Questions for the Regime
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The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. They were asked to declare an emergency and they did. It is up to the state to ask for what they need. That did not happen. In other words it like this, you call me and say "I need help!" I say "what do you need?" you say "Hang on a sec" and then it's too late. Then you want to blame me? Remember: They (LA) asked to declare an emergency, the feds did. Bush asked Blanco if she wanted the National Guard. Blanco said she needed 24 hours to make my her mind. The feds cannot do anything without the permission of the state. So yes peterchen, in this case it failed. BUT, the voters will decide if they want to elect local officls in the future that can handel the stress of such a diaster.
kgaddy wrote: Blanco said she needed 24 hours to make my her mind. Do you have a source on that? I've never heard that.
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Jim A. Johnson wrote: Utterly, completely, and totally untrue: Maybe u want to vet your sources a little more: This leftist site with a homemade timeline is wrong: 1) Under Aug 26 there is this... http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html Should be under Sept 1. (not very timely) Also, The mayor of NO told CNN that when offerd troops BEFORE the storm, she refused saying she needed 24 hours to think it over.
No. What the "leftist" homemade timeline actually said was: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. Care to point out any more "discrepencies"?
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1. Why does the sole responsibility rest on the Bush administration when these dire warnings have been talked about for decades? What responsibility rests with the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana? 2. Legitimate question. 3. What exactly could the Feds have done that the state and city could have and should have already done? I have looked at the evacuation plans and the "last resort refuges" like the Superdome are mentioned, but the plan mentions nothing about how to deal with 100,000 people in the LRRs. I see inadequate planning by the state and city. Should the Feds review all plans and contingency plans? That should be the question rather than laying blame on the administration. 4. Legitimate question. I have also heard that the Red Cross turned away some resources. If so why? 5. Hurricans hit the US several times every year. We didn't know Katrina was a Cat 5 until a day or so before it struck. Even then we don't know what kind of damage it will do or if it will fizzle or turn away. Where was Congress suring all of this? On recess. 6. Legitimate question for FEMA and HSD. 7. Bureaucracy sux. 8. Doesn't the governor have to request troops? Like a state soverienty issue? 9. Legitimate question, but the blame should not rest solely on Bush. 10. Legitimate question, but I think this is bureaucracy for you. 11. It's human nature to CYA. It should not be tolerated. Ever. 12. Valid point. 13. Good questions. But we need to be patient, form a committee, have hearings, etc. :sigh:
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blog-- modified at 17:52 Wednesday 7th September, 2005
I will give you a 5 for providing a honest cool headed response. We are so consumed by finding fault, when we would be so much better off by looking at what happened and what could be done better. I wonder how many complaining of ineptitude have ever handled a meeting for a few hundred people. Now make that thousands and have to have that at an unknown location, with distribution through channels of unknown condition. Yes a better job could have been done. But for right now learn from it, if fault is all you want the real story of what should be corrected will be buried in political rhetoric. My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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Your imperviousness to facts is astounding, Stan. Really. You'd be in the Guinness book if there weren't so many others in this country who are equally dense.
There are billions of facts in the universe, Jim. You pick yours, and I'll pick mine. But prop your banners up with Katrina's dead, they can't carry it for you no more. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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:laugh: From now on, your country will go by "Divided States of America" for me.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: From now on, your country will go by "Divided States of America" for me. It has been, ever since the Democrats lost the 2000 election. This particular catastrophe could have brought the country together but the left in particular and the Democrats in general decided to use the event to discredit the Bush administration, instead of dealing with the problems. It began with the New Orleans mayor trying to cover his ass and followed with the governor doing exactly the same thing. The nation Democrat leadership is worse. Here is a prime example, from the head[^] of the Democrat party. But it is playing out differently amongst the real people, for example: CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH? Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows: Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion. MORE Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion. Point in fact, as you can no doubt tell from the US posters here, there is a movement to the right (American style right) that has been underway for several years, actually beginning with the "Contract With America" in 1994. Prior to that, the Democrats controlled everything. The "Contract With America" caused a huge shift in national politics and the De
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kgaddy wrote: BTW CNN poll shows the blame goes mostly to the local goverments and not the feds. Of course, why do you think Bush is down there?
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
Alvaro Mendez wrote: Of course, why do you think Bush is down there? and if he were not, your position would be? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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I will give you a 5 for providing a honest cool headed response. We are so consumed by finding fault, when we would be so much better off by looking at what happened and what could be done better. I wonder how many complaining of ineptitude have ever handled a meeting for a few hundred people. Now make that thousands and have to have that at an unknown location, with distribution through channels of unknown condition. Yes a better job could have been done. But for right now learn from it, if fault is all you want the real story of what should be corrected will be buried in political rhetoric. My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: We are so consumed by finding fault We? Michael A. Barnhart wrote: My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. the governor, and if I am not mistaken, the mayor could have simply ordered it. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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What about having a look? And no, I'm not thinking about W himself, but some guy who can see and tell what has to be done?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
kgaddy wrote: Blanco said she needed 24 hours to make my her mind. Do you have a source on that? I've never heard that.
NAGIN: She said that she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen, and more people died. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/05/ltm.01.html
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kgaddy wrote: BTW CNN poll shows the blame goes mostly to the local goverments and not the feds. Of course, why do you think Bush is down there?
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
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kgaddy wrote: I cannot believe I have to answer this. So, because the one in charge failed, you want to blame the other guy who is busy with another goverment because he did not break the laws of the system in place to help when he did not know exactly what the state needed or lacked because the govenor failed to act and inform the feds what it needed! Of course! Should hundreds (or thousands) of people be left to die because of some law? Your house is burning down, everyone sees it, it's on all the news channels, it's being watched by the fire departments. Yet, they don't do anything because they have a rule that they have to wait until you, the owner, calls them. So now it's your fault that the fire department didn't come to put out the fire. kgaddy wrote: But is it Bush's fault she took so long? No, it's Bush's fault he took so long[^].
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999. -- modified at 18:05 Wednesday 7th September, 2005
This is getting pointless, but I'll try again: Alvaro Mendez wrote: Yet, they don't do anything because they have a rule that they have to wait until you, the owner, calls them. Fist of all there is no such law, but I'll play the make believe game and go along. If there were a law it was becase somebody sued subody becase the firemen went in and turned the hose on and knocked a child out of the window or something like that. So, in this crazy situation, yes they will let your house burn. Alvaro Mendez wrote: So now it's your fault that the fire department didn't come to put out the fire. Lets put this closer to the point. The state has a plan that the fire dept must follow. If the state fire dept fails, are you going to blame the federal fire dept? So the federal fire dept finally comes with water hoses but it turns out it was a chemical fire that water will not put it out. Well the federal fire dept didnt know...because the state did not follow the plan!!!!! But go ahead, keep blaming the feds.
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kgaddy wrote: that makes the American people roll their eyes and say "whatever". not only in the DSA :rolleyes: It#s just weird... your obsession with the next election, and the thought that noone would fail if they'd just be republicans is sick.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: It#s just weird... your obsession with the next election, and the thought that noone would fail if they'd just be republicans is sick. This (2004) was the first time I voted for a Republican. I voted Clinton twice and Harry Brown in 2000. I think a Democrat can do just as good in office, sadly, the Democrats have not put anyone worth voting for. And the direction they are taking makes me belive they never will. Hopfully I'm wrong. On the flip side, if you could vote in the USa would you ever vote for a Republican for pres? If not is that sick?
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I will give you a 5 for providing a honest cool headed response. We are so consumed by finding fault, when we would be so much better off by looking at what happened and what could be done better. I wonder how many complaining of ineptitude have ever handled a meeting for a few hundred people. Now make that thousands and have to have that at an unknown location, with distribution through channels of unknown condition. Yes a better job could have been done. But for right now learn from it, if fault is all you want the real story of what should be corrected will be buried in political rhetoric. My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. It was already in the LA disaster plan. The link was provided earlier in the thread. The mayor did nothing.
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: We are so consumed by finding fault We? Michael A. Barnhart wrote: My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. the governor, and if I am not mistaken, the mayor could have simply ordered it. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: We? yes, I see people from corporate politics to goverment politics spend far more time finding blame and making sure they are not to blame than working for what is best every day. So it is a collective we as a human race. Mike Gaskey wrote: the governor, and if I am not mistaken, the mayor could have simply ordered it. Under what authority? I have never lived anywhere that the school district was not independant of the other entities. My local public schools are the FWISD = The Fort Worth Independant School District. Our mayor has zero involvment and the district and city boundaries have nothing in common. Yes there is state funding, but I know of no "conditions" in line with this. I would approve of condition being part however. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. It was already in the LA disaster plan. The link was provided earlier in the thread. The mayor did nothing.
kgaddy wrote: It was already in the LA disaster plan. No I have not gone down every link. So maybe I am missing it, but the school system is not public transportation or local transportation. So as I read what I have, I find this resource lacking. If I am wrong the I will say good for the plan, but why did I not see or hear of one school bus being used? Selective news media coverage? I see bus after bus bringing people to Texas, all chartered. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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clueless f**cking demo-scum-crats. wake the f**ck up you idiots, I think most people will eventually see thru this "blame bush b.s." and realize hey, those dufus's in NO didn't do anything, didn't even follow their own plan, so now let's all blame somebody else... FEMA is not a first responder, ie. it is a FEDERAL agency. so first the city, then state SHOULD have handled this mess. there have been all too many articles criticizing the clueless people of LA about their non-existent efforts to do anything until it's too late. like, why didn't LA follow their own state emergency plan ? seen all those pix of hundreds of school buses IN WATER because NO gov sat on his fatt butt not doing anything ? ABC NEWS[^] Who's to Blame for Delayed Response to Katrina? New Orleans' Emergency Plan Not Followed, Federal Government Slow to Take Lead Sep. 6, 2005 - In New Orleans, those in peril and those in power have pointed the finger squarely at the federal government for the delayed relief effort. But experts say when natural disasters strike, it is the primary responsibility of state and local governments -- not the federal government -- to respond. New Orleans' own comprehensive emergency plan raises the specter of "having large numbers of people ... stranded" and promises "the city ... will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." "Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves," the plan states. When Hurricane Katrina hit, however, that plan was not followed completely. Instead of sending city buses to evacuate those who could not make it out on their own, people in New Orleans were told to go to the Superdome and the Convention Center, where no one provided sufficient sustenance or security. 'Lives Would Have Been Saved' New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said "80 percent" of the city was evacuated before the storm hit, but Bob Williams says that's not good enough. Williams dealt with emergency response issues as a state representative in Washington when his district was forced to deal with the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980. "If the plan were implemented, lives would have been saved," Williams said. There's no question the federal government plays a major role in disaster relief. But federal officials say in order to ge
I think the point here is that Pres. Bush as executive of the United States had the power to get troops and supplies moving quickly - Look at the structure of your government - most agencies - including Homeland Security is under the executive branch - not congress. Congress controls the purse string at budget time, and this might need additional moneys - but I would asume that an emergency response agency, like FEMA, must have sufficient supplies to cover sudden costs of emergencies. He had an opportunity to take the bull by the horns and impress the electorate. In stead he toddled around the country making ill informed comments like - "I don't think anyone expected the levees to break" It's not that he should have - it's that he could have sent in emergency suppies and troops and any wise president, trying to impress the electorate for his Republican sucessor would have. The LA governor(ess) looks like she might have screwed up by not being more forceful with evacuation orders and mobilizing those school buses for example. That is for the electorate of LA to decide.
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: Of course, why do you think Bush is down there? and if he were not, your position would be? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: and if he were not, your position would be? I don't know. He appears to be doing what any leader would do after a horrible disaster happens: see it firsthand, talk to the experts to understand how to best proceed, and finally announce a plan of action for recovery. Unfortunately, based on the things Bush said on the ground, and how he and agencies like FEMA have handled this and other problems in the past, I can't help but feel that he's there for damage control -- federal damage control. "OK people, the sh*t hit the fan, some mistakes were made [FEMA screwed up big time], but good ol' George is here now to make it all better. So don't worry about the mistakes -- we'll um... investigate them -- just know that we're here to save you. [And don't forget it when the next election comes around, ya hear?]" Did you catch the Daily Show[^] last night? It will give you a great idea of how I and many people feel about this whole thing. Alvaro
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
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I think the point here is that Pres. Bush as executive of the United States had the power to get troops and supplies moving quickly - Look at the structure of your government - most agencies - including Homeland Security is under the executive branch - not congress. Congress controls the purse string at budget time, and this might need additional moneys - but I would asume that an emergency response agency, like FEMA, must have sufficient supplies to cover sudden costs of emergencies. He had an opportunity to take the bull by the horns and impress the electorate. In stead he toddled around the country making ill informed comments like - "I don't think anyone expected the levees to break" It's not that he should have - it's that he could have sent in emergency suppies and troops and any wise president, trying to impress the electorate for his Republican sucessor would have. The LA governor(ess) looks like she might have screwed up by not being more forceful with evacuation orders and mobilizing those school buses for example. That is for the electorate of LA to decide.
Well said, and I agree.
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
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kgaddy wrote: It was already in the LA disaster plan. No I have not gone down every link. So maybe I am missing it, but the school system is not public transportation or local transportation. So as I read what I have, I find this resource lacking. If I am wrong the I will say good for the plan, but why did I not see or hear of one school bus being used? Selective news media coverage? I see bus after bus bringing people to Texas, all chartered. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
The evacuation plan states that "Local transportation resources should be marshaled and public transportation plans implemented as needed. Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs." It also says that the Governor will "Mobilize State transportation resources to aid in the evacuation of people who have mobility and/or health problems. Deploy to support risk area parishes." Key phrase:"Mobilize State transportation resources" http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/plansindex.htm
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I will give you a 5 for providing a honest cool headed response. We are so consumed by finding fault, when we would be so much better off by looking at what happened and what could be done better. I wonder how many complaining of ineptitude have ever handled a meeting for a few hundred people. Now make that thousands and have to have that at an unknown location, with distribution through channels of unknown condition. Yes a better job could have been done. But for right now learn from it, if fault is all you want the real story of what should be corrected will be buried in political rhetoric. My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf[^] Under ASSUMPTIONS on page 13 of 45: 5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating. My take on why these buses weren't used - it was every man for himself. Everyone was bugging out of town and they probably couldn't find drivers. Plans are good, and elaborate plans like this are great, but if you don't have any organization to back them up they are worthless pieces of paper. Did they have secondary plans for getting people food and water once they got to the last resort refuges or were they going to rely on the Feds? "For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks."