Free speech is an important right, but, ...
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Talking about freedom of speech, this[^] Napster add apparently isn't allowed in the US, but is in the UK (though I have yet to see it on TV). Might be worth 30 seconds of your time... :)
The Rob Blog
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Nope. The British Nationalist Party has recently been invited on the Today programme and other serious UK political programs. They were, unsurprisingly, royaly buggered by the interviewers and opposing parties (In live debate). Not that most of their illiterate constituency listen to the programmes.. Their views should be publicly and loudly challenged and exposed for the idiocy that they are, not swept under the carpet to fester. Ryan
O fools, awake! The rites you sacred hold Are but a cheat contrived by men of old, Who lusted after wealth and gained their lust And died in baseness—and their law is dust. al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
-- modified at 18:43 Saturday 19th November, 2005
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I understand you all are saying. It just seems weird that there is an "American Nazi Party", considering what Nazi Germany did to the Jews during WWII.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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"Free Speech": IN the US, it is: congree may not make a law indering free speech. It doesn't say "anyone can say everything everywhere", or that you have to listen. In most civilized countries, the concept is the same: replace cencorship by "peer review", so to say.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
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I understand you all are saying. It just seems weird that there is an "American Nazi Party", considering what Nazi Germany did to the Jews during WWII.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
It just seems weird that there is an "American Nazi Party", considering what Nazi Germany did to the Jews during WWII
Every country has its share of idiots. The UK has the Labour Party which have 82 year old survivors of Nazi Germany arrested under the Terrorism act: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4292342.stm[^] After being ejected Mr Wolfgang's pass was seized and he was detained under the Terrorism Act when he tried to re-enter the conference on Wednesday. Questioned about why Mr Wolfgang had been briefly arrested under the Terrorism Act, Mr Blair said: "My understanding is that his delegate's credentials showed he had been ejected before and he had to wait while that was checked out." -- And this makes him a terrorist??? David Cameron described the incident as "one of those moments which lays bare the full absurdity of the Orwellian New Labour project". He said the use of the Terrorism Act in preventing Mr Wolfgang's return was "profoundly depressing". -- I couldn't have said it better myself, although I'd have probably been a little less restrained.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
It just seems weird that there is an "American Nazi Party", considering what Nazi Germany did to the Jews during WWII
Every country has its share of idiots. The UK has the Labour Party which have 82 year old survivors of Nazi Germany arrested under the Terrorism act: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4292342.stm[^] After being ejected Mr Wolfgang's pass was seized and he was detained under the Terrorism Act when he tried to re-enter the conference on Wednesday. Questioned about why Mr Wolfgang had been briefly arrested under the Terrorism Act, Mr Blair said: "My understanding is that his delegate's credentials showed he had been ejected before and he had to wait while that was checked out." -- And this makes him a terrorist??? David Cameron described the incident as "one of those moments which lays bare the full absurdity of the Orwellian New Labour project". He said the use of the Terrorism Act in preventing Mr Wolfgang's return was "profoundly depressing". -- I couldn't have said it better myself, although I'd have probably been a little less restrained.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
That is interesting. I guess Britain has made some changes in their terror policy since the July bombings.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Every country has its share of idiots.
Some would say that I am one. :)
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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That is interesting. I guess Britain has made some changes in their terror policy since the July bombings.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Every country has its share of idiots.
Some would say that I am one. :)
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
I guess Britain has made some changes in their terror policy since the July bombings.
The changes in the Terrorism Act were made before the 7th of July.
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Some would say that I am one
To quote a fellow compatriot of yours: "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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I understand you all are saying. It just seems weird that there is an "American Nazi Party", considering what Nazi Germany did to the Jews during WWII.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
It just seems weird that there is
There is everything in this world. All the good, all the bad and everything in between. There is racial hatred between multiple groups, from each side (though not everyone is involved). There is religeous intollerance, and religious extremism in every religion (though not everyone is involved). Anything you can imagine, in your worst nightmare to your favorite dream probably exists, somewhere. The USA has never had an exemption, nor has any other country. Inter-racial marriages were banned until the 1960's well after Hitler's racial hatred. It was still a crime, a punishable crime, for a black man to touch a white woman in some states. That was so short a time ago, that the mind set still exists. It was not that these states wanted to give up laws preventing "mongrelization of races" as one state put it, they were forced to accept inter-racial relationships by federal mandate. If you have any idea what "forcing" someone to change their mind does... it makes them more firmly committed to the cause. Only a couple years a few senators were taped calling native americans "dogs" this is part of the world. Recognizing that there is wrong means you can try to fight it, denying that a problem still exists means it will never move forward. Many people deny there are still problems to work on. I believe freedom of speech is better than denial. At least freedom of speech can be addressed with freedom of speech. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
It just seems weird that there is
There is everything in this world. All the good, all the bad and everything in between. There is racial hatred between multiple groups, from each side (though not everyone is involved). There is religeous intollerance, and religious extremism in every religion (though not everyone is involved). Anything you can imagine, in your worst nightmare to your favorite dream probably exists, somewhere. The USA has never had an exemption, nor has any other country. Inter-racial marriages were banned until the 1960's well after Hitler's racial hatred. It was still a crime, a punishable crime, for a black man to touch a white woman in some states. That was so short a time ago, that the mind set still exists. It was not that these states wanted to give up laws preventing "mongrelization of races" as one state put it, they were forced to accept inter-racial relationships by federal mandate. If you have any idea what "forcing" someone to change their mind does... it makes them more firmly committed to the cause. Only a couple years a few senators were taped calling native americans "dogs" this is part of the world. Recognizing that there is wrong means you can try to fight it, denying that a problem still exists means it will never move forward. Many people deny there are still problems to work on. I believe freedom of speech is better than denial. At least freedom of speech can be addressed with freedom of speech. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I believe freedom of speech is a basic human right. It just seems that someone who takes on the ideology of someone who tried to kill of an entire race, and dominate the world, is taking it a little too far.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
I guess Britain has made some changes in their terror policy since the July bombings.
The changes in the Terrorism Act were made before the 7th of July.
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Some would say that I am one
To quote a fellow compatriot of yours: "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
The changes in the Terrorism Act were made before the 7th of July.
That is odd, I wonder why? I bet conspiracy theorists love to speculate about that.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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You are free to post a hate list on your profile. I don't see you whining about that?
Good point, but I am not classifying people according to their race, the people on my list are there because of what they do, and their beliefs. Also, I am not taking on the beliefs of someone who started a world war trying dominate all of Europe, and kill off an entire race of people.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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I believe freedom of speech is a basic human right. It just seems that someone who takes on the ideology of someone who tried to kill of an entire race, and dominate the world, is taking it a little too far.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
t just seems that someone who takes on the ideology of someone who tried to kill of an entire race, and dominate the world, is taking it a little too far.
And you think that all people who want to rule the world or kill off other races have simply "ceased to be" because one man failed? The fact that he came so close to succeeding is, of its self, encouragement to others to follow. There were those, even in that day, that supported the cause that Hitler was working toward, and some continue on today in one form or another. Is that so surprising? It has barely been 60 years. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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There have to be prudent limits on speech. No freedom is, or can be, absolute. If a free people decide that some forms of speech go beyond a socially acceptable limit, than that speech should be banned. Frankly, I think that all openly fascist or communist speech should be censored without a bit of concern at all. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
t just seems that someone who takes on the ideology of someone who tried to kill of an entire race, and dominate the world, is taking it a little too far.
And you think that all people who want to rule the world or kill off other races have simply "ceased to be" because one man failed? The fact that he came so close to succeeding is, of its self, encouragement to others to follow. There were those, even in that day, that supported the cause that Hitler was working toward, and some continue on today in one form or another. Is that so surprising? It has barely been 60 years. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
You have a good point. I guess 60 years seems so long because I am young.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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Not at all. I don't know if you're an American or not, but freedom of speech is our most cherished right. Votaire once said, "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." That sums up the American attitude towards freedom of speech better than anything I've ever read. Free speech zones suck. Those who would restrict free speech are anti- American.
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There have to be prudent limits on speech. No freedom is, or can be, absolute. If a free people decide that some forms of speech go beyond a socially acceptable limit, than that speech should be banned. Frankly, I think that all openly fascist or communist speech should be censored without a bit of concern at all. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
I agree with you. Facists and Communists are America's enemies.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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Not at all. I don't know if you're an American or not, but freedom of speech is our most cherished right. Votaire once said, "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." That sums up the American attitude towards freedom of speech better than anything I've ever read. Free speech zones suck. Those who would restrict free speech are anti- American.
I am an American, and I do cherish the right to freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms, and all the others. It seems anti-American though, to try to use the First Ammendment to justify spreading around facist propaganda.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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You have a good point. I guess 60 years seems so long because I am young.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Sixty years is a long time even to us old fogeys. But if we don't remind ourselves of what happened sixty years ago, sixty years from now we will still do the same things. With free speech, the American Nazi Party exists. With free speech, you can counter its message.
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You have a good point. I guess 60 years seems so long because I am young.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
You have a good point. I guess 60 years seems so long because I am young.
Instead think in life generations (the time it takes for a man to be born and die of natural causes). There are those alive today that lived then, that remember then and they taught their children similar beliefs. Some children may rebel, or reject their parents ways, others accept them and carry them on. Similarly, people of other beliefs have had children who rebelled against their parents and chose to take up the opposite, which might be this. Sixty years is really a very short time, even 100 years is actually a short time. There are those today that are still fighting the civil war in the USA, raised that the north, or the south are to be despised and hated. There are even those who are fighting the indian wars. With each generation, through education, and exposure of the bad parts of these beliefs things decrease. Sweep them under the carpet, or encourage them and they grow. Probably the fewest are still fighting the war of independance, but even that exists still. It takes time to heal a wound, and you have to treat it. Allow it to fester and it grows. But no matter what you do, it still takes time. My ex-boss would never hire a Japanese-descent worker, he had his own term for them. He faught them, and if he still lives, is probably still fighting them. For him WWII never ended, the hatred continued for a lifetime. Blacks and Indians were just mongrels, not worth his time, and Mexicans were the equivalent of slave labor (the only reason he ever paid them was because he was required to do so). He treated everyone like dirt, probably because he could never be sure of how much mongrelization they had been subjected to. I am, as I term it, a heinz 57 American, definately a melting pot example, you name it, it's in me somewhere. Anyhow, hatred never dies because someone tells you to change, if anything it grows festering in the background, growing worse. The daughter of my ex-boss up and left one day, sold her condo without telling her father and moved as far away as she could. His son chose to accept things and stay. Where either are, or what they believe today, I haven't a clue. Their roles could have reversed, or moved farther into extremes. It is impossible to know. If there is a way to hate, a group to hate, it exists somewhere. If there is a way to love, a group to love, it exists also. But in the end, for the ones you talk about, it was onl
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I am an American, and I do cherish the right to freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms, and all the others. It seems anti-American though, to try to use the First Ammendment to justify spreading around facist propaganda.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
It seems anti-American though, to try to use the First Ammendment to justify spreading around facist propaganda.
The problem is with defining fascism....
Currently, there is no agreement among historians, political scientists or the general population concerning the nature of fascism. Most often, fascism is equated with the far-right, but there are many who argue that the far-right is not entirely fascist or that fascism is not entirely right-wing. **Almost without exception, each contemporary political ideology attempts to define "fascism" as the opposite of its own views.** Thus, the left-wing argues that fascism is right-wing, the right-wing argues that fascism is left-wing, moderates argue that fascism is extremist, and so on. See Fascism and ideology. There is also controversy surrounding the question of what political movements and governments belong to fascism. The most restrictive definitions of fascism include only one government - that of Benito Mussolini in Italy. The broadest definitions, on the other hand, may include every authoritarian state that has ever existed. The only universally agreed upon feature of fascism is that it involves a powerful, dictatorial state that attempts to control most aspects of the life of its citizens. The definition of fascism hinges upon the question of what those aspects of life actually are, how far must the state go in controlling them before becoming fascist, and what else does fascism require besides state control._________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)