here because it is a great ressource for help with hard topics, not because I'm to lazy to look up in a textbook or do a simple google/alltheweb/yahoo (or insert your favorite searchengine here). Cudos to the people who take the time to answer peoples question, and boo to the ones who post before they think. Oh, and would people please stop saying it is urgent or important. Everything is urgent or important. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
I too like to contribute and help where possible (like many I scan The Code Project in between my other tasks) and use it as a resource for the tough problems on which I'm working. It's great to be part of a group such as this and I firmly believe that those who receive benefits from this site should 'give back' in the way of help to others. The line must be drawn though when one sees so many apparent cries for help which have obviously not been researched in the most basic way before putting fingers to the keyboard (i.e. the day before their assignment is due). I am working on a case now for someone on this board and I'm helping because that person has demonstrated that at least they've thought about the problem and got stuck. That's 100% fine by me and the way it should be - I am very happy to help. I'll take the advice of some others here and set my noise tolerance level down a notch so that I won't see the garbage posts. Thanks for your words of support. At least I'm not Robinson Crusoe :-) ...Steve
-
Steve Pullan wrote: Far too many people are logging incredibly basic questions on this board and/or asking for help without doing any requisite research. Funny, this seems to happen in the VB.NET board more than anywhere else.... Although, someone on a Microsoft board just told me that C# is faster than VB.NET, because there are less characters in the code, and therefore the exe is smaller. So I guess that dumb is not a limited commodity. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: Funny, this seems to happen in the VB.NET board more than anywhere else.... I feel a language debate coming on... but I'm not biting :-) Christian Graus wrote: Although, someone on a Microsoft board just told me that C# is faster than VB.NET, because there are less characters in the code, and therefore the exe is smaller. So I guess that dumb is not a limited commodity. I've not heard that one before, but if that is true then it follows that APL (A Programming Language circa 197x? from IBM) crammed more functions into a line of code than any other language that I have used (yes I did use it once), so it must have been much smaller and run a lot faster than any other compiled program in history :-) but you did need a $1 million mainframe upon which to run it! Wonder why I never stuck with it? ;) ...Steve -- modified at 20:11 Wednesday 21st September, 2005
-
forecourt wrote: We all know when it's a simple question, so go to the "silly question" forum first. I don't mind the simple questions - sometimes a person just needs a pointer to the right bit of documentation. It is the silly questions that irritate me. Silly being a question where it is obvious that the person has done no research and does not intend to, or the question that ends in a imperative demand for a fully working bit of code that meets their criteria. forecourt wrote: Not everyone has the space or money for all those books. Well, 2 books is all it takes to have a library. I suppose I have been collecting for a while - my dad keeps commenting on whether my house is strong enough. forecourt wrote: each needing it's own mass of books The best "book" for Microsoft development is MSDN - and that is freely available online or from a DVD install. Even the articles from MSDN magazine make it to the website. forecourt wrote: The purpose of research is to get an answer, often asking a friend is the place to start, not a last resort. Well, I would say it is the place to start if you don't know where to start. If all you ever do is "ask a friend" you won't learn much - I couldn't begin to work out how much extra I've learned on the way to the answer by reading up on the subject myself.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Very well stated Colin. I concur 100%. ...Steve
-
Christian Graus wrote: Funny, this seems to happen in the VB.NET board more than anywhere else.... I feel a language debate coming on... but I'm not biting :-) Christian Graus wrote: Although, someone on a Microsoft board just told me that C# is faster than VB.NET, because there are less characters in the code, and therefore the exe is smaller. So I guess that dumb is not a limited commodity. I've not heard that one before, but if that is true then it follows that APL (A Programming Language circa 197x? from IBM) crammed more functions into a line of code than any other language that I have used (yes I did use it once), so it must have been much smaller and run a lot faster than any other compiled program in history :-) but you did need a $1 million mainframe upon which to run it! Wonder why I never stuck with it? ;) ...Steve -- modified at 20:11 Wednesday 21st September, 2005
Steve Pullan wrote: but I'm not biting Then you get my respect for being the bigger man :-) Steve Pullan wrote: I've not heard that one before No, I think it's indicative of a general lack of knowledge about how a computer remotely works amongst people learning to code nowadays. Not all, but certainly some. This guy was actually experienced in VB, looking to move to C# for a supposed speed increase. Obviously I was polite in explaining it to him, but we've certainly had a laugh in the office about it. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
:mad: Far too many people are logging incredibly basic questions on this board and/or asking for help without doing any requisite research. My time and responses will be directed to those that I decide deserve to be answered from now on. Demonstrate that YOU have done something to assist yourself and I'll provide help accordingly. It's just not worth it otherrwise. (That feels better :-D) ...Steve -- modified at 1:38 Wednesday 21st September, 2005
-
I just thought that I would throw in my two cents worth to this topic. I am new to this (posting!) but I have just been browsing through ALL the topics here 'doing my research' for something I need to be able to do and so far I've scanned/read over 2000 topics, so when I came across this topic it struck me moreso than if I had encountered it earlier in my search. I fully agree that there is no such thing as too simple a question, (Out of the mouths of babes etc etc.) but stupid questions! there should be a law against it. On my researches I sometimes quite happily get sidetracked by 'simple' questions, because they are about using or doing something in a novel way or maybe they are just amusing... More seriously though, because I am new at this I may be way off base here but the one thing that has really hacked me off whilst browsing the topics is where the Topic heading is something useless like Urgent or Please Helppppp! or Stupid question etc etc. but then you have to open the topic to actually see what it is about, which slows down your progress. The idea of Boilerplating could maybe used to advantage here: e.g. Fill a form to do a post, where the querant is asked a couple of simple questions like: Have you tried researching this fully yourself from books or Google search etc? (If no to this refer querant to some respected sources) What Category does your query come under? (and supply a list to pick from) What is your preffered Programming language? Can you give a one-line synopsis of your query? With that taken care of it should enhance everyones level of usage because: 1. You have already made the person take more cognisence of what they really want. 2. You've Catagorised the Question, making it easier to display in the correct place. 3. You've also categorised the programming language. 4. and MOST importantly because of the one-line synopsis it will be now much more efficient to perform a search for help or if you are giving help you will see again more clearly topics you are able to give assistance to. Sorry for being so long winded. Tremonde