Things like this make me sad...
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... and kinda angry. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/03/road.rage.ap/index.html[^] BROCKTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- A man lifting his infant daughter out of his car was killed in an apparent case of road rage by a motorist "who obviously exploded" and shot him four times at close range in front of dozens of witnesses, authorities said. He pleaded innocent and was ordered held without bail; a hearing was scheduled for August 26. X| :(( -J
Think of a computer program. Somewhere, there is one key instruction, and everything else is just functions calling themselves, or brackets billowing out endlessly through an infinite address space. What happens when the brackets collapse? Where's the final 'end if'? Is any of this making sense? -Ford Prefect
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... and kinda angry. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/03/road.rage.ap/index.html[^] BROCKTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- A man lifting his infant daughter out of his car was killed in an apparent case of road rage by a motorist "who obviously exploded" and shot him four times at close range in front of dozens of witnesses, authorities said. He pleaded innocent and was ordered held without bail; a hearing was scheduled for August 26. X| :(( -J
Think of a computer program. Somewhere, there is one key instruction, and everything else is just functions calling themselves, or brackets billowing out endlessly through an infinite address space. What happens when the brackets collapse? Where's the final 'end if'? Is any of this making sense? -Ford Prefect
I've seen road rage first hand a couple of times (not against me, but while I have been a passenger or an observer), and the thing that always amazes me is how disproportionaly angry the person who starts it off always is. They got held up for two seconds, a minor inconvienience and they burst into a violent rage, verbally assaulting anyone who steps in, damaging vehicles, and whilst I thankfully haven't seen it get to that stage yet, physically attacking people. In this case a guy left the scene, dropped his wife off at a railway station then returned with a handgun to shoot the other man? How the hell does someone get into that state?
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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I've seen road rage first hand a couple of times (not against me, but while I have been a passenger or an observer), and the thing that always amazes me is how disproportionaly angry the person who starts it off always is. They got held up for two seconds, a minor inconvienience and they burst into a violent rage, verbally assaulting anyone who steps in, damaging vehicles, and whilst I thankfully haven't seen it get to that stage yet, physically attacking people. In this case a guy left the scene, dropped his wife off at a railway station then returned with a handgun to shoot the other man? How the hell does someone get into that state?
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
I'm not sure how it gets this bad. I've had someone try to run me off the road on a 4 story tall flyover just because I wasn't letting him in after he passed a long line of traffic in the shoulder. At least that guy didn't follow me home. There is something about driving a vehicle that makes some people nuts. You would think that more people would be better drivers with nut cases like this one out on the roads. -J
Think of a computer program. Somewhere, there is one key instruction, and everything else is just functions calling themselves, or brackets billowing out endlessly through an infinite address space. What happens when the brackets collapse? Where's the final 'end if'? Is any of this making sense? -Ford Prefect
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... and kinda angry. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/03/road.rage.ap/index.html[^] BROCKTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- A man lifting his infant daughter out of his car was killed in an apparent case of road rage by a motorist "who obviously exploded" and shot him four times at close range in front of dozens of witnesses, authorities said. He pleaded innocent and was ordered held without bail; a hearing was scheduled for August 26. X| :(( -J
Think of a computer program. Somewhere, there is one key instruction, and everything else is just functions calling themselves, or brackets billowing out endlessly through an infinite address space. What happens when the brackets collapse? Where's the final 'end if'? Is any of this making sense? -Ford Prefect
Only a couple of notes on the topic: It sometimes makes me really happy to know that I live in a country, where not everybody is running around with a gun. Seriously, I don't understand why its so easy to get in gun in the us (and many other countries). Here (germany) its close to impossible (unless you start hanging out with the gangsters) to get hold of anything more dangerous then a hairdryer or a butterknife (right, you can have gun-replicas, but sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken). I believe that one of the reasons why people turning into monsters especially in the states, is, that fear is an omnipresent element of your day-to-day life. I've been living in NYC for a couple of years and I have never seen more fearful people then the americans. But the only thing to fear is fear itself. No offense here, just my modest opinion [plus I hardly had any sleep last night]... /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams] -
I've seen road rage first hand a couple of times (not against me, but while I have been a passenger or an observer), and the thing that always amazes me is how disproportionaly angry the person who starts it off always is. They got held up for two seconds, a minor inconvienience and they burst into a violent rage, verbally assaulting anyone who steps in, damaging vehicles, and whilst I thankfully haven't seen it get to that stage yet, physically attacking people. In this case a guy left the scene, dropped his wife off at a railway station then returned with a handgun to shoot the other man? How the hell does someone get into that state?
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
Put too many rats in a box and they will start to kill one another. I think the root cause of incidents like this, and a lot of other anti-social behavior, is that people are too crowded. There are just too many people in too small an area. The traffic bottlenecks, lines at the supermarket, etc, that are indicators of this are the little things that cause tension to build until it explodes in an irrational manner. I observed a weird phenomenon in California in the latter years of my stay there. People coming to a stop light in their cars would stop 2, 3 or more car lengths from the car in front of them. Absolutely no logical reason for it, and by doing so they would make traffic congestion much worse; cars behind them that wanted to get in to a turn lane would have to wait for the next cycle of the traffic lights, when, if the clowns had pulled to within a reasonable distance of the car in front, it should have been possible for traffic to move more smoothly. I think what drove this behavior was the unconscious desire of people to get some space for themselves, where they weren't crowded bumper to bumper by strangers. Since moving to Wyoming I haven't seen people do this; nor have I heard of any road rage incidents. People have elbow room here, and it's reflected in a reduction of anti-social behavior of this sort.
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Only a couple of notes on the topic: It sometimes makes me really happy to know that I live in a country, where not everybody is running around with a gun. Seriously, I don't understand why its so easy to get in gun in the us (and many other countries). Here (germany) its close to impossible (unless you start hanging out with the gangsters) to get hold of anything more dangerous then a hairdryer or a butterknife (right, you can have gun-replicas, but sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken). I believe that one of the reasons why people turning into monsters especially in the states, is, that fear is an omnipresent element of your day-to-day life. I've been living in NYC for a couple of years and I have never seen more fearful people then the americans. But the only thing to fear is fear itself. No offense here, just my modest opinion [plus I hardly had any sleep last night]... /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams]More people are murdered with knives. You want to ban those? matthias s. wrote: Here (germany) its close to impossible (unless you start hanging out with the gangsters) Bingo! Think about it, gangsters have guns, law abiding citizens do not. I guess your gun control laws didnt get the guns out of their hands, but it got the guns out of the law abiding citizens hands :wtf: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field.
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More people are murdered with knives. You want to ban those? matthias s. wrote: Here (germany) its close to impossible (unless you start hanging out with the gangsters) Bingo! Think about it, gangsters have guns, law abiding citizens do not. I guess your gun control laws didnt get the guns out of their hands, but it got the guns out of the law abiding citizens hands :wtf: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field.
kgaddy wrote: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field. I seriously doubt that handing out weapons to everybody will make life a easier. :~ Basically we (europe) would end up being like you (us): full of fear and not trusting the person walking next to us. When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? When was the last time you were drunk fell asleep on a bus riding the complete city without any worries? I could go and sleep on almost any parkbench of this multimillion city I live in (berlin) and I'm pretty sure, none of the armed gangsters would kill me. Maybe a bum would come over and claim his bed, but bums don't have guns either. How many of those involved into roadrage are real gangsters anyway? /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams] -
kgaddy wrote: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field. I seriously doubt that handing out weapons to everybody will make life a easier. :~ Basically we (europe) would end up being like you (us): full of fear and not trusting the person walking next to us. When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? When was the last time you were drunk fell asleep on a bus riding the complete city without any worries? I could go and sleep on almost any parkbench of this multimillion city I live in (berlin) and I'm pretty sure, none of the armed gangsters would kill me. Maybe a bum would come over and claim his bed, but bums don't have guns either. How many of those involved into roadrage are real gangsters anyway? /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams]Gee, I live in the US, and I don't live my life in fear. And I live in a state where it's legal to stroll down the street with a sidearm on your belt. matthias s. wrote: When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? Why don't you ask that of the family of the kid who had an axe placed in his skull last week in England? Or is it your assertion that these things only happen in the US? [edit] You'll also note that this violent murder took place in a country where the general populace isn't allowed to own guns. Didn't stop that murder, did it? I've also noted a number of stories out of the UK in recent years where people have committed murder/mayhem with swords. If someone is driven to murder, presence or lack of firearms is irrelevant.[/edit]
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More people are murdered with knives. You want to ban those? matthias s. wrote: Here (germany) its close to impossible (unless you start hanging out with the gangsters) Bingo! Think about it, gangsters have guns, law abiding citizens do not. I guess your gun control laws didnt get the guns out of their hands, but it got the guns out of the law abiding citizens hands :wtf: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field.
kgaddy wrote: I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field. hmm really? I'd imagine right opposite... better shoot first then let 'em defend with their gun. I dunno.. no time to think twice. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
Gee, I live in the US, and I don't live my life in fear. And I live in a state where it's legal to stroll down the street with a sidearm on your belt. matthias s. wrote: When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? Why don't you ask that of the family of the kid who had an axe placed in his skull last week in England? Or is it your assertion that these things only happen in the US? [edit] You'll also note that this violent murder took place in a country where the general populace isn't allowed to own guns. Didn't stop that murder, did it? I've also noted a number of stories out of the UK in recent years where people have committed murder/mayhem with swords. If someone is driven to murder, presence or lack of firearms is irrelevant.[/edit]
LunaticFringe wrote: I don't live my life in fear hmm is it you who ride a bike in insane speed down the hill without helmet? :rolleyes: Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
LunaticFringe wrote: I don't live my life in fear hmm is it you who ride a bike in insane speed down the hill without helmet? :rolleyes: Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
No wonder you don't have fear! :-D Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
kgaddy wrote: I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field. hmm really? I'd imagine right opposite... better shoot first then let 'em defend with their gun. I dunno.. no time to think twice. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
Gee, I live in the US, and I don't live my life in fear. And I live in a state where it's legal to stroll down the street with a sidearm on your belt. matthias s. wrote: When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? Why don't you ask that of the family of the kid who had an axe placed in his skull last week in England? Or is it your assertion that these things only happen in the US? [edit] You'll also note that this violent murder took place in a country where the general populace isn't allowed to own guns. Didn't stop that murder, did it? I've also noted a number of stories out of the UK in recent years where people have committed murder/mayhem with swords. If someone is driven to murder, presence or lack of firearms is irrelevant.[/edit]
LunaticFringe wrote: Why don't you ask that of the family of the kid who had an axe placed in his skull last week in England? Or is it your assertion that these things only happen in the US? No, I didn't say we don't have any crime here. But there is an awful lot more in the US. Various statistics have the US as the top runners for crime in the world, except the countries where war is raging. Excample.[^] Excerpt:
Looking at the above statistics, one would think that Europe is soft on crime, while the U.S. approach to law and order is based on no-nonsense deterrence. In reality, Europe is relatively crime-free, and the U.S. has the worst crime rate in the world:
Murders committed with handguns annually:
United States 8,915
Switzerland 53
Sweden 19
Canada 8
United Kingdom 7Murder rate (per 100,000 people):
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
Germany 4.20
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Finland 0.70/matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams] -
LunaticFringe wrote: Why don't you ask that of the family of the kid who had an axe placed in his skull last week in England? Or is it your assertion that these things only happen in the US? No, I didn't say we don't have any crime here. But there is an awful lot more in the US. Various statistics have the US as the top runners for crime in the world, except the countries where war is raging. Excample.[^] Excerpt:
Looking at the above statistics, one would think that Europe is soft on crime, while the U.S. approach to law and order is based on no-nonsense deterrence. In reality, Europe is relatively crime-free, and the U.S. has the worst crime rate in the world:
Murders committed with handguns annually:
United States 8,915
Switzerland 53
Sweden 19
Canada 8
United Kingdom 7Murder rate (per 100,000 people):
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
Germany 4.20
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Finland 0.70/matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams]Since guns are not readily available in most of the countries you list, comparing murders committed with guns is comparing apples to oranges. I assume you included those stats in an attempt to engender an emotional response. As for the rest, just because you've included numbers doesn't make them fact. Furthermore, if they are correct (something I don't accept without further proof), you have not demonstrated (or even attempted to) a link between the rates and the presence of guns. I'd be more inclined to look elsewhere; other social factors that lead people to become violent. You're attempting to define a causal relationship between phenomena that are not necessarily even related.
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kgaddy wrote: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field. I seriously doubt that handing out weapons to everybody will make life a easier. :~ Basically we (europe) would end up being like you (us): full of fear and not trusting the person walking next to us. When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? When was the last time you were drunk fell asleep on a bus riding the complete city without any worries? I could go and sleep on almost any parkbench of this multimillion city I live in (berlin) and I'm pretty sure, none of the armed gangsters would kill me. Maybe a bum would come over and claim his bed, but bums don't have guns either. How many of those involved into roadrage are real gangsters anyway? /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams]Guns aren't the problem. Even had he not had a gun, the guy who perpetrated that incident would have attacked his victim with anything he could find (a lug wrench would have been just as fatal). As another post above points out, overcrowding is more likely to play a role, as is the constant brain washing we get from a media that focuses on every incident of violence, often making it seem as if these were commonplace rather than rare. See tomaz' earlier post comparing the crime statistics per capita between the US and Sweden. You might be surprised to see the numbers, which suggest that Sweden is no safer that the US, in spite of the absence of guns in the general population. And NYC is hardly a representative place for developing an opinion about the behavior of people in entire US, it has always been a rather hostile place for visitors (even from other parts of the US), in my opinion. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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kgaddy wrote: Personally I would like to see all law abiding citizens (the people I do not worry about) have guns. I think the gangsters would think twice about using theirs. Kinda leveling the playing field. I seriously doubt that handing out weapons to everybody will make life a easier. :~ Basically we (europe) would end up being like you (us): full of fear and not trusting the person walking next to us. When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? When was the last time you were drunk fell asleep on a bus riding the complete city without any worries? I could go and sleep on almost any parkbench of this multimillion city I live in (berlin) and I'm pretty sure, none of the armed gangsters would kill me. Maybe a bum would come over and claim his bed, but bums don't have guns either. How many of those involved into roadrage are real gangsters anyway? /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
[Douglas Adams]matthias s. wrote: asically we (europe) would end up being like you (us): full of fear and not trusting the person walking next to us. You confuse us with the French, no fear here matthias s. wrote: When was the last time you had a relaxed nice walk through a park in the middle of the night with your girlfriend? 2 weekends ago, replace girfriend with wife. matthias s. wrote: When was the last time you were drunk fell asleep on a bus riding the complete city without any worries? When I was a kid at 20. I grew up since then. matthias s. wrote: could go and sleep on almost any parkbench of this multimillion city I live in (berlin) and I'm pretty sure, none of the armed gangsters would kill me. Maybe a bum would come over and claim his bed, but bums don't have guns either. Why not go home to sleep? Is this common in Germany?
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The point being. If gangster know that the citizens are unarmed, they see it as an opportunity. If the citizens were armed the gangsters would think the risk is too great.
Some evidence to support your view: If gun-owning is so dangerous and such a cause of social ills, then surely the most dangerous place in America - if not the entire planet - must be Kennesaw, Georgia [a suburb of Atlanta], where since 1982 a law has required every household to have a firearm and ammunition. (Conscientious objectors are excluded.) There has not been a single reported crime of domestic violence in Kennesaw since the law was passed. There have been no injuries to children involving guns since the law was passed. Furthermore, violence has actually dropped since 1982. Burglaries per thousand inhabitants fell from 11 to less than 3. There hasn't been a single murder since 1986. All this despite the fact that the population in Kennesaw doubled in that time. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Some evidence to support your view: If gun-owning is so dangerous and such a cause of social ills, then surely the most dangerous place in America - if not the entire planet - must be Kennesaw, Georgia [a suburb of Atlanta], where since 1982 a law has required every household to have a firearm and ammunition. (Conscientious objectors are excluded.) There has not been a single reported crime of domestic violence in Kennesaw since the law was passed. There have been no injuries to children involving guns since the law was passed. Furthermore, violence has actually dropped since 1982. Burglaries per thousand inhabitants fell from 11 to less than 3. There hasn't been a single murder since 1986. All this despite the fact that the population in Kennesaw doubled in that time. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Some evidence to support your view: If gun-owning is so dangerous and such a cause of social ills, then surely the most dangerous place in America - if not the entire planet - must be Kennesaw, Georgia [a suburb of Atlanta], where since 1982 a law has required every household to have a firearm and ammunition. (Conscientious objectors are excluded.) There has not been a single reported crime of domestic violence in Kennesaw since the law was passed. There have been no injuries to children involving guns since the law was passed. Furthermore, violence has actually dropped since 1982. Burglaries per thousand inhabitants fell from 11 to less than 3. There hasn't been a single murder since 1986. All this despite the fact that the population in Kennesaw doubled in that time. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Link? Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy