Here it comes!
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In fact, this was my opinion, and an opinion is always biased. ISn't it? I challenge you (a friendly challenge) to show me actions (concrete actions) the US is taking to fight the pollution. Could you? -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
In fact, this was my opinion, and an opinion is always biased. ISn't it?
Yes, but an opinion should be based on as mush fact as possible. At least that is what I think. I saves me from being embarassed. And yes, I have been wrong many times, and I try very hard to step up and admit it.
Michel Prévost wrote:
I challenge you (a friendly challenge) to show me actions (concrete actions) the US is taking to fight the pollution. Could you?
Yes, I accept. But you have to be open minded, and if, god forbid, I give some concrete evidence, will you be open minded enough to consider it? I have to get a few things done at work but I promise to give some examples in a couple hours.
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kgaddy wrote:
I'm in the very rich country of the US making a lot of money
Exactly why everyone wants to move over there :-) Right now, most Indian teenagers studying Computer Science want to move to the US. Cause of all the wealth out there :-)
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There is probably a whole bunch of reasons why the US does not want to sign the Treaty,but the current administration is not known to be willing to make an effort to fight pollution, in fact, Bush has been denying global warming (he may have changed his mind since then, though). -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
There is probably a whole bunch of reasons why the US does not want to sign the Treaty,but the current administration is not known to be willing to make an effort to fight pollution, in fact, Bush has been denying global warming (he may have changed his mind since then, though).
Just my opinion, but I'm not convinced it all man's doing. The climate has changed without the help of man in the past on a frequent basis. I think the jury is still out on this one. BTW, here is St. Louis, its cold as hell. I wish there was a little global warming over here.
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Michel Prévost wrote:
In fact, this was my opinion, and an opinion is always biased. ISn't it?
Yes, but an opinion should be based on as mush fact as possible. At least that is what I think. I saves me from being embarassed. And yes, I have been wrong many times, and I try very hard to step up and admit it.
Michel Prévost wrote:
I challenge you (a friendly challenge) to show me actions (concrete actions) the US is taking to fight the pollution. Could you?
Yes, I accept. But you have to be open minded, and if, god forbid, I give some concrete evidence, will you be open minded enough to consider it? I have to get a few things done at work but I promise to give some examples in a couple hours.
Ok, agreed. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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kgaddy wrote:
What evidence do you have to doubt this?
Bush once denied any evidence of global warming, for one. That is a fact, the rest is an invention of my sick mind :~ -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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There is probably a whole bunch of reasons why the US does not want to sign the Treaty,but the current administration is not known to be willing to make an effort to fight pollution, in fact, Bush has been denying global warming (he may have changed his mind since then, though). -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
the current administration
Both the current and previous administrations have avoided submitting the treaty. It does, as others have suggested, give China and India plus maybe others a pass. That puts the US at a significant economic disadvantage, political sucicide for whoever attempts to get it signed. That (my belief) is why Clinton just dropped it and didn't push, ditto Bush. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
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Michel Prévost wrote:
the current administration
Both the current and previous administrations have avoided submitting the treaty. It does, as others have suggested, give China and India plus maybe others a pass. That puts the US at a significant economic disadvantage, political sucicide for whoever attempts to get it signed. That (my belief) is why Clinton just dropped it and didn't push, ditto Bush. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
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In fact, this was my opinion, and an opinion is always biased. ISn't it? I challenge you (a friendly challenge) to show me actions (concrete actions) the US is taking to fight the pollution. Could you? -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
here ya go: http://www.imo.org/Environment/mainframe.asp?topic_id=231 http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/060a8c7e3ec2a091852569bd00779f14?OpenDocument http://nieonline.com/detroit/plus.cfm?lessondate=20050919 http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/1cb51a6a972d99308525699900644b91?OpenDocument http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12774 a real interesting one... http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=9727 http://www.sierraclub.org/cleanair/factsheets/factsheet7-01.asp
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That is the sad part. US want to pollute as much as it wants. Anyway, when there is no air left suitable for life, this will not have any sense anyway. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
US want to pollute as much as it wants
As opposed to our country Michel? Which signed on to a 6% reduction and has raised C02 output by ~30% since then? And has one of the highest per capita outputs of CO2 in the world? Pot - meet kettle. :doh: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein Dave
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Statistically speaking, US is the most polluting country in the world, producing 25% of the pollution alone, and it is not even the most populated. http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1644199,00.html[^] http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/18/stories/2005111803861100.htm[^] Just 2 links. Big cities in Asia are among the most polluted in the world, but they don't contribute to global warming as much as the USA. Think about it: 5% of the population producing 25% of the greenhouse effect gas in the world. That is a lot. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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It's not like the US would allow people to sue each other for stupid reasons. Or is this suit really stupid? :suss: -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
It's not like the US would allow people to sue each other for stupid reasons.
What alternate universe did you come from. People sue each other for stupid reasons all the time here. Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome!
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Michel Prévost wrote:
US want to pollute as much as it wants
As opposed to our country Michel? Which signed on to a 6% reduction and has raised C02 output by ~30% since then? And has one of the highest per capita outputs of CO2 in the world? Pot - meet kettle. :doh: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein Dave
I have seen that the average Canadian consumes more energy than the average American, I agree. The problem is not there. It is that the americans seem not to want to walk with the rest of the world towards a common solution. And China and India are becoming economic powers themselves. Can you imagine what this will do? All they seem to want is imitate the american lifestyle. If things continue that way, we won't make it to the 22nd century. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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A more accurate statistic would be a country whose economy is over 30% of the world economy produces 25% of the greenhouse gases.
I am fucking sick of that fucking economy argument. YOu will be able to stick this fucking economy up your ass when there is no more resource, for that matter no more viable air to breathe. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Michel Prévost wrote:
It's not like the US would allow people to sue each other for stupid reasons.
What alternate universe did you come from. People sue each other for stupid reasons all the time here. Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome!
It seems that you are not familiar with sarcasm :laugh: Or maybe you are bringing it to another level :~ -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 18:48 Wednesday 7th December, 2005
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It seems that you are not familiar with sarcasm :laugh: Or maybe you are bringing it to another level :~ -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 18:48 Wednesday 7th December, 2005
Michel Prévost wrote:
It seems that you are not familiar with sarcasm
I decided it wasn't sarcasm, but I guess I decided wrong. :) Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome!
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I am fucking sick of that fucking economy argument. YOu will be able to stick this fucking economy up your ass when there is no more resource, for that matter no more viable air to breathe. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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lol I love your reply :-D -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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I have seen that the average Canadian consumes more energy than the average American, I agree. The problem is not there. It is that the americans seem not to want to walk with the rest of the world towards a common solution. And China and India are becoming economic powers themselves. Can you imagine what this will do? All they seem to want is imitate the american lifestyle. If things continue that way, we won't make it to the 22nd century. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
It is that the americans seem not to want to walk with the rest of the world towards a common solution.
Well right now the Americans have done more than Canadians towards an "effective" solution. Why won't Canada and the rest of the world adopt the American method and get something done instead of venting more hot air at conferences like the current one in Montreal? Global consensus isn't always a good thing if nothing ever gets done.
Michel Prévost wrote:
All they seem to want is imitate the american lifestyle.
Considering the Canadian lifestyle isn't much different isn't that a case of trying to deny to others what you already have yourself? Are you willing to sacrifice 1/3 of the Canadian economy to reduce our GHG emissions? 1/3 of your consumption?
Michel Prévost wrote:
If things continue that way, we won't make it to the 22nd century.
Of course people said that about New York at the turn of the 19th century but strangely enough the streets never did fill up with horse manure from all those horses required for all those people. :rolleyes: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein Dave
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Michel Prévost wrote:
It seems that you are not familiar with sarcasm
I decided it wasn't sarcasm, but I guess I decided wrong. :) Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome!
I think we need a specific color for sarcasm. Maybe a button like the 'Quote Selected Text' only 'Sarcasm Selected Text' and have it turn purple or Bob green or something. (Not that Bob is ever sarcastic or anything... Actually he's a fairly quiet guy) :laugh: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein Dave
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Michel Prévost wrote:
It is that the americans seem not to want to walk with the rest of the world towards a common solution.
Well right now the Americans have done more than Canadians towards an "effective" solution. Why won't Canada and the rest of the world adopt the American method and get something done instead of venting more hot air at conferences like the current one in Montreal? Global consensus isn't always a good thing if nothing ever gets done.
Michel Prévost wrote:
All they seem to want is imitate the american lifestyle.
Considering the Canadian lifestyle isn't much different isn't that a case of trying to deny to others what you already have yourself? Are you willing to sacrifice 1/3 of the Canadian economy to reduce our GHG emissions? 1/3 of your consumption?
Michel Prévost wrote:
If things continue that way, we won't make it to the 22nd century.
Of course people said that about New York at the turn of the 19th century but strangely enough the streets never did fill up with horse manure from all those horses required for all those people. :rolleyes: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein Dave
DRHuff wrote:
Well right now the Americans have done more than Canadians towards an "effective" solution. Why won't Canada and the rest of the world adopt the American method and get something done instead of venting more hot air at conferences like the current one in Montreal? Global consensus isn't always a good thing if nothing ever gets done.
We absolutely have to do our share. But what is the american method? Tell me, I am willing to listen.
DRHuff wrote:
Considering the Canadian lifestyle isn't much different isn't that a case of trying to deny to others what you already have yourself? Are you willing to sacrifice 1/3 of the Canadian economy to reduce our GHG emissions? 1/3 of your consumption?
You are right, we have a lifestyle very similar to America's and that is normal. You are about 10 times our population, and we are geographically very close, so your culture is overwhelming. I live in Canada, but work in the US. I fly every monday morning, and fly back to Canada (Quebec) every thursday or friday. Believe me, I am in a better position than to compare both countries. It is not that I am willing or not to give up 1/3 of my economy, it is a matter that we won't have the choice someday. We are hiding behind that sacro-saint economy to justify our inertia. The office where I work in the US, nobody has a mug. They all use styrofoam cups. In the offices of the company I work for in Quebec, you cannot find a trace of a styrofoam cup. Everybody has a mug. Also, big SUV like the ones I see here in the US (i say here because i am currently in the US) are very rarely seen in Quebec. Yes, we may have America's lifestyle, but to a much lesser extent. Don't judge the lifestyle of canadian on border cities, they are not representative of the rest.
DRHuff wrote:
Of course people said that about New York at the turn of the 19th century but strangely enough the streets never did fill up with horse manure from all those horses required for all those people.
Because they found an alternative. We must follow their example. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson