Funny....
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Given this I supposed we should expect the drivel contained in the rest of your post Like the bit where I said I disagreed with the article ? Bush was an ignorant choice, from where I stand. But I thought the article was unfair all the same. It just left me thinking about how many people voted because they like Bush, or they voted the way they thought God wanted them to. In the late 80's, I went to a church that told us week in, week out that we'd go to hell if we didn't vote for the Christian Democrats. I think hell would be living in a country run by the Christian Democrats, and I'm a Christian. I no longer attend churches that tell me how to vote, but in the USA, religion and politics seem much more intertwined than they are here ( although the abortion debate is hotting up here, that could change a few things ). So I've seen it first hand, and I was curious. I admit that reading the post below mine meant I probably worded things a little more strongly than I first intended, but I'm still keen to know... Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: but I'm still keen to know... I doubt that. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for Kerry before I voted against him." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Stan Shannon wrote: Probably about a million less than the number of babies that have been "terminated" in late term abortions. Probably. What amazes me is that no-one in the USA that I've seen has a remotely sensible attitude to this. On the one hand, there are folks who reckon a woman has total right to kill a baby, virtually until it's born, on the other is the idea that any abortion should be illegal. If we're talking Christianity, surely the example of Jesus is not to legislate, but to make people aware and able to make the right choice because they understand what is right ? Stan Shannon wrote: I couldn't be more serious, and abortion is a perfect example of it. In what way ? Stan Shannon wrote: and I'm telling you that it is an exagerration of looney toon proportions. Those attitudes are not reflected in the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians, fundamentalist or otherwise. It's possible that only the lunatic fringe take the time to post to internet discussion boards, i.e. that my sample is skewed. But I have no idea how many people conform to that standard, and my media is certainly assuring me that they won Bush the election. If that's true or not, I don't know. That's why I asked, because I choose not to believe the media. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: What amazes me is that no-one in the USA that I've seen has a remotely sensible attitude to this. On the one hand, there are folks who reckon a woman has total right to kill a baby, virtually until it's born, on the other is the idea that any abortion should be illegal. If we're talking Christianity, surely the example of Jesus is not to legislate, but to make people aware and able to make the right choice because they understand what is right ? And I think the vast majority of Americans would agree with that, certainly I do. But you have to understand that the issue of abortion has never been decided in a democratic fashion in this country. It was decided by judicial fiat. The reason that happened is because a secular minority were concerned about the hordes of right-wing-christian-fundamentalists actually having a voice, a say, a vote, on the issue (or any issue for that matter). Because of that the extremists on both sides control the debate. Christian Graus wrote: In what way ? In precisely the way I have discribed. I don't know why that seems to be such a subtle point for so many. Government has no more business promoting secularism over christitanity than it does promoting christianity over secularism. "Separation of Church and State" should cover both contingencies - but it seems to always only be used for the latter rather than the former. Christian Graus wrote: It's possible that only the lunatic fringe take the time to post to internet discussion boards, i.e. that my sample is skewed. But I have no idea how many people conform to that standard, and my media is certainly assuring me that they won Bush the election. If that's true or not, I don't know. That's why I asked, because I choose not to believe the media. All I can say is that I felt I was left with two very clear options in this election. I examined how I was going to vote more carefully than I ever have in my life. I wanted to vote againt Bush and tried to come up with any possible way that I could cast a vote for Kerry. The problem I had was the fact that I have never beleived that the diatribe from the left was merely directed at George Bush. I felt it was directed at me, my family, my parents, my grandparents, my children, my neighbors, everyone, in fact, that I have ever known and loved. It was directed at my country - my way of life. The decision was clear cut - to vote for Kerry and cast a
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Christian Graus wrote: but I'm still keen to know... I doubt that. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for Kerry before I voted against him." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: I doubt that. and as I read the balance of the thread I find I'm correct. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for Kerry before I voted against him." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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I think he's suggesting that despite his country having a profound affect on my quality of life, I have no right to ask why they voted in an illiterate moron. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: I have no right to ask why they voted in an illiterate moron. This drivel is indicitive of the level of argument you are going to find here. I would guess that Mr. Bush's education is somewhat superior to yours, his IQ is probably equal or superior to yours, etc.. and yet you continue to call him a illiterate and a moron. But not knowing every thing about Mr. Bush let me, as a one of that ignorant mass of middle american syncopants that voted for him, place myself as an example. I KNOW I am not illiterate, I KNOW my education was far from plebian, I KNOW I am not a moron, and I KNOW that he is the man for the job. Can I prove it to the smoking stinking pot of losers who votes for the LOSER from Mass.I doubt it and furthermore I DON"T CARE. They came, they saw, and they left. Now they will have 4 more years to find another loser to try next time and we have to listen to their excuses and drivel for all that time. Not tom mention those poor Europens and others outside this great nation who were licking their collective lips at getting a wimp lioke Kerry in office. Fat chance Dudes and Dudettes. America first .. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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Don't know about Australia (my experience is limited to what I see daily and I know - German, French, Austrian TV), but you definitely fit the pattern of a man so deeply convinced of his premises that any further discussion with you is a loss of time because you're more interested in making accusations based on your premises then to discuss whether they are right or not. I'd say that leftist all over the world are united in their views and that this is nothing new - it has been around ever since the socialist internationale. From praising Hitler after he signed non agression pact with the Soviets via bashing Maggie and Reagan in the 80ties to anti American propaganda after 9/11. Tomaz
What amuses me is that you prejudge me as totally as you claim I do others. Tomaž Štih wrote: because you're more interested in making accusations based on your premises then to discuss whether they are right or not. Funny, I thought I tried to discuss things here and found people generally unwilling to do so. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Christian Graus wrote: What amazes me is that no-one in the USA that I've seen has a remotely sensible attitude to this. On the one hand, there are folks who reckon a woman has total right to kill a baby, virtually until it's born, on the other is the idea that any abortion should be illegal. If we're talking Christianity, surely the example of Jesus is not to legislate, but to make people aware and able to make the right choice because they understand what is right ? And I think the vast majority of Americans would agree with that, certainly I do. But you have to understand that the issue of abortion has never been decided in a democratic fashion in this country. It was decided by judicial fiat. The reason that happened is because a secular minority were concerned about the hordes of right-wing-christian-fundamentalists actually having a voice, a say, a vote, on the issue (or any issue for that matter). Because of that the extremists on both sides control the debate. Christian Graus wrote: In what way ? In precisely the way I have discribed. I don't know why that seems to be such a subtle point for so many. Government has no more business promoting secularism over christitanity than it does promoting christianity over secularism. "Separation of Church and State" should cover both contingencies - but it seems to always only be used for the latter rather than the former. Christian Graus wrote: It's possible that only the lunatic fringe take the time to post to internet discussion boards, i.e. that my sample is skewed. But I have no idea how many people conform to that standard, and my media is certainly assuring me that they won Bush the election. If that's true or not, I don't know. That's why I asked, because I choose not to believe the media. All I can say is that I felt I was left with two very clear options in this election. I examined how I was going to vote more carefully than I ever have in my life. I wanted to vote againt Bush and tried to come up with any possible way that I could cast a vote for Kerry. The problem I had was the fact that I have never beleived that the diatribe from the left was merely directed at George Bush. I felt it was directed at me, my family, my parents, my grandparents, my children, my neighbors, everyone, in fact, that I have ever known and loved. It was directed at my country - my way of life. The decision was clear cut - to vote for Kerry and cast a
Stan Shannon wrote: Government has no more business promoting secularism over christitanity than it does promoting christianity over secularism. Sure, I agree. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Christian Graus wrote: I have no right to ask why they voted in an illiterate moron. This drivel is indicitive of the level of argument you are going to find here. I would guess that Mr. Bush's education is somewhat superior to yours, his IQ is probably equal or superior to yours, etc.. and yet you continue to call him a illiterate and a moron. But not knowing every thing about Mr. Bush let me, as a one of that ignorant mass of middle american syncopants that voted for him, place myself as an example. I KNOW I am not illiterate, I KNOW my education was far from plebian, I KNOW I am not a moron, and I KNOW that he is the man for the job. Can I prove it to the smoking stinking pot of losers who votes for the LOSER from Mass.I doubt it and furthermore I DON"T CARE. They came, they saw, and they left. Now they will have 4 more years to find another loser to try next time and we have to listen to their excuses and drivel for all that time. Not tom mention those poor Europens and others outside this great nation who were licking their collective lips at getting a wimp lioke Kerry in office. Fat chance Dudes and Dudettes. America first .. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Richard Stringer wrote: I would guess that Mr. Bush's education is somewhat superior to yours Almost certainly Richard Stringer wrote: his IQ is probably equal or superior to yours I'd say that is irrelevant. However, even if it's true, intelligence is no proof of wisdom. Richard Stringer wrote: I KNOW I am not illiterate, I KNOW my education was far from plebian, I KNOW I am not a moron, and I KNOW that he is the man for the job. What's the job ? The end of the world ? Or just the USA rebuilt as the Empire of the new Millenium ? Richard Stringer wrote: America first .. Empire then ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Mike Gaskey wrote: I doubt that. and as I read the balance of the thread I find I'm correct. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for Kerry before I voted against him." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Hey, I asked a question, and instead of answering, most people chose to attack me. The USA is allowed to attack people they think MIGHT be a threat one day, but I'm not allowed to respond when people attack me today ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Given this I supposed we should expect the drivel contained in the rest of your post Like the bit where I said I disagreed with the article ? Bush was an ignorant choice, from where I stand. But I thought the article was unfair all the same. It just left me thinking about how many people voted because they like Bush, or they voted the way they thought God wanted them to. In the late 80's, I went to a church that told us week in, week out that we'd go to hell if we didn't vote for the Christian Democrats. I think hell would be living in a country run by the Christian Democrats, and I'm a Christian. I no longer attend churches that tell me how to vote, but in the USA, religion and politics seem much more intertwined than they are here ( although the abortion debate is hotting up here, that could change a few things ). So I've seen it first hand, and I was curious. I admit that reading the post below mine meant I probably worded things a little more strongly than I first intended, but I'm still keen to know... Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Once again some of the programs that Mike and co were complaining about the bbc showing were about how the Republicans courted the evangelicals in the 80's as before that the churches mostly kept out of politics. From the impression they gave in the programs it is now accepted practice for the evangelical christians to mix politics and religion. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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Hey, I asked a question, and instead of answering, most people chose to attack me. The USA is allowed to attack people they think MIGHT be a threat one day, but I'm not allowed to respond when people attack me today ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Once again some of the programs that Mike and co were complaining about the bbc showing were about how the Republicans courted the evangelicals in the 80's as before that the churches mostly kept out of politics. From the impression they gave in the programs it is now accepted practice for the evangelical christians to mix politics and religion. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: Once again some of the programs that Mike and co were complaining about the bbc showing were about how the Republicans courted the evangelicals in the 80's as before that the churches mostly kept out of politics. From the impression they gave in the programs it is now accepted practice for the evangelical christians to mix politics and religion. It is very true that the church in the US has, until the last few decades, respected its appropriate place in US politics. But than, the government also respected it and did not overtly discriminate against religious sensibilities. It wasn't until the government began to overtly marginalize the church in American life that many on that side began to feel that their only option to survive was to become politically invovled.
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Nitron wrote: I don't care if the rest of the world doesn't like us very much, sometimes making the right decision makes you unpopular. So what. Just because the US is unpopular, doesn't mean it made the right decision. Actually, when the US makes the right decision, it tends to increase in popularity. i.e., the Marshall plan. When the US makes the wrong decision, it tends to become unpopular, i.e. Vietnam, Iraq, Panama, etc. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: Just because the US is unpopular, doesn't mean it made the right decision. I guess I just don't understand why you care? Is your country so dependant on the US that you actually care who our leader is? Does it bother you at all that I don't even know who the president of Australia is? (Actually I don't even know if you have a president/king/queen/prime minister/emporer/phaero.) I don't tell you who you should vote for or try to convince you about Foster's or Mic Dundee. I think if the US influences your life so much, you have some re-structuring of your own to do. We're not even in the same hemisphere. ~Nitron.
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Christian Graus wrote: Just because the US is unpopular, doesn't mean it made the right decision. I guess I just don't understand why you care? Is your country so dependant on the US that you actually care who our leader is? Does it bother you at all that I don't even know who the president of Australia is? (Actually I don't even know if you have a president/king/queen/prime minister/emporer/phaero.) I don't tell you who you should vote for or try to convince you about Foster's or Mic Dundee. I think if the US influences your life so much, you have some re-structuring of your own to do. We're not even in the same hemisphere. ~Nitron.
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startNitron wrote: I guess I just don't understand why you care? Then your world view is incredibly myopic. You honestly believe that the USA does not have the power to change my life, through things like unfair trade agreements, bullying us into war and so on ? Where do you think you live, Bulgaria ? You live in the last superpower, a country that is not scared to throw it's weight around and bully people around the world. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Nitron wrote: I guess I just don't understand why you care? Then your world view is incredibly myopic. You honestly believe that the USA does not have the power to change my life, through things like unfair trade agreements, bullying us into war and so on ? Where do you think you live, Bulgaria ? You live in the last superpower, a country that is not scared to throw it's weight around and bully people around the world. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: Then your world view is incredibly myopic. This is an incredibly valid statement. In fact, I care more about the election for county mayor than I do for the president. Christian Graus wrote: You live in the last superpower, a country that is not scared to throw it's weight around and bully people around the world. Have you assessed China recently? Now I for one would worry about who they put in power. And what is keeping you from being a superpower? What does the US have that Australia doesn't have? (Hint: the answer is between your legs) ~Nitron.
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Christian Graus wrote: Then your world view is incredibly myopic. This is an incredibly valid statement. In fact, I care more about the election for county mayor than I do for the president. Christian Graus wrote: You live in the last superpower, a country that is not scared to throw it's weight around and bully people around the world. Have you assessed China recently? Now I for one would worry about who they put in power. And what is keeping you from being a superpower? What does the US have that Australia doesn't have? (Hint: the answer is between your legs) ~Nitron.
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startNitron wrote: And what is keeping you from being a superpower? What does the US have that Australia doesn't have? (Hint: the answer is between your legs) Nah, I think the answer looks like that, but it's on your heads. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Christian Graus wrote: Then your world view is incredibly myopic. This is an incredibly valid statement. In fact, I care more about the election for county mayor than I do for the president. Christian Graus wrote: You live in the last superpower, a country that is not scared to throw it's weight around and bully people around the world. Have you assessed China recently? Now I for one would worry about who they put in power. And what is keeping you from being a superpower? What does the US have that Australia doesn't have? (Hint: the answer is between your legs) ~Nitron.
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startNitron wrote: county mayor Since when do counties have mayors?
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Stan Shannon wrote: Probably about a million less than the number of babies that have been "terminated" in late term abortions. Probably. What amazes me is that no-one in the USA that I've seen has a remotely sensible attitude to this. On the one hand, there are folks who reckon a woman has total right to kill a baby, virtually until it's born, on the other is the idea that any abortion should be illegal. If we're talking Christianity, surely the example of Jesus is not to legislate, but to make people aware and able to make the right choice because they understand what is right ? Stan Shannon wrote: I couldn't be more serious, and abortion is a perfect example of it. In what way ? Stan Shannon wrote: and I'm telling you that it is an exagerration of looney toon proportions. Those attitudes are not reflected in the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians, fundamentalist or otherwise. It's possible that only the lunatic fringe take the time to post to internet discussion boards, i.e. that my sample is skewed. But I have no idea how many people conform to that standard, and my media is certainly assuring me that they won Bush the election. If that's true or not, I don't know. That's why I asked, because I choose not to believe the media. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: It's possible that only the lunatic fringe take the time to post to internet discussion boards, i.e. that my sample is skewed. But I have no idea how many people conform to that standard, and my media is certainly assuring me that they won Bush the election. If that's true or not, I don't know. That's why I asked, because I choose not to believe the media. The vast majority of the people I know and work with tend to view religion and their beliefs as a private matter. The people on the fringe that you refer to are no more or less dedicated than the people on the other side of the debate. Most Americans tend to be very live and let live about how they deal with other peoples opinions. In this forum as well as many other online forums you tend to see a collection of younger more liberal people than the general population. Being in my 40's and having seen enough of life, I tend to understand other people's view regardless of whether I believe in them or not. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Hey, I asked a question, and instead of answering, most people chose to attack me. The USA is allowed to attack people they think MIGHT be a threat one day, but I'm not allowed to respond when people attack me today ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: Hey, I asked a question, and instead of answering, most people chose to attack me. u asked a question, but within that question you fired a general broadside not only at Bush but at the americans...i don't blame them for getting stroppy with ya Christian Actually i reckon you were stirring cheerypip Bryce --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids book :The Snot Goblin
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Nitron wrote: county mayor Since when do counties have mayors?