How sad
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Chris Austin wrote:
I own a few myself. Each has a lock on the trigger also; they are locked in a large combination safe. What kind of moron leaves a loaded gun in their home where a child can get to it?
I agree with you. Those parents are indirectly responsible for the death of their son. They barely missed being termed murderers.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Those parents are indirectly responsible for the death of their son.
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
They barely missed being termed murderers.
Just barely...... Negligent homicide is what comes to my mind. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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A nine-year-old Chicago girl accidentally shot and killed her 13-year-old brother while playing with a semiautomatic handgun found in her parents' bedroom. "She didn't mean to hurt her brother. They were just playing," police Sergeant Dan Dempsey said. What a thing for her and her parents to have to live with. I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
That is precisely why I never have, and never will, have a firearm in my house. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
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That is precisely why I never have, and never will, have a firearm in my house. "Patriotism is the first refuge of a patriot."
Mine were they only things my father left behind besides debt so I can't convince myself to get rid of them. So, I keep them under double lock & key in my garage. When my son comes next year I may have to rethink it. I hope I can find something like a safe deposit box to store them for me. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Those parents are indirectly responsible for the death of their son.
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
They barely missed being termed murderers.
Just barely...... Negligent homicide is what comes to my mind. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
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Chris Austin wrote:
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
Your logic is spurious. I could extend it to owning a car, owning a dog, owning a house, ......, owning anything that can be misused to hurt somebody. In the end, it is the owner's responsibility to make sure that the item is safe and secured. --EDIT Assuming that the product is not defective to begin with. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton -- modified at 22:08 Sunday 18th December, 2005
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Your logic is spurious. I could extend it to owning a car, owning a dog, owning a house, ......, owning anything that can be misused to hurt somebody. In the end, it is the owner's responsibility to make sure that the item is safe and secured. --EDIT Assuming that the product is not defective to begin with. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton -- modified at 22:08 Sunday 18th December, 2005
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So what is the purpose of the back ground checks? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
Josh Gray wrote:
So what is the purpose of the back ground checks?
My understanding is that it is to prevent criminals form legitimately purchasing a firearm not a carte blanche wavier of personal responsibility. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Josh Gray wrote:
So what is the purpose of the back ground checks?
My understanding is that it is to prevent criminals form legitimately purchasing a firearm not a carte blanche wavier of personal responsibility. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
not a carte blanche wavier of personal responsibility
Im not suggesting that it is or that the parents of the children should not be punished or held responsible. As I said in my original post it is a very sad thing and quite unnessasary. I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
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Chris Austin wrote:
not a carte blanche wavier of personal responsibility
Im not suggesting that it is or that the parents of the children should not be punished or held responsible. As I said in my original post it is a very sad thing and quite unnessasary. I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
Josh Gray wrote:
very sad thing and quite unnessasary
We agree then. What eats me up is that is not that hard to prevent this from happening if you own a firearm. Key locks that fit over the trigger are less than $20 US and educating a child about the danger of a firearm is free. That being said, I am scared to death of my son getting a hold of one of my father’s old rifles. Since they were left to me I have never had ammunition in the house; I figure that is a first line of defense on top of the safe and locks. I just dread the day when I will have to show him what a “gun” does to a body; but it worked for me. I never ever pointed a gun at living thing that I didn’t intend to shoot. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton -- modified at 22:46 Sunday 18th December, 2005
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Josh Gray wrote:
very sad thing and quite unnessasary
We agree then. What eats me up is that is not that hard to prevent this from happening if you own a firearm. Key locks that fit over the trigger are less than $20 US and educating a child about the danger of a firearm is free. That being said, I am scared to death of my son getting a hold of one of my father’s old rifles. Since they were left to me I have never had ammunition in the house; I figure that is a first line of defense on top of the safe and locks. I just dread the day when I will have to show him what a “gun” does to a body; but it worked for me. I never ever pointed a gun at living thing that I didn’t intend to shoot. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton -- modified at 22:46 Sunday 18th December, 2005
Chris Austin wrote:
What eats me up is that is not that hard to prevent this from happening if you own a firearm.
Yeah but why tempt fate by owning one in the first place?
Chris Austin wrote:
That being said, I am scared to death of my son getting a hold of one of my father’s old rifles.
Why not have the firing pin ground off and mount them on the wall as a reminder of your father. They can always be restored once your children are older. I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
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Chris Austin wrote:
What eats me up is that is not that hard to prevent this from happening if you own a firearm.
Yeah but why tempt fate by owning one in the first place?
Chris Austin wrote:
That being said, I am scared to death of my son getting a hold of one of my father’s old rifles.
Why not have the firing pin ground off and mount them on the wall as a reminder of your father. They can always be restored once your children are older. I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
Josh Gray wrote:
Why not have the firing pin ground off and mount them on the wall as a reminder of your father.
That's one option. Unfortantly these are model 94 Winchester 30-30s from circa 1900; in short very collectable. So, I don't want to damage them. Also, on the wall is a bit gauche for me. :) What I am leaning toward is off site storage and taking them out and firing them at a target range. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Josh Gray wrote:
Why not have the firing pin ground off and mount them on the wall as a reminder of your father.
That's one option. Unfortantly these are model 94 Winchester 30-30s from circa 1900; in short very collectable. So, I don't want to damage them. Also, on the wall is a bit gauche for me. :) What I am leaning toward is off site storage and taking them out and firing them at a target range. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
That's one option. Unfortantly these are model 94 Winchester 30-30s from circa 1900; in short very collectable. So, I don't want to damage them. Also, on the wall is a bit gauche for me.
Fair enough. My parents had a antique shop when I was a kid and came accross a few things like that. I bet they are a work of art.
Chris Austin wrote:
What I am leaning toward is off site storage
Dont they require regular cleaning and maintanance? Would having them around in a disabled state give you the oportunity to expose your children to guns for their own safety with out the risk of injury? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
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Chris Austin wrote:
That's one option. Unfortantly these are model 94 Winchester 30-30s from circa 1900; in short very collectable. So, I don't want to damage them. Also, on the wall is a bit gauche for me.
Fair enough. My parents had a antique shop when I was a kid and came accross a few things like that. I bet they are a work of art.
Chris Austin wrote:
What I am leaning toward is off site storage
Dont they require regular cleaning and maintanance? Would having them around in a disabled state give you the oportunity to expose your children to guns for their own safety with out the risk of injury? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
Josh Gray wrote:
I bet they are a work of art.
They are beauties....
Josh Gray wrote:
Would having them around in a disabled state give you the oportunity to expose your children to guns for their own safety with out the risk of injury?
Sure...you are 100% correct. But I cannot bring myself to disable them besides a trigger lock and keeping amnuition out of the home. Also, I intend to have the children 'handle' them as often as necassary be it at target range or at home. I just think a person can't be to cautious with a thing like this. So, I am looking at every option available. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Chris Austin wrote:
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
I don't believe that "Stupid" comes up in a background check, but I may be incorrect. And neither does "No Common Sense", for that matter. :sigh: -J
Think of a computer program. Somewhere, there is one key instruction, and everything else is just functions calling themselves, or brackets billowing out endlessly through an infinite address space. What happens when the brackets collapse? Where's the final 'end if'? Is any of this making sense? -Ford Prefect
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Chris Austin wrote:
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
Josh Gray wrote:
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people?
A background check will only bring up past felonies on your record, and it will also stop you from buying a gun if you have ever been in a mental hospital, i believe. "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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Chris Austin wrote:
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
That makes no sense at all. A background check will be on criminal activity, etc. There's no way you can do a character test like you're suggesting. It would make as much sense to not let people have kids before passing such a test ( and don't I wish THAT was possible ) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Chris Austin wrote:
I go further to say they are directly responsible. 1) They failed to eduicate their child about the danger of the weapon. 2) They failed to secure the weapon. 3) They left it loaded in a place where a child could get to it.
So how did they get a gun? I thought there were back ground checks? Could someone not see that they were irresponsible people? I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
How would a background check help in this scenario? Am I missing the part about the parents having a criminal record somewhere? BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
Josh Gray wrote:
I bet they are a work of art.
They are beauties....
Josh Gray wrote:
Would having them around in a disabled state give you the oportunity to expose your children to guns for their own safety with out the risk of injury?
Sure...you are 100% correct. But I cannot bring myself to disable them besides a trigger lock and keeping amnuition out of the home. Also, I intend to have the children 'handle' them as often as necassary be it at target range or at home. I just think a person can't be to cautious with a thing like this. So, I am looking at every option available. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Trigger locks are garbage. Anyone with a small screwdriver can remove them in a few seconds. Secondly the gun can still be fired with a triggerlock in place as it places a rod over the trigger. Believe me I am a reserve deputy and firearm instructor. I know this area very very well. A cable lock that goes through the "magazine" area or through the barrel is best. A safe works. Remove the firing pin and leave that seperate. Even if locked in a safe you need to clean the guns regularly or they will get surface rust. Place a golden rod in the safe or a can of desicant to keep the moisture out.
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Josh Gray wrote:
her parents to have to live with.
Live with!??? Hell they should be jailed themselves. Just because we have the right to own firearms doesn’t mean we have the right to be idiots. It was her parent's responsibility to not only educate them about firearms but secure them from her. I own a few myself. Each has a lock on the trigger also; they are locked in a large combination safe. What kind of moron leaves a loaded gun in their home where a child can get to it? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Mine were they only things my father left behind besides debt so I can't convince myself to get rid of them. So, I keep them under double lock & key in my garage. When my son comes next year I may have to rethink it. I hope I can find something like a safe deposit box to store them for me. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
a safe deposit box
Are you insane? Can you imagine showing up at the door of the bank with your gun collection saying, "Hi, I'd like to store these in your vault."
Software Zen:
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