Can someone over 30 learn to program?
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I've actually been recommending friends to learn VB instead of jumping into VC++. I learned the C -> C++ -> VC++/MFC path, and then moved onto "simpler" languages such as VB/VBScript so maybe I'm telling them the wrong things. Is it possible that by learning VB first, and then moving to C++ it may acutally be harder, since they learn bad habits with VB? Or will it in fact be better since it gives them a conceptual idea of what programming is all about without bothering them with the subtleties
I really think the "C -> C++ -> VC++/MFC path," is best for learning VC++ and also quite possibly C#. It's important to learn low level stuff like boolean algebra and a sprinkling of assemmbler stuff early on and I personally think this is best to learn in ancient C . ( you can get quite dirty playing about in C ) The jump to VC++/MFC from C++ , I consider the biggest due to the Windows OS. There is a big diffence in VB and C++, But it probably doesnt hurt to learn it along-side C. I went from a fortran/Cobol background straight into VC++6, And it was a large jolt ! Although I have two profitable VC++ apps on the market, and build Com objects etc. I still miss not knowing C and C++ very well.
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Can someone over 30 " still " program? Just joking as I'm over 30. As you get older it becomes harder to learn new concepts, And even harder if you use Alcohol or Drugs ! However it is possible, Just remember a lot of young smart folks still drop out of programming, "So it's not for everyone." I rate linguistic skills as high as math skills for use in programming. As programming is language use. Also jumping straight into Visual C++ is daunting, " I know, I did " I recomend learn C plus assembler and then C++ And then get C sharped as a course of action. My 2 cents. Regardz Colin Davies
Colin Interesting point of view... "I rate linguistic skills as high as math skills for use in programming. As programming is language use." I've also tried many times to learn French, and failed miserably, so maybe I'm linguistically challenged. I have good math skills so I thought programming would be easier than it is turning out to be. Maybe the problem is really linguistic knowledge... although as my wife likes to tell... don't rule out stupidity entirely. LOL Having ADD probably doesn't help, either. Anyway... I am in awe of you guys... the ones who can churn out that code effortlessly. TM
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Colin Interesting point of view... "I rate linguistic skills as high as math skills for use in programming. As programming is language use." I've also tried many times to learn French, and failed miserably, so maybe I'm linguistically challenged. I have good math skills so I thought programming would be easier than it is turning out to be. Maybe the problem is really linguistic knowledge... although as my wife likes to tell... don't rule out stupidity entirely. LOL Having ADD probably doesn't help, either. Anyway... I am in awe of you guys... the ones who can churn out that code effortlessly. TM
My math background made me very comfortable in main frame's batch-mode with Algol, FORTRAN, Pascal, or C, C++ where I knew the exact outcome of what I wrote. This same precision/attitude became a source of frustration when I started with MFC which does a million things behind my back (and I didn't have time to dig into MFC source code). Now, I can churn out MFC-code, but I still don't feel in control. Take away my VC++ visual stuff and wizards, I would freeze. I no longer program, I assemble code. I don't force myself to know everything I use. Nothing wrong with your linguistic skills, it's your expectation and attitude wrt programming
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Colin Interesting point of view... "I rate linguistic skills as high as math skills for use in programming. As programming is language use." I've also tried many times to learn French, and failed miserably, so maybe I'm linguistically challenged. I have good math skills so I thought programming would be easier than it is turning out to be. Maybe the problem is really linguistic knowledge... although as my wife likes to tell... don't rule out stupidity entirely. LOL Having ADD probably doesn't help, either. Anyway... I am in awe of you guys... the ones who can churn out that code effortlessly. TM
TM as we are in the " Lounge " I'll hapily digress , I also had problems learning human languages from books and teachers at school. But after having travelled at lived in other cultures, I found, that I could quickly pick up a language if I lived with and in it TM. Interstingly I believe one of the main advantages of learning other languages was the ability to understand English better. Also I think I learn languages very analytically. As I also am a Math type person. Math also can be called a language ! But in daily life it has minimum communication ability. If you take your average Swiss citizen who is fluent in at least two languages, He/She seems to be able to learn another language very quickly. The same with us programmers, Joe who is fluent in Cobol,Pascal and VB can learn VC++ quickly. There is one field of linguistic thinking that the language that you principally use allows, you to think in a certain manner. eg I have heard Hungarian's are great at Math as there language is meant to be math structure like. Anyhow TM stick with it, hope you manage to break down your barrier
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TM as we are in the " Lounge " I'll hapily digress , I also had problems learning human languages from books and teachers at school. But after having travelled at lived in other cultures, I found, that I could quickly pick up a language if I lived with and in it TM. Interstingly I believe one of the main advantages of learning other languages was the ability to understand English better. Also I think I learn languages very analytically. As I also am a Math type person. Math also can be called a language ! But in daily life it has minimum communication ability. If you take your average Swiss citizen who is fluent in at least two languages, He/She seems to be able to learn another language very quickly. The same with us programmers, Joe who is fluent in Cobol,Pascal and VB can learn VC++ quickly. There is one field of linguistic thinking that the language that you principally use allows, you to think in a certain manner. eg I have heard Hungarian's are great at Math as there language is meant to be math structure like. Anyhow TM stick with it, hope you manage to break down your barrier
I have to agree. Whether it is language, math, chemistry, or programming... it is hard to pick it up until you start to see and understand the "big picture." I guess I'm still struggling with the big picture of how "programming works." Once the big picture is comprehended it is all just "drill down" after that to pick up more refined details through experience, experiment, and mistakes. I literally have 15 different beginner programming books on my shelf trying to understand the elusive "big picture." But as someone else wisely pointed out the big picture is an abstraction until you try and solve problems, create solutions, and play with it. And in my case, since I'm not a natural, I guess I probably need to be in a directed environment to get maximum value out the learning experience. The books definitely ain't doing it. But I got thinking about sports... you can always tell the difference between someone who has played a sport their whole life and someone who picked it up as an adult... the first is a natural and the second usually looks forced. But heck... I'm not looking to be Johnny van Neuman... I'd just like to get something other than "Hello World" on my screen. TM
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Would love to hear from someone over 30 who has successfully learned to program. I'm wondering if my neural matter is just totally congealed... or if it is actually possible to pick up high level programming, when you start until your in your 30s. I've got a lot of programming books wasting away on the shelves, and I don't seem to be that much further ahead than I was when I started. Is this an age thing? Or just plain stupidity?
I work with a 43-year-old astronomer who's learning Windows, DCOM, MFC, and ATL (with my tutelage) from having spent all the time programming in FORTRAN and C...:) Don't let your age scare you... Cheers, Bria
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Would love to hear from someone over 30 who has successfully learned to program. I'm wondering if my neural matter is just totally congealed... or if it is actually possible to pick up high level programming, when you start until your in your 30s. I've got a lot of programming books wasting away on the shelves, and I don't seem to be that much further ahead than I was when I started. Is this an age thing? Or just plain stupidity?
Yes, but you'll be 33 until you'll get a good level. The learning ability is huge at 18, but at 30 the experience is the main factor, not neural speed... Look at the soccer players: they are natural forces at 19, imprevisible at 22, excellent at 27, very experienced ay 31 and history at 35. The main trouble is that, when programming, your human experience can't be too helpful. You'll be a 30 years old teenager programmer. But what a heck, if you don't try, you'll never know. Why not? Use your brain maturity to avoid time wasting, select from the start the operating system and the programming language(s) and read other peoples' examples as many as possible
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Would love to hear from someone over 30 who has successfully learned to program. I'm wondering if my neural matter is just totally congealed... or if it is actually possible to pick up high level programming, when you start until your in your 30s. I've got a lot of programming books wasting away on the shelves, and I don't seem to be that much further ahead than I was when I started. Is this an age thing? Or just plain stupidity?
Certainly! That's not a question of age but one of motivation. If you can't learn to program perhaps it is a question of motivation or organisation. If you can't learn to program, learn something else just to wake up your brain. Later you will be in shape to program. Bye, Claud
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Certainly! That's not a question of age but one of motivation. If you can't learn to program perhaps it is a question of motivation or organisation. If you can't learn to program, learn something else just to wake up your brain. Later you will be in shape to program. Bye, Claud
It sounds easy to just learn something... to wake the brain up... but mine just might be in a coma. It's been a long time since I've done any deep thinking about anything. When I was in grad school, studying physiology, it was exhilarating to try and understand the mechanism and first principles that governed the workings of the human body. My thesis work was the most intellectually stimulating stuff I have ever done since. Since then it has been mostly superficial memorizing of facts or rules... with some basic conceptual modelling thrown in. Nothing very heavy, and now I wonder if I am even capable of the deep thought required to understand the abstract world of programming. Mind you I have received some excellent suggestions that I'm going to put to good use. But my question is this... how does a semi-burned out, work-a-daddy, with plenty of family and business obligations... actually wake up his brain? Review and regurgitation--most of the learning I do these days--doesn't seem very helpful in learning programming... but my brain is in a deep sleep and I need to give it a cold shower. How??? TM But
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It sounds easy to just learn something... to wake the brain up... but mine just might be in a coma. It's been a long time since I've done any deep thinking about anything. When I was in grad school, studying physiology, it was exhilarating to try and understand the mechanism and first principles that governed the workings of the human body. My thesis work was the most intellectually stimulating stuff I have ever done since. Since then it has been mostly superficial memorizing of facts or rules... with some basic conceptual modelling thrown in. Nothing very heavy, and now I wonder if I am even capable of the deep thought required to understand the abstract world of programming. Mind you I have received some excellent suggestions that I'm going to put to good use. But my question is this... how does a semi-burned out, work-a-daddy, with plenty of family and business obligations... actually wake up his brain? Review and regurgitation--most of the learning I do these days--doesn't seem very helpful in learning programming... but my brain is in a deep sleep and I need to give it a cold shower. How??? TM But
TM, (my rant for the day). One big problem you might be having is trying to understand everything at once ! And possibly would be better breaking it up into small pieces. Look TM, I have been working on my current project for 3 months, but last week in 4 days I rewrote the whole project from scratch ! So what happend in the other 12 weeks ? No, I didn't waste my time, I was learning ! Possibly TM, what you require is a small project to work on, Rather than concentrating on learning. Also try to purely get the project/application to work, rather than trying to make the program an example of excellent coding practice. The thing I enjoy about programming most is that I am always learning something new. Also what is good about OO programing, is you don't have to create great classes to have a top application. You can use/alter someone elses free class or tools ! After altering some elses class several times, You'll find you'll be able to rewrite it for your own usage ! So get a small project to work on , Even if it isn't useful. Also try to discover the time of day that your brain functions best. Most males brins seem to work better in the morning, when they are more receptive to new ideas, (I saw that info on a documentary so I've adopted an approach of studying in the mornings, and working afternoons or evenings) Regardz Colin.