super soapbox rant
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Christian Graus wrote: Apparently, the evidence points to legalisation creating an environment where women are further exploited. So I've read during recent debate where I live, anyhow. Interesting: one would have thought the reverse. I wonder how it works in Amsterdam or other places where it is legal and controlled? You'd have thought that pimps would have become redundant and the women freer.
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In theory, I guess. I believe in practice that legalisation creates more demand, and also more supply, which leads to crime in other areas also growing, such as drug use ( and in the context of this thread, while drugs are illegal, they will continue to cause health problems, and also cause people to steal to pay for them ) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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In theory, I guess. I believe in practice that legalisation creates more demand, and also more supply, which leads to crime in other areas also growing, such as drug use ( and in the context of this thread, while drugs are illegal, they will continue to cause health problems, and also cause people to steal to pay for them ) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Who'd a thunk it? I'm sure you're correct but one would have thought that regulation would have driven criminals to explore other avenues that would be more profitable. Perhaps more than one stream of criminal income needs to be addressed at the same time so as to remove the incentive or need for them to be involved in and making money from certain classes of crime. In my mind, for instance, to decriminalise drugs and make them a government controlled monopoly with drugs and paraphernalia cheaply or even freely available would have removed whole areas of crime. Muggings, robberies, burglary where the intent is to acquire money to buy drugs would become pointless. But then I read fat_boys post which utterly dismays me. I simply do not understand drugs or taking or doing anything that could impair your perceptions.
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Who'd a thunk it? I'm sure you're correct but one would have thought that regulation would have driven criminals to explore other avenues that would be more profitable. Perhaps more than one stream of criminal income needs to be addressed at the same time so as to remove the incentive or need for them to be involved in and making money from certain classes of crime. In my mind, for instance, to decriminalise drugs and make them a government controlled monopoly with drugs and paraphernalia cheaply or even freely available would have removed whole areas of crime. Muggings, robberies, burglary where the intent is to acquire money to buy drugs would become pointless. But then I read fat_boys post which utterly dismays me. I simply do not understand drugs or taking or doing anything that could impair your perceptions.
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legalAlien wrote: I simply do not understand drugs or taking or doing anything that could impair your perceptions. Yeah, agreed. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Ok, so I meant to stir things up a bit with my post below but I don't feel that I am doing myself or my cause(s) justice by not fully articulating my thoughts on the subject matter at least once here for everyone to consider. This is a long post, not for the attention deficit folks.. I understand both of my points of concern are non-issues to most US voters (probably where my angst rises from) but I feel if there is to be a more united domestic culture, eventually these issues will have to become more important. Even if it does not effect you, it effects a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens that should be able to come out of the shadows and live their lives without fear. I happened to have chosen a lifestyle that put me at odds from the mainstream and its been a long strange trip ever since. Being on the other side of the law on these issues have given me a very unique insight into just how subtle tyranny can be right in front of a societies own eyes as well as just how relative the concept of freedom is. I smoke marijuana recreationally. I happen to feel from personal experience and observation that marijuana is safer than alcohol so I choose to smoke pot. When others feel like boozing I feel like smoking. It drives me nuts that while we teach in our schools of the failures of our prohibitionist era policies, we preach at the same time that it is wrong to smoke pot due to 'secondary effects'. It is a direct contradiction of values. During prohibition we decided that freedom is paramount and we recognized as a nation this value to our society. We made the detrimental secondary effects everyone was so afraid regarding alcohol illegal for what they were and allowed responsible adults to engage the behavior without breaking the law. It has worked out very well. Sure there are still the associated costs of freedom that irresponsible citizens (ie, drunk drivers, knuckleheads, etc.) make us all pay, but by and large with the alcohol consumed in this nation it is still a small minority of consumers that abuse it to the point of infringing upon the freedom of others. Most importantly we preserved in our approach to alcohol what should be highly regarded in this nation, our value of individual freedom. I think the same approach should be taken with marijuana. There is much more talking points on the issue of legalization. I could fill a book (and hope to) with my analysis and opinions of things relating to marijuana policy and why we should change it but I guess I cant write that boo
my +5 - as an age 60 old coot I don't disagree with anything you've said. Point in fact the war on drugs is a huge drain on our society and economy. As to looking to hookers, pretty big personal (health) risk but agree it should be a personal choice. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore
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Ok, so I meant to stir things up a bit with my post below but I don't feel that I am doing myself or my cause(s) justice by not fully articulating my thoughts on the subject matter at least once here for everyone to consider. This is a long post, not for the attention deficit folks.. I understand both of my points of concern are non-issues to most US voters (probably where my angst rises from) but I feel if there is to be a more united domestic culture, eventually these issues will have to become more important. Even if it does not effect you, it effects a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens that should be able to come out of the shadows and live their lives without fear. I happened to have chosen a lifestyle that put me at odds from the mainstream and its been a long strange trip ever since. Being on the other side of the law on these issues have given me a very unique insight into just how subtle tyranny can be right in front of a societies own eyes as well as just how relative the concept of freedom is. I smoke marijuana recreationally. I happen to feel from personal experience and observation that marijuana is safer than alcohol so I choose to smoke pot. When others feel like boozing I feel like smoking. It drives me nuts that while we teach in our schools of the failures of our prohibitionist era policies, we preach at the same time that it is wrong to smoke pot due to 'secondary effects'. It is a direct contradiction of values. During prohibition we decided that freedom is paramount and we recognized as a nation this value to our society. We made the detrimental secondary effects everyone was so afraid regarding alcohol illegal for what they were and allowed responsible adults to engage the behavior without breaking the law. It has worked out very well. Sure there are still the associated costs of freedom that irresponsible citizens (ie, drunk drivers, knuckleheads, etc.) make us all pay, but by and large with the alcohol consumed in this nation it is still a small minority of consumers that abuse it to the point of infringing upon the freedom of others. Most importantly we preserved in our approach to alcohol what should be highly regarded in this nation, our value of individual freedom. I think the same approach should be taken with marijuana. There is much more talking points on the issue of legalization. I could fill a book (and hope to) with my analysis and opinions of things relating to marijuana policy and why we should change it but I guess I cant write that boo
Regardless of how perfectly any society is structured, your freedom to do something that you would like to do is very likely to be restricted in someway. No social order can give unlimited, carte blache freedom to every one all the time. You simply cannot have civilization without tyranny. Democracy does not change that, it merely changes how the power of tyranny is distributed. So, get used to it, you live in a tyranny, we all do. Those with the power have decided that smoking pot and prostitution should be illegal. If you believe otherwise, than you need to fight for the power to inflict your morality on the rest of us who disagree with you. (I happen to believe that pot is an extremly distructive social evil - I've seen it ruin many lives, just as with prostitution) That is simply how the game is played. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom." -- modified at 10:30 Tuesday 27th September, 2005
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Ok, so I meant to stir things up a bit with my post below but I don't feel that I am doing myself or my cause(s) justice by not fully articulating my thoughts on the subject matter at least once here for everyone to consider. This is a long post, not for the attention deficit folks.. I understand both of my points of concern are non-issues to most US voters (probably where my angst rises from) but I feel if there is to be a more united domestic culture, eventually these issues will have to become more important. Even if it does not effect you, it effects a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens that should be able to come out of the shadows and live their lives without fear. I happened to have chosen a lifestyle that put me at odds from the mainstream and its been a long strange trip ever since. Being on the other side of the law on these issues have given me a very unique insight into just how subtle tyranny can be right in front of a societies own eyes as well as just how relative the concept of freedom is. I smoke marijuana recreationally. I happen to feel from personal experience and observation that marijuana is safer than alcohol so I choose to smoke pot. When others feel like boozing I feel like smoking. It drives me nuts that while we teach in our schools of the failures of our prohibitionist era policies, we preach at the same time that it is wrong to smoke pot due to 'secondary effects'. It is a direct contradiction of values. During prohibition we decided that freedom is paramount and we recognized as a nation this value to our society. We made the detrimental secondary effects everyone was so afraid regarding alcohol illegal for what they were and allowed responsible adults to engage the behavior without breaking the law. It has worked out very well. Sure there are still the associated costs of freedom that irresponsible citizens (ie, drunk drivers, knuckleheads, etc.) make us all pay, but by and large with the alcohol consumed in this nation it is still a small minority of consumers that abuse it to the point of infringing upon the freedom of others. Most importantly we preserved in our approach to alcohol what should be highly regarded in this nation, our value of individual freedom. I think the same approach should be taken with marijuana. There is much more talking points on the issue of legalization. I could fill a book (and hope to) with my analysis and opinions of things relating to marijuana policy and why we should change it but I guess I cant write that boo
joshfl wrote: I am very much on my own path. It's more like a highway where a handbasket is the primary mode of transportation. It does look like you are having fun...probably more fun than the women who are sold into prostitution everyday in this world. But, I guess that you haven't reached the point that you realize that everything is not about you. You claim that you have never assaulted anyone. How can you paying to have sex with someone, who most likely doesn't want to be in that position, be labeled anything other than assault? Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read -- modified at 10:54 Tuesday 27th September, 2005
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Ok, so I meant to stir things up a bit with my post below but I don't feel that I am doing myself or my cause(s) justice by not fully articulating my thoughts on the subject matter at least once here for everyone to consider. This is a long post, not for the attention deficit folks.. I understand both of my points of concern are non-issues to most US voters (probably where my angst rises from) but I feel if there is to be a more united domestic culture, eventually these issues will have to become more important. Even if it does not effect you, it effects a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens that should be able to come out of the shadows and live their lives without fear. I happened to have chosen a lifestyle that put me at odds from the mainstream and its been a long strange trip ever since. Being on the other side of the law on these issues have given me a very unique insight into just how subtle tyranny can be right in front of a societies own eyes as well as just how relative the concept of freedom is. I smoke marijuana recreationally. I happen to feel from personal experience and observation that marijuana is safer than alcohol so I choose to smoke pot. When others feel like boozing I feel like smoking. It drives me nuts that while we teach in our schools of the failures of our prohibitionist era policies, we preach at the same time that it is wrong to smoke pot due to 'secondary effects'. It is a direct contradiction of values. During prohibition we decided that freedom is paramount and we recognized as a nation this value to our society. We made the detrimental secondary effects everyone was so afraid regarding alcohol illegal for what they were and allowed responsible adults to engage the behavior without breaking the law. It has worked out very well. Sure there are still the associated costs of freedom that irresponsible citizens (ie, drunk drivers, knuckleheads, etc.) make us all pay, but by and large with the alcohol consumed in this nation it is still a small minority of consumers that abuse it to the point of infringing upon the freedom of others. Most importantly we preserved in our approach to alcohol what should be highly regarded in this nation, our value of individual freedom. I think the same approach should be taken with marijuana. There is much more talking points on the issue of legalization. I could fill a book (and hope to) with my analysis and opinions of things relating to marijuana policy and why we should change it but I guess I cant write that boo
Figured I ought to weigh in on this one, being the leftist wingnut that I am. :-) First to Josh: By all means, save a copy of your original post. Read it when you are somewhere between 40-45, depends on how long it takes you to realize that not only have you grown up, you are now also growing older. I can assure you, you'll laugh at how you once felt so passionate about things that you no longer really give a shit about, LOL. As far as legalization: I don't know if it is a good idea or a bad idea. What I do know is that all we are doing now is making some problems worse, and wasting a lot of taxpayers money. Since this is clearly not working, why not try something else. My thoughts on a more logical approach are: Prostitution - nobody has really defined that. It occurs at many levels, but it is easier to define than the drug problem. Something needs to be done to get the girls on the street off the street - they are invariably part of a vicious cycle of crime, drugs, disease, violence and abuse. To me the logical thing is not to gpo after the johns or the prostitutes like we do now. Instead make pimping a much more severe crime since they are usually a big part of the real problem. Long prison terms and maybe castration - let them be somebody's "bitch" for a change. :-) The girls from Russia - you don't see them in the US like you do in Europe. But it is really sad. They need to be helped. Give them a little money and help them get passports (the traffickers generally take them away) and get back home. At the escort level, the girls are rarely "victims". They are entrepenuers, and they have no interest in legalization because they make wads (bad pun) of money under the table. I say you might as well make "escorting" legal, and make them pay taxes like the rest of us. Drugs: A lot more complicated. As people have said "where do you draw the line?" I don't know but I agree that the alcohol/marijuana laws are hypocritical, and mostly I'm just tired of wasting taxpayer's money on a useless "war". It's mostly a war on the working people's wallets. I think probably the best approach is a "practical" one rather than a "moral" one. Make pot legal and controlled like alcohol, and tax the hell out of it. LSD and mushrooms are mind toys for middle class white college students - they'll never be used by the majority of the population, and never be used by much of anyone on any kind of regular basis. I say take them off the statutes completely - no legal status, except for
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legalAlien wrote: I've never smoked dope or been with a prostitute and don't feel that I've missed out on anything. Yeah, to be honest, I can't imagine getting my dick out for some chick I don't know, let alone care for. legalAlien wrote: Still, having said that prostitution should be legal. It's just sex, it soes no hram and legalising may help to clean it up, make it safer for the women and we can tax it. Apparently, the evidence points to legalisation creating an environment where women are further exploited. So I've read during recent debate where I live, anyhow. legalAlien wrote: And drugs should be legalised. Why? Because at present I pay a hefty sum in tax to 'fight' the drugs trade. This also means that large police resources have to be dedicated to 'fight' the drugs trade, thereby removing them from protecting me and mine. Yeah, although I don't do drugs, I agree with this, to a point. Some drugs are just SO destructive, that I think all were ever going to debate is where the line is drawn, we'll always need one. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: Some drugs are just SO destructive Like alcahol (maybe) and tobacco (absolutely). The tigress is here :-D
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Christian Graus wrote: Some drugs are just SO destructive Like alcahol (maybe) and tobacco (absolutely). The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: (maybe) maybe? When young people drink booze only for purpose of getting drunk (=>they dring large amount of it) then it is not "maybe". My friend (rougly same age as me) was told by doctors that he MUST stop drinking... or :~ Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
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This come across as the rant of a small child whining because the big bad adults won't let him do what he wants to, "By God when I grow up I'm gonna ...." joshfl wrote: There is much more talking points on the issue of legalization. I could fill a book (and hope to) with my analysis and opinions of things relating to marijuana policy and why we should change it You are not old enough nor do you have any ideas that are fresh along this line. I am a bit older than you and I remember when possession of a roach could get you 10 years. My business partner has been a non paid official with NORMAL for years fighting to change the laws regarding pot and they have some small sucess stories. Why don't you just do like everyone else does - play the social game, smoke your blunts in private or with good friends and not shout it from the rooftops. You are just gonna aggrevate the situation. joshfl wrote: Prostitution is known as the oldest profession. I do believe that undertaking is a bit older. Perhaps when you reach that point in you life ( if you ever do ) where you have a modicum of self assurance you can get laid on your own - I mean I have seen some ugly pathetic men with decent chicks. You oughta talk to some hookers about what they really think of their johns. You would be amazed. joshfl wrote: Washington grew the marijuana himself, and was quoted as "make the most of the hemp( aka marijuana) seed and sew it everywhere." This is the kind of trash that uninformed pot heads are spouting off about all the time. It just makes it tougher on everyone else. Yes old GW grew hemp ( delta 9 THC content was probably less than 1% ). Hell everyone grew it for rope , cloth, oil, cattle feed. The populance also used cocaine ,opium , alcohol and other assorted drugs freely. The affects are alive today in the laws you so hate. joshfl wrote: I only wish to live my life according to my values with other like minded adults without being incarcerated. Yep - thats what those fine folks at NAMBA keep spouting. Same same with the various anti government groups and other assorted nuts. I am not going into the long reason why it won't work like that but the short one is society says no. You can't get your way. Richard Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
Richard Stringer wrote: This come across as the rant of a small child whining because the big bad adults won't let him do what he wants to, "By God when I grow up I'm gonna ...." Maybe how I come across to you is not so much reality but your own preconceptions of the people you have been taught to hate. I will do what I do with or without your permission Richard, no worries :) I am just trying to get more out in the open so maybe people like myself and people like you can learn to respect one another more and get along in a civilized manner in the future. You could try to attack the content of my message with rational instead of emotionally driven insults towards me and I think we could get more accomplished. Richard Stringer wrote: You are not old enough nor do you have any ideas that are fresh along this line. Tell me, what are all of my ideas Richard? If you don't know all of my ideas maybe you'll see once again this is simply a petty insult on your behalf. Richard Stringer wrote: Why don't you just do like everyone else does - play the social game, smoke your blunts in private or with good friends and not shout it from the rooftops. You are just gonna aggravate the situation. I expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide my lifestyle choices in America. Novel concept. The prohibition camp has no problem getting into every ones face with their ideas , and enforcement, etc. I just believe it is important for more of the story to be heard from my camps side. I truly believe our marijuana prohibition has created more problems for us than the drug itself and it distracts us from the real threats such as terrorism, organized crime, child molesters, violent crime, etc. Besides, do you have a problem with my practicing free speech? Richard Stringer wrote: I do believe that undertaking is a bit older. Perhaps when you reach that point in you life ( if you ever do ) where you have a modicum of self assurance you can get laid on your own Lets get this straight because now your pulling out all the cleche stops. Sure they are crowd pleasures, but lack substance. I have great self esteem. I love me. I would much rather be than you :) I don't have to visit sex workers. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. I choose to. I prefer it because I don't relate to women the way you do and do not have something inside of me that needs to cling to another for some fee
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Richard Stringer wrote: This come across as the rant of a small child whining because the big bad adults won't let him do what he wants to, "By God when I grow up I'm gonna ...." Maybe how I come across to you is not so much reality but your own preconceptions of the people you have been taught to hate. I will do what I do with or without your permission Richard, no worries :) I am just trying to get more out in the open so maybe people like myself and people like you can learn to respect one another more and get along in a civilized manner in the future. You could try to attack the content of my message with rational instead of emotionally driven insults towards me and I think we could get more accomplished. Richard Stringer wrote: You are not old enough nor do you have any ideas that are fresh along this line. Tell me, what are all of my ideas Richard? If you don't know all of my ideas maybe you'll see once again this is simply a petty insult on your behalf. Richard Stringer wrote: Why don't you just do like everyone else does - play the social game, smoke your blunts in private or with good friends and not shout it from the rooftops. You are just gonna aggravate the situation. I expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide my lifestyle choices in America. Novel concept. The prohibition camp has no problem getting into every ones face with their ideas , and enforcement, etc. I just believe it is important for more of the story to be heard from my camps side. I truly believe our marijuana prohibition has created more problems for us than the drug itself and it distracts us from the real threats such as terrorism, organized crime, child molesters, violent crime, etc. Besides, do you have a problem with my practicing free speech? Richard Stringer wrote: I do believe that undertaking is a bit older. Perhaps when you reach that point in you life ( if you ever do ) where you have a modicum of self assurance you can get laid on your own Lets get this straight because now your pulling out all the cleche stops. Sure they are crowd pleasures, but lack substance. I have great self esteem. I love me. I would much rather be than you :) I don't have to visit sex workers. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. I choose to. I prefer it because I don't relate to women the way you do and do not have something inside of me that needs to cling to another for some fee
joshfl wrote: am just trying to get more out in the open so maybe people like myself and people like you can learn to respect one another more and get along in a civilized manner in the future. People like you? Hell son you are what 24-25 years old? I have probably spilled more dope than you have ever used. been there - donr that - have a tee shirt. It ain't worth it. joshfl wrote: Tell me, what are all of my ideas Richard? If you don't know all of my ideas maybe you'll see once again this is simply a petty insult on your behalf. You want the world to do things as you see fit and to realize that they are wrong and you are gonna tell them where and why. You are not the first nor the last person who has came along with this idea. And I don't do petty insults - I do big ones :) joshfl wrote: I expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide my lifestyle choices in America. Novel concept. The prohibition camp has no problem getting into every ones face with their ideas , and enforcement, etc. I just believe it is important for more of the story to be heard from my camps side. I truly believe our marijuana prohibition has created more problems for us than the drug itself and it distracts us from the real threats such as terrorism, organized crime, child molesters, violent crime, etc. Besides, do you have a problem with my practicing free speech? Well I am sure that the people who are terrorists and pedophiles and child molesters and those who commit violent crimes expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide their lifestyle choices also. Just like you do. And to the same extent that they can live their lives in relative peace so can you. Society says that violence and crime is against its tenets and those who wish do commit these acts are punished by society. You fall into that same big group. If you think that your cause is just then work tom get it changed. joshfl wrote: I have great self esteem. I love me. I would much rather be than you I don't have to visit sex workers. I choose to. I prefer it because I don't relate to women the way you do and do not have something inside of me that needs to cling to another for some feeling of wholeness. I do not require love for sex. Probably has to do with my growing up in the big city and happened to grow up w/ many loose girls. Just the way I developed. More power to you if you don't rela
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Christian Graus wrote: Some drugs are just SO destructive Like alcahol (maybe) and tobacco (absolutely). The tigress is here :-D
I'd say alcohol is worse than tobacco, in so many ways ( does any man beat is wife because of a tobacco induced rage ) ? I'm talking more about drugs that have such severe side effects as well as being aggressively addictive that there's no reason why we'd want to tolerate addicts in our society. Again, alcohol is more likely to meet this criteria than tobacco, although I was thinking of neither. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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joshfl wrote: am just trying to get more out in the open so maybe people like myself and people like you can learn to respect one another more and get along in a civilized manner in the future. People like you? Hell son you are what 24-25 years old? I have probably spilled more dope than you have ever used. been there - donr that - have a tee shirt. It ain't worth it. joshfl wrote: Tell me, what are all of my ideas Richard? If you don't know all of my ideas maybe you'll see once again this is simply a petty insult on your behalf. You want the world to do things as you see fit and to realize that they are wrong and you are gonna tell them where and why. You are not the first nor the last person who has came along with this idea. And I don't do petty insults - I do big ones :) joshfl wrote: I expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide my lifestyle choices in America. Novel concept. The prohibition camp has no problem getting into every ones face with their ideas , and enforcement, etc. I just believe it is important for more of the story to be heard from my camps side. I truly believe our marijuana prohibition has created more problems for us than the drug itself and it distracts us from the real threats such as terrorism, organized crime, child molesters, violent crime, etc. Besides, do you have a problem with my practicing free speech? Well I am sure that the people who are terrorists and pedophiles and child molesters and those who commit violent crimes expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide their lifestyle choices also. Just like you do. And to the same extent that they can live their lives in relative peace so can you. Society says that violence and crime is against its tenets and those who wish do commit these acts are punished by society. You fall into that same big group. If you think that your cause is just then work tom get it changed. joshfl wrote: I have great self esteem. I love me. I would much rather be than you I don't have to visit sex workers. I choose to. I prefer it because I don't relate to women the way you do and do not have something inside of me that needs to cling to another for some feeling of wholeness. I do not require love for sex. Probably has to do with my growing up in the big city and happened to grow up w/ many loose girls. Just the way I developed. More power to you if you don't rela
Richard Stringer wrote: People like you? Hell son you are what 24-25 years old? I have probably spilled more dope than you have ever used. been there - donr that - have a tee shirt. It ain't worth it. Lol, cute. I bet that gave you that tingly sensation down low and a sense of accomplishment. Richard Stringer wrote: You want the world to do things as you see fit and to realize that they are wrong and you are gonna tell them where and why. You are not the first nor the last person who has came along with this idea. And I don't do petty insults - I do big ones I don't want to tell the world how to live their lives. I wish to live my own without hostile interference. Its not wrong to defend yourself in the face of threats. I am threatened by people like you on a daily basis in various forms. I don't threaten you for your lifestyle. You threaten mine. That is the difference. Are you sure you don't want to elaborate on your intimate knowledge of all the ideas that I possess so that you can make the judgement you did previously that I have nothing of substance to offer on the subject? I note that you did not respond to this area from our previous exchange. Richard Stringer wrote: Well I am sure that the people who are terrorists and pedophiles and child molesters and those who commit violent crimes expect to be able to live free without fear and having to hide their lifestyle choices also Your are really going above and beyond to support your position, I think too far. I think their is a very clear distinction between someone who says they should be free to smoke a plant and someone who argues they should be free to molest a child. Can we agree here? Richard Stringer wrote: If you think that your cause is just then work tom get it changed. Cant you see that is what I am doing. I would rather speak with those who don't often hear my form of rational (ie code project viewers) to maybe influence some much needed public opinion towards support for my cause than go to hightimes.com and preach to the choir. I am working to get it changed. Do you wish to condemn me for this as well? I'm posting about it because that is the best thing I can do to work to change these things. Are you suggesting that I am not working to get it changed by speaking with other people about these things in a civilized manner? Are you recommending I take more extreme measures? Are you advocating that I become a terr
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I get the gist of what your getting at, in that you want to be 100% 'free' to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't touch someone elses. To me that sounds like someone who just wants to follow his own desires. joshfl wrote: During prohibition we decided that freedom is paramount and we recognized as a nation this value to our society. I agree there is a hypocricy in the way Alcohol is treated vs Marijuana [This example could be extended to many things]. Though as a person who for Islamic reasons has no interest in either of them, it appears to me prohibition was struck down not because of any freedom ideals, but the majority of people [including those in power] wanted to drink and there were major interests willing to supply it. So they went about and changed the situation not because it was right or wrong but because they wanted to. Plain and simple. joshfl wrote: All in all, I just want to be left to do my thing. I don't hurt anyone. I've never assaulted anyone, stole from anyone, and I try to always be kind and treat others how I wish to be treated. I only wish to live my life according to my values with other like minded adults without being incarcerated. And dont worry stan, I dont need any welfare You are still a part of society. Sure everyone should have privacy, and no one should be snooping around. But as soon as something is done in the public sphere, it affects society as a whole. Quran Translation Intro Discover
A.A. wrote: I get the gist of what your getting at, in that you want to be 100% 'free' to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't touch someone elses. To me that sounds like someone who just wants to follow his own desires. Yes. I live in a Constitutional Republic. It is called America. There was this thing I remember about freedom , and pursuit of happiness involved with this nation but ah, who remembers any of that.... These days we are a democracy right <- :suss: ?? I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
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joshfl wrote: People in the Netherlands are not getting shot over marijuana because it is a commodity over there Again this is not true. Small amounts are not illegal but growing and supplying the coffee shops is. This is the part of the trade that the tourists dont see and there is big money at stake. I lived there and the locals dont like it. 99% dont smoke it much. They think its a loosers activity and brings undesirable tourists. I think they are right. Now on to prostitution. It is legal here in Australia and causes a lot of problems. Girls are smuggled here from South East Asia under the pretext of a better life and are forced into prostitution when they arrive. Have you noticed how many of the working girls in Amsterdam come from Eastern European countries? Next time you finish with one ask her if she is happy with the way her life is going? Or just look into the eyes of some of the girls in the windows and ask yourself if she looks happy. That'll kill ya boner If you think your holiday to Amsterdam gives you any insight into the Dutch culture or way of life you are very mistaken. Get out of the city and talk to some of the real locals. You will see it is a very different place to what you think. And there is a lot more to the place that pot and whores. You can get that at home. They have a culture that goes back 1000's of years. Something that the US wont have for a long long time. Next time you think about going to a prostitiue over there go to a cheese market instead. You just might learn something
Josh Gray wrote: Again this is not true. Small amounts are not illegal but growing and supplying the coffee shops is. This is the part of the trade that the tourists dont see and there is big money at stake. I lived there and the locals dont like it. 99% dont smoke it much. Yes, I understand this. Once again the laws allow violent / dangerous criminal elements to thrive while the consumers and innocent citizenry pay the price for the legislated divide. I can not say this with factual accuracy, but I would bet that regardless of what violent crime and corruption is in Amsterdams marijuana trade that the violent crime and corruption in America where there is full prohibition is more deadly and widespread. Josh Gray wrote: They think its a loosers activity and brings undesirable tourists. I think they are right. Good for you and them. I hope your hate serves you well. I have only had great trips to Amsterdam, met some really great locals, and spent some pretty decent amounts of money over there. I dont think the people I do business with over there would completely agree with you and your friends but your all entitled to feel this way. Josh Gray wrote: Now on to prostitution. It is legal here in Australia and causes a lot of problems. Girls are smuggled here from South East Asia under the pretext of a better life and are forced into prostitution when they arrive. Have you noticed how many of the working girls in Amsterdam come from Eastern European countries? Next time you finish with one ask her if she is happy with the way her life is going? Or just look into the eyes of some of the girls in the windows and ask yourself if she looks happy. That'll kill ya boner I wrote about this in response to Richard above so I wont repeat too much here. If you care to know how I feel about this area you can also reference that post. I dont by any means endorse human trafficking. It happens here in America too and we dont have legalized prostitution so it is not only an effect of the legal status. I will not be with girls that I feel have not clearly demonstrated a desire to engage in this type of activity with me. Only a really sadistic individual would enjoy to see suffering during a sexual encounter. The girls I like to be with enjoy their work. I understand your position in regards to the undesireable elements of the industry but you must understand to the contrary there are women who do this out of choice with many other
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I didn't know whether I should laugh or cry when I read this. I've never smoked dope or been with a prostitute and don't feel that I've missed out on anything. Don't get me wrong: I'm not condeming or moralising here: you have the right to find your own place in life and, provided you don't do any harm, go for it. I am just saddened that you should feel it necessary to 'enhance' your life with drugs and to feel such low self esteem that you feel it necessary to pay (okay, we all pay) so overtly for sex on such a regular basis. Still, having said that prostitution should be legal. It's just sex, it soes no hram and legalising may help to clean it up, make it safer for the women and we can tax it. And drugs should be legalised. Why? Because at present I pay a hefty sum in tax to 'fight' the drugs trade. This also means that large police resources have to be dedicated to 'fight' the drugs trade, thereby removing them from protecting me and mine. If it were legalised not only would it cost me less, the govt would actually make money from it, the drugs would be safer to use, there would always be clean needles and associated crime would go down. Lets face it, the 'war' can never be won so why not take a fresh approach? Personally I hate drugs and the life that appears to go with it but you have to be pragmatic. We've been trying since the early sixties (in modern times) to eradicate the problem and I doubt we've made even a tiny dent. I also realise that legalising drugs may bring up other issues such as mental health but with the money we'd be saving and the money we'd be making perhaps we'll be able to put more money inot getting people off of the drugs that control their lives. Just a thought.
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legalAlien wrote: I didn't know whether I should laugh or cry when I read this. I've never smoked dope or been with a prostitute and don't feel that I've missed out on anything. Don't get me wrong: I'm not condeming or moralising here: you have the right to find your own place in life and, provided you don't do any harm, go for it. Thank you. I fully respect that. legalAlien wrote: I am just saddened that you should feel it necessary to 'enhance' your life with drugs and to feel such low self esteem that you feel it necessary to pay (okay, we all pay) so overtly for sex on such a regular basis. I dont think it warrants a state of sadness on your behalf, as I am very happy with my lifestyle. Do you know of anyone in your life who drinks now and then that you are able to respect and feel has not been taken over by the 'demon alcohol'? Well, if you are able to think of someone just realize I am not that much different than that individual. There is a lot more to my life than these things, these are just the ones that warrant heated soapbox discussion. As far as the sex goes, you just said it yourself. Every man pays for it. Every woman pays for her relations in some way as well. I just like a little more control over the transaction. A lot of working girls like the control over the exchange they get as well. There is a lot less mess this way. I can proudly say I have no woman problems in my life, how many of you guys can say that?? ;P legalAlien wrote: Still, having said that prostitution should be legal. It's just sex, it soes no hram and legalising may help to clean it up, make it safer for the women and we can tax it. And drugs should be legalised. Why? Because at present I pay a hefty sum in tax to 'fight' the drugs trade. This also means that large police resources have to be dedicated to 'fight' the drugs trade, thereby removing them from protecting me and mine. If it were legalised not only would it cost me less, the govt would actually make money from it, the drugs would be safer to use, there would always be clean needles and associated crime would go down. Lets face it, the 'war' can never be won so why not take a fresh approach? Personally I hate drugs and the life that appears to go with it but you have to be pragmatic. We've been trying since the early sixties (in modern times) to eradicate the problem and I doubt we've made even a tiny dent. I also realise that legalising drugs may bring up other issue
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In theory, I guess. I believe in practice that legalisation creates more demand, and also more supply, which leads to crime in other areas also growing, such as drug use ( and in the context of this thread, while drugs are illegal, they will continue to cause health problems, and also cause people to steal to pay for them ) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote: In theory, I guess. I believe in practice that legalisation creates more demand, and also more supply, which leads to crime in other areas also growing, such as drug use ( and in the context of this thread, while drugs are illegal, they will continue to cause health problems, and also cause people to steal to pay for them ) I can afford my lifestyle. No problems. I dont like to let fear control my freedom. Because you are scared someone may steal for weed you feel it is ok to prohibit all use of marijuana. What if I'm scared you may steal for booze? Like we do with other things, I think we should preserve freedom first, and than enforce the law when people actually commit a crime against humanity such as theft or violence. I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
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joshfl wrote: I don't hurt anyone. Next time you pay for such servies, ask the woman if she truly likes what she does for a living.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Next time you pay for such servies, ask the woman if she truly likes what she does for a living. See some of my posts above if you wish to know how I feel on this. I responded to many posts tonight, and covered this issue twice in those responses. I do talk to my providers. I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana
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Josh Gray wrote: Again this is not true. Small amounts are not illegal but growing and supplying the coffee shops is. This is the part of the trade that the tourists dont see and there is big money at stake. I lived there and the locals dont like it. 99% dont smoke it much. Yes, I understand this. Once again the laws allow violent / dangerous criminal elements to thrive while the consumers and innocent citizenry pay the price for the legislated divide. I can not say this with factual accuracy, but I would bet that regardless of what violent crime and corruption is in Amsterdams marijuana trade that the violent crime and corruption in America where there is full prohibition is more deadly and widespread. Josh Gray wrote: They think its a loosers activity and brings undesirable tourists. I think they are right. Good for you and them. I hope your hate serves you well. I have only had great trips to Amsterdam, met some really great locals, and spent some pretty decent amounts of money over there. I dont think the people I do business with over there would completely agree with you and your friends but your all entitled to feel this way. Josh Gray wrote: Now on to prostitution. It is legal here in Australia and causes a lot of problems. Girls are smuggled here from South East Asia under the pretext of a better life and are forced into prostitution when they arrive. Have you noticed how many of the working girls in Amsterdam come from Eastern European countries? Next time you finish with one ask her if she is happy with the way her life is going? Or just look into the eyes of some of the girls in the windows and ask yourself if she looks happy. That'll kill ya boner I wrote about this in response to Richard above so I wont repeat too much here. If you care to know how I feel about this area you can also reference that post. I dont by any means endorse human trafficking. It happens here in America too and we dont have legalized prostitution so it is not only an effect of the legal status. I will not be with girls that I feel have not clearly demonstrated a desire to engage in this type of activity with me. Only a really sadistic individual would enjoy to see suffering during a sexual encounter. The girls I like to be with enjoy their work. I understand your position in regards to the undesireable elements of the industry but you must understand to the contrary there are women who do this out of choice with many other
joshfl wrote: I have been to all the tourist hotspots on my first visit How original of you. The point i was making is that there is more to see then the tourist hot spots. joshfl wrote: Good for you and them. I hope your hate serves you well Who said anything about hate. Its an internet forum mate, chill out joshfl wrote: I dont think the people I do business with over there would completely agree with you and your friends but your all entitled to feel this way Well your just another Septic Tank with money to burn. Why would they tell you if they felt that way? There job is taking your money. When you go into a coffee shop and pay 3 euro for a coke to sip while you smoke..... they are laughing at you. joshfl wrote: I havent really tried to absorb the Dutch culture. Exactly. If you think about coming to Australia. Please dont
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my +5 - as an age 60 old coot I don't disagree with anything you've said. Point in fact the war on drugs is a huge drain on our society and economy. As to looking to hookers, pretty big personal (health) risk but agree it should be a personal choice. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore
Mike Gaskey wrote: my +5 - as an age 60 old coot I don't disagree with anything you've said. Point in fact the war on drugs is a huge drain on our society and economy. Thank you very much for your support, Mike. Mike Gaskey wrote: As to looking to hookers, pretty big personal (health) risk but agree it should be a personal choice. I 100% agree that it is a big personal health rish. Huge risk within its illicit environments. I do absolutly everything a thinking individual can do to minimize my risks but I understand I am still gambling. I feel the risks would be reduced drastically for both consumer and worker if our activities were legalized and regulated which is why this is very important to me. I speak in a little known dialect of English called Josh. It is the spoken language of all people governed by the sovereign entity known as Josh. Please do not try to correct it, as I speak perfect Josh. Legalize Marijuana