Another attack?
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Stan Shannon wrote: Murderous assholes exist in every society and every culture. Yes, unfortunately. Stan Shannon wrote: The question you have to ask is how can so many of these guys exist in a closely knit community without a signigicant number of their neighbors not having some suspicion about what they are up to. So many? How many are we talking about here? Dozens, hundreds? Or just 2 or 3? Are you proposing that neighbors start snooping and spying on each other, and reporting activities they deem suspicious to the authorities? There are plenty of countries that already have that system well in place: North Korea, China, Cuba. Is that where you want us to be, Stan? Throw in a one-party system of government, ran by the extreme right (of course), and we'll be good to go, right? Alvaro
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.
Alvaro Mendez wrote: So many? How many are we talking about here? Dozens, hundreds? Or just 2 or 3? Sure, the recruiters and trainers just magically contacted the 2 or 3 who were willing to blow themselves up. ESP you know. Alvaro Mendez wrote: Are you proposing that neighbors start snooping and spying on each other, Yes. The entire foundation of democracy is that we, as free people, are willing to use our freedoms responsibly. When it becomes obvious that some in our communities are not, then we, as responsible citizens, must take action. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Stan Shannon wrote: I am convinced that "moderate" must be some middle eastern word for "coward". It could be rather relgious than middle eastern. Maybe Heaven forbids telling on a brother.
Anonymous wrote: Maybe Heaven forbids telling on a brother. We cannot allow that to be an excuse. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Grrr. Was on the tube (not any of the lines affected) coming back from a meeting via Liverpool Street. If these moronic freaks hate us and our culture so much why don't they just fuck off and leave us alone? Answer: cos they's rather we all fell in under their rule of hate and fear. Nice religion. Remind me to sign up. When hell has frozen, melted and frozen again. Which is where these twats should be. Now. Yes, I'm bloody angry again.
The true price of freedom is war.
Thankfully it looks like the idiots fucked up their bomb recipie. All that studying of the 3 'Q's must have taken its toll. This time, we might actualy get closer to hearing the full story from their tacit supporters (what lovely boys, we would never have thought they were murderous fanatics, they just liked going to the mosque,bush is evil, etc), as we have one of them alive. Shame we can't just stick a bag on their head and pack themn and their pals off on the next gulfsteam to Syria.
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: So many? How many are we talking about here? Dozens, hundreds? Or just 2 or 3? Sure, the recruiters and trainers just magically contacted the 2 or 3 who were willing to blow themselves up. ESP you know. Alvaro Mendez wrote: Are you proposing that neighbors start snooping and spying on each other, Yes. The entire foundation of democracy is that we, as free people, are willing to use our freedoms responsibly. When it becomes obvious that some in our communities are not, then we, as responsible citizens, must take action. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Yes. The entire foundation of democracy is that we, as free people, are willing to use our freedoms responsibly. When it becomes obvious that some in our communities are not, then we, as responsible citizens, must take action. I can only refer you to this quote from Benjamin Franklin, which I believe: "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither." Alvaro
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.
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Stan Shannon wrote: Yes. The entire foundation of democracy is that we, as free people, are willing to use our freedoms responsibly. When it becomes obvious that some in our communities are not, then we, as responsible citizens, must take action. I can only refer you to this quote from Benjamin Franklin, which I believe: "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither." Alvaro
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.
Alvaro Mendez wrote: "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither." I really resent when American icons are used to defend modern, Marxist idealogies. I don't think you have a clue about what Franklin meant. Fraklin would not have hesitated to monitor his neighbors activities if he thought he could save the lives of his other neighbors, and would have thought it an absurd notion that to do so was a sacrifice of anyone's liberty. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Stan Shannon wrote: Yes. The entire foundation of democracy is that we, as free people, are willing to use our freedoms responsibly. When it becomes obvious that some in our communities are not, then we, as responsible citizens, must take action. I can only refer you to this quote from Benjamin Franklin, which I believe: "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither." Alvaro
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.
Just as valid: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing Edmund Burke No one proposed the sacrifice of basic freedoms, Rather that it is time to act against evil in our midst. If my neigbor were to come home tonight stinking of explosives, perhaps with burns on his clothing, I would insure that he got an opportunity to explain that to the authorities. How many muslims in London will do the same tonight? Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not. Eric Hoffer
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: "Those who are willing to sacrifice their basic liberties to assure their security deserve neither." I really resent when American icons are used to defend modern, Marxist idealogies. I don't think you have a clue about what Franklin meant. Fraklin would not have hesitated to monitor his neighbors activities if he thought he could save the lives of his other neighbors, and would have thought it an absurd notion that to do so was a sacrifice of anyone's liberty. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: I really resent when American icons are used to defend modern, Marxist idealogies. Marxist ideologies? :laugh: "Hey, let's go pay an surprise visit to our neighbor Ahmed tonight. Who knows, he could be planning a terrorist attack." Sounds Marxist to me. Stan Shannon wrote: I don't think you have a clue about what Franklin meant. Oh I do, all too well. Still, I'd be curious to see how you spin it. Stan Shannon wrote: Fraklin would not have hesitated to monitor his neighbors activities if he thought he could save the lives of his other neighbors, and would have thought it an absurd notion that to do so was a sacrifice of anyone's liberty. Unfortunately terrorists don't wear T-shirts that say "Death by explosion, there's nothing like it!". So who do you monitor? The guy with the funny accent? The guy who looks different? Hey, I have an idea, how about we monitor EVERYONE! Yes! It's the only way to be sure. Let's keep an eye on what everyone else does and as soon as something looks strange, call the police and lock them up until they can prove that they're innocent. We, the good guys, will still have our liberty, won't we? X|
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.
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Stan Shannon wrote: I really resent when American icons are used to defend modern, Marxist idealogies. Marxist ideologies? :laugh: "Hey, let's go pay an surprise visit to our neighbor Ahmed tonight. Who knows, he could be planning a terrorist attack." Sounds Marxist to me. Stan Shannon wrote: I don't think you have a clue about what Franklin meant. Oh I do, all too well. Still, I'd be curious to see how you spin it. Stan Shannon wrote: Fraklin would not have hesitated to monitor his neighbors activities if he thought he could save the lives of his other neighbors, and would have thought it an absurd notion that to do so was a sacrifice of anyone's liberty. Unfortunately terrorists don't wear T-shirts that say "Death by explosion, there's nothing like it!". So who do you monitor? The guy with the funny accent? The guy who looks different? Hey, I have an idea, how about we monitor EVERYONE! Yes! It's the only way to be sure. Let's keep an eye on what everyone else does and as soon as something looks strange, call the police and lock them up until they can prove that they're innocent. We, the good guys, will still have our liberty, won't we? X|
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.
Alvaro Mendez wrote: Marxist ideologies? If not Marx, than who? Your concerns certainly have no basis in the Jeffersonian ideal, they have no basis in any historic analysis of American values at all. If you recall in "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." that "life" comes before liberty. Any one who is willing to tolerate murder because to do otherwise would threaten liberty isn't just stupid, their insane. Do you feel that you are a better American than the members of the "greatest" generation who tolerated the internment of Japanese-Americans? Are you a better American than the WWI generation who allowed Wilson to abuse the rights of German-Americans? Are you a better American than the Civil War generation that allowed Lincoln's administration to lock up anyone who spoke publically against its policies? I think not, and I'm pretty sure that Ol' Ben would not have thought so either. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: Marxist ideologies? If not Marx, than who? Your concerns certainly have no basis in the Jeffersonian ideal, they have no basis in any historic analysis of American values at all. If you recall in "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." that "life" comes before liberty. Any one who is willing to tolerate murder because to do otherwise would threaten liberty isn't just stupid, their insane. Do you feel that you are a better American than the members of the "greatest" generation who tolerated the internment of Japanese-Americans? Are you a better American than the WWI generation who allowed Wilson to abuse the rights of German-Americans? Are you a better American than the Civil War generation that allowed Lincoln's administration to lock up anyone who spoke publically against its policies? I think not, and I'm pretty sure that Ol' Ben would not have thought so either. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: If not Marx, than who? Your concerns certainly have no basis in the Jeffersonian ideal, they have no basis in any historic analysis of American values at all. If you recall in "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." that "life" comes before liberty. For a guy who values freedom and liberty somehow you don't mind applying some of Marx's policies (as used by communist nations) to keep the population in line. Of course life comes first. But life without liberty is not worth living. The Chinese, North Koreans, and Cubans all have life. And they don't worry about terrorists attacks. Are they better off than we are? Of course not. Stan Shannon wrote: Any one who is willing to tolerate murder because to do otherwise would threaten liberty isn't just stupid, their insane. I never said anything about tolerating murder. In fact, I firmly believe in the death penalty; it's the only way to guarantee hard criminals don't commit additional crimes. We need to handle these terrorists much like we handle all other criminals. Find them, arrest them, investigate where they came from, and kill them all. But in doing so, we should avoid sacrificing our liberties and our way of life -- what separates us from Marxist regimes. Stan Shannon wrote: Do you feel that you are a better American than the members of the "greatest" generation who tolerated the internment of Japanese-Americans? Are you a better American than the WWI generation who allowed Wilson to abuse the rights of German-Americans? Are you a better American than the Civil War generation that allowed Lincoln's administration to lock up anyone who spoke publically against its policies? I think not, and I'm pretty sure that Ol' Ben would not have thought so either. It's a different time. We're not fighting Japan, Germany, or a civil war. Alvaro
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. -- GWB, 1999.