What is the purpose of religion?
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awesome Rob,i wish you were a US president MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
By the way, I think it is a practical impossibility for a political leader to also be a moral or intellectual leader. Polictics is about compromise, the other two are absolutist in nature. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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For mankind it is probably an excuse to start a fight, but what could the diety possibly gain from it?
Mirza Ghalib wrote:
For mankind it is probably an excuse to start a fight,
Man doesn't need an excuse to start a fight. ;-) I suppose a lot depends on your defintion of religion. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Ra was head of the egyptian pantheon, he eventualy came to such prominance (possibly because of the on going power struggle between pharoah and the priesthood that characterised egypt) that his worship is considered one of the earliest forms of monothiesm. "A Hymn To Amen-Ra ... president of all the gods ... Lord of the heavens ... Lord of Truth ... maker of men; creator of beasts ... Ra, whose word is truth, the Governor of the world, the mighty one of valour, the chiefs who made the world as he made himself. His forms are more numerous than those of any god ... "Adoration be to thee, O Maker of the Gods, who hast stretched out the heavens and founded the earth! ... Lord of eternity, maker of the everlastingness ... creator of light ... "He heareth the prayer of the oppressed one, he is kind of heart to him that calleth upon him, he delivereth the timid man from the oppressor ... He is the Lord of knowledge, and Wisdom is the utterance of his mouth. "He maketh the green herb whereon the cattle live, and the staff of life whereon men live. He maketh the fish to live in the rivers, and the feathered fowl in the sky. He giveth life to that which is in the egg ... "Hail to thee, O thou maker of all these things, thou ONLY ONE. In his mightiness he taketh many forms." All sounds a little familiar :) And given all that time the Judeans spent hanging round in Egypt.. http://www.bloomington.in.us/~lgthscac/monotheism.htm [^] , the argument here is that polythiesm was a corruption of an original montheistic faith, which has of course been corrected by Christianity. Ryan
O fools, awake! The rites you sacred hold Are but a cheat contrived by men of old, Who lusted after wealth and gained their lust And died in baseness—and their law is dust. al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
-- modified at 16:16 Tuesday 6th December, 2005
I thought the first form of monotheism [edit]in Egypt[/edit] was brought by Akhen-Aten[^], who introduced the one and only god, Aten. Quite an interesting story with all the power struggle against the priests and everything else. Edbert P. Sydney, Australia -- modified at 18:05 Tuesday 6th December, 2005
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I almost did that once. Well, a female greek citizen anyway. :rolleyes: --
A Helenic disappointment? ;) Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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I thought the first form of monotheism [edit]in Egypt[/edit] was brought by Akhen-Aten[^], who introduced the one and only god, Aten. Quite an interesting story with all the power struggle against the priests and everything else. Edbert P. Sydney, Australia -- modified at 18:05 Tuesday 6th December, 2005
Heavily edited, never post post pub. Thanks for the better reference. Ryan
O fools, awake! The rites you sacred hold Are but a cheat contrived by men of old, Who lusted after wealth and gained their lust And died in baseness—and their law is dust. al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
-- modified at 18:34 Tuesday 6th December, 2005
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A Helenic disappointment? ;) Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Mirza Ghalib wrote:
For mankind it is probably an excuse to start a fight,
Man doesn't need an excuse to start a fight. ;-) I suppose a lot depends on your defintion of religion. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Basically, religion merely serves as a basis for social organization. As human societies grew more complex, religioun provided the most logical way for humans to organie their daily lives, and define their relationships in ways that were beneficial to the largest number of indiviudals. Any set of princples around which human beings organize themseslves functions inherently as a 'religion'. That is why it is impossible to escape religion. Human beings will always need a means of setting standards and rules of conduct based upon some source of moral authority. You simple cannot maintain civilization without it. That is the irony and the impossibility of modern concepts of separation of church and state which really do nothing more than free the state up to assume the inherent responsibilities of the church - achieving just the opposite of what they were originally intended to do. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
Religion was created as an effective means for one person or group to control the actions of others by claiming a special relationship with a higher power. The higher power speaks to the control freak who passes on the instructions to lesser mortals. So, basically, religion serves as a basis for control, not organization.
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Reverend Satan wrote:
That is the irony and the impossibility of modern concepts of separation of church and state which really do nothing more than free the state up to assume the inherent responsibilities of the church - achieving just the opposite of what they were originally intended to do.
So, is that an argument in favor of theocracy? ( It certainly looks like it could be used as one). I would argue, instead, that the most valid reason for insisting on a separation of church and state is to deny the state the ability to defend its actions by simple appeal to devine guidance (or worse) devine authority. A state able to defend its every act by citing an unappealable higher authority would be a dangerous beast indead. That said,the principle of separation of church and state should not be mistaken for an excuse for the state to suppress any paricular religion, or religion in general. The state should be relatively neutral with respect to any religion operating within the bounds of its civil laws. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke -- modified at 13:21 Tuesday 6th December, 2005 (I still can't type)
Rob Graham wrote:
the most valid reason for insisting on a separation of church and state is to deny the state the ability to defend its actions by simple appeal to devine guidance (or worse) devine authority
interesting. gets my 5. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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Rob Graham wrote:
the most valid reason for insisting on a separation of church and state is to deny the state the ability to defend its actions by simple appeal to devine guidance (or worse) devine authority
interesting. gets my 5. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
It would appear that there are things (some) liberals and (some) conservatives can agree on. It's a start. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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For mankind it is probably an excuse to start a fight, but what could the diety possibly gain from it?
Some people make money out of it.
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Well said. That pretty much sums up how I feel about that bullshit religion. I am proud to be an infadel. Allah can kiss my ass.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Allah can kiss my ass.
Allah is Arabic for God, right?
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Allah can kiss my ass.
Allah is Arabic for God, right?
Allah is the muslims' god.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Allah can kiss my ass.
Allah is Arabic for God, right?
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Regardless of what the words origins are, it STILL means the muslims' god, not any other god.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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Reverend Satan wrote:
That is the irony and the impossibility of modern concepts of separation of church and state which really do nothing more than free the state up to assume the inherent responsibilities of the church - achieving just the opposite of what they were originally intended to do.
So, is that an argument in favor of theocracy? ( It certainly looks like it could be used as one). I would argue, instead, that the most valid reason for insisting on a separation of church and state is to deny the state the ability to defend its actions by simple appeal to devine guidance (or worse) devine authority. A state able to defend its every act by citing an unappealable higher authority would be a dangerous beast indead. That said,the principle of separation of church and state should not be mistaken for an excuse for the state to suppress any paricular religion, or religion in general. The state should be relatively neutral with respect to any religion operating within the bounds of its civil laws. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke -- modified at 13:21 Tuesday 6th December, 2005 (I still can't type)
Amen
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Regardless of what the words origins are, it STILL means the muslims' god, not any other god.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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Rob Graham wrote:
The state has no need to be a moral authority. It should derive its legal authority from those it governs by some agreed representative mechanism that allows for change. It should reflect the moral sensibilities of those governed rather than specify what is or is not moral. In the end, the moral authority in any civilization is a consensus of its members, although they may sometimes blame their consensus on a supposed higher power. It is still their consesus and their responsibility. If the state or the church tell you to do something immoral, it is still your responsibility to accept or reject the correctness of their opinion.
Agreed. But that is an ideal which has yet to be achieved.
Rob Graham wrote:
Actually, I don't think separation of church and state has anything at all to do with moral authority. It has to do with prevent any church from becoming the legal authority, rather than forcing the state to be the moral authority.
But it is a two way street. If the state uses the concept of Separation of Church and State to so effectively inhibit the expression of religions moral sesntiment that it is 'compelled' to step in to assume the role of moral authority - what have you achieved? I think it has everything to do with moral authority. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
Reverend Satan wrote:
Agreed. But that is an ideal
Agreed, and I might had an ideal worth fighting for.
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quote on Regardless of what the words origins are, it STILL means the muslims' god, not any other god. quote off You are such a dumb fuck. Jew and Muslim all have the same god just different names.
Josh Gray wrote:
You are such a dumb f***.
Thank you. :) Look, It really dont mean shit when you call people names over the internet. I dont give a shit if some liberal from Europe thinks im a dumbfuck.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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quote on Regardless of what the words origins are, it STILL means the muslims' god, not any other god. quote off You are such a dumb fuck. Jew and Muslim all have the same god just different names.
Josh Gray wrote:
Jew and Muslim all have the same god just different names.
For one thing, the Jews' God is name Yahweh. The muslims' God is name Allah. And, you don't see Jews strapping on bombs and blowing up palestenians in the name of their God do you?
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray