Questions for the Regime
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. It was already in the LA disaster plan. The link was provided earlier in the thread. The mayor did nothing.
kgaddy wrote: It was already in the LA disaster plan. No I have not gone down every link. So maybe I am missing it, but the school system is not public transportation or local transportation. So as I read what I have, I find this resource lacking. If I am wrong the I will say good for the plan, but why did I not see or hear of one school bus being used? Selective news media coverage? I see bus after bus bringing people to Texas, all chartered. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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clueless f**cking demo-scum-crats. wake the f**ck up you idiots, I think most people will eventually see thru this "blame bush b.s." and realize hey, those dufus's in NO didn't do anything, didn't even follow their own plan, so now let's all blame somebody else... FEMA is not a first responder, ie. it is a FEDERAL agency. so first the city, then state SHOULD have handled this mess. there have been all too many articles criticizing the clueless people of LA about their non-existent efforts to do anything until it's too late. like, why didn't LA follow their own state emergency plan ? seen all those pix of hundreds of school buses IN WATER because NO gov sat on his fatt butt not doing anything ? ABC NEWS[^] Who's to Blame for Delayed Response to Katrina? New Orleans' Emergency Plan Not Followed, Federal Government Slow to Take Lead Sep. 6, 2005 - In New Orleans, those in peril and those in power have pointed the finger squarely at the federal government for the delayed relief effort. But experts say when natural disasters strike, it is the primary responsibility of state and local governments -- not the federal government -- to respond. New Orleans' own comprehensive emergency plan raises the specter of "having large numbers of people ... stranded" and promises "the city ... will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." "Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves," the plan states. When Hurricane Katrina hit, however, that plan was not followed completely. Instead of sending city buses to evacuate those who could not make it out on their own, people in New Orleans were told to go to the Superdome and the Convention Center, where no one provided sufficient sustenance or security. 'Lives Would Have Been Saved' New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said "80 percent" of the city was evacuated before the storm hit, but Bob Williams says that's not good enough. Williams dealt with emergency response issues as a state representative in Washington when his district was forced to deal with the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980. "If the plan were implemented, lives would have been saved," Williams said. There's no question the federal government plays a major role in disaster relief. But federal officials say in order to ge
I think the point here is that Pres. Bush as executive of the United States had the power to get troops and supplies moving quickly - Look at the structure of your government - most agencies - including Homeland Security is under the executive branch - not congress. Congress controls the purse string at budget time, and this might need additional moneys - but I would asume that an emergency response agency, like FEMA, must have sufficient supplies to cover sudden costs of emergencies. He had an opportunity to take the bull by the horns and impress the electorate. In stead he toddled around the country making ill informed comments like - "I don't think anyone expected the levees to break" It's not that he should have - it's that he could have sent in emergency suppies and troops and any wise president, trying to impress the electorate for his Republican sucessor would have. The LA governor(ess) looks like she might have screwed up by not being more forceful with evacuation orders and mobilizing those school buses for example. That is for the electorate of LA to decide.
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: Of course, why do you think Bush is down there? and if he were not, your position would be? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: and if he were not, your position would be? I don't know. He appears to be doing what any leader would do after a horrible disaster happens: see it firsthand, talk to the experts to understand how to best proceed, and finally announce a plan of action for recovery. Unfortunately, based on the things Bush said on the ground, and how he and agencies like FEMA have handled this and other problems in the past, I can't help but feel that he's there for damage control -- federal damage control. "OK people, the sh*t hit the fan, some mistakes were made [FEMA screwed up big time], but good ol' George is here now to make it all better. So don't worry about the mistakes -- we'll um... investigate them -- just know that we're here to save you. [And don't forget it when the next election comes around, ya hear?]" Did you catch the Daily Show[^] last night? It will give you a great idea of how I and many people feel about this whole thing. Alvaro
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
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I think the point here is that Pres. Bush as executive of the United States had the power to get troops and supplies moving quickly - Look at the structure of your government - most agencies - including Homeland Security is under the executive branch - not congress. Congress controls the purse string at budget time, and this might need additional moneys - but I would asume that an emergency response agency, like FEMA, must have sufficient supplies to cover sudden costs of emergencies. He had an opportunity to take the bull by the horns and impress the electorate. In stead he toddled around the country making ill informed comments like - "I don't think anyone expected the levees to break" It's not that he should have - it's that he could have sent in emergency suppies and troops and any wise president, trying to impress the electorate for his Republican sucessor would have. The LA governor(ess) looks like she might have screwed up by not being more forceful with evacuation orders and mobilizing those school buses for example. That is for the electorate of LA to decide.
Well said, and I agree.
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
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kgaddy wrote: It was already in the LA disaster plan. No I have not gone down every link. So maybe I am missing it, but the school system is not public transportation or local transportation. So as I read what I have, I find this resource lacking. If I am wrong the I will say good for the plan, but why did I not see or hear of one school bus being used? Selective news media coverage? I see bus after bus bringing people to Texas, all chartered. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
The evacuation plan states that "Local transportation resources should be marshaled and public transportation plans implemented as needed. Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs." It also says that the Governor will "Mobilize State transportation resources to aid in the evacuation of people who have mobility and/or health problems. Deploy to support risk area parishes." Key phrase:"Mobilize State transportation resources" http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/plansindex.htm
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I will give you a 5 for providing a honest cool headed response. We are so consumed by finding fault, when we would be so much better off by looking at what happened and what could be done better. I wonder how many complaining of ineptitude have ever handled a meeting for a few hundred people. Now make that thousands and have to have that at an unknown location, with distribution through channels of unknown condition. Yes a better job could have been done. But for right now learn from it, if fault is all you want the real story of what should be corrected will be buried in political rhetoric. My one question is what laws need to be enacted so every school bus (public) in the southern part of the state could have been mobilized. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf[^] Under ASSUMPTIONS on page 13 of 45: 5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating. My take on why these buses weren't used - it was every man for himself. Everyone was bugging out of town and they probably couldn't find drivers. Plans are good, and elaborate plans like this are great, but if you don't have any organization to back them up they are worthless pieces of paper. Did they have secondary plans for getting people food and water once they got to the last resort refuges or were they going to rely on the Feds? "For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks."
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kgaddy wrote: The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. So hundreds (or thousands) died because those that could help sat around waiting for the assistance to be specifically requested by the governor, while they all watched the media screaming that help was urgently needed? Good thing the governor finally requested the assistance, right? Otherwise the federal government would still be waiting. :|
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
As far as I know, Blanco still has not turned over command of the La. National gaurd to the forces under Gen. Honore. They are operating separately under Witts (Clinton FEMA Director) who Blanco has called in to "coordinate". In addition, it was under Bloanco's orders theat the La National guard prevented (and still prevents today) the Red Cross from entering N.O.. Blanco and the mayor are currently argueing over who has the right to order a forced evacuation (eviction) of the remaining residents who don't want to leave the city (neither has theat authority, it would appear, since you can't order the forcible eviction of someone from his own property without a court order - you can keep them out of puplic proprety and off the public streets, but you can't drag them out of their oun house). There is plenty of blame to go around, but disaster plans start with the first responders, and those are owned by the city and state. The first response plan clearly sucked, and bureaucratic red tape on the part of the State and the Fed did not improve on a terrible beginning. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Our opposition party has assembled a set of questions for the Bush clan regarding the response to Katrina: Questions for Bush[^] My question for our rabid righties is: Are these questions fair, and should they be answered? Dying for your response.. and his.
Couldn't you at least wait until the dead are burried before you politicize this disaster? The left are worse than vultures. Shame. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Couldn't you at least wait until the dead are burried before you politicize this disaster? The left are worse than vultures. Shame. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Rob Graham wrote: Couldn't you at least wait until the dead are burried before you politicize this disaster? The dead are dead. There's nothing that can be done about them. If most of them had died as a direct result of the hurricane, the same way the victims of 9/11 were a direct result of terrorist attacks, then I would agree with you. The whole country (and the world) would probably still be in mourning today, especially as more bodies continued to be found. But the fact is that many have died as a result of inaction on the part of people that, for whatever reason, responded way too late. And we just can't sit back pondering about the dead while those people are not held responsible for their actions, or lack thereof. "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"... says a lot, doesn't it?
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
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peterchen wrote: From now on, your country will go by "Divided States of America" for me. It has been, ever since the Democrats lost the 2000 election. This particular catastrophe could have brought the country together but the left in particular and the Democrats in general decided to use the event to discredit the Bush administration, instead of dealing with the problems. It began with the New Orleans mayor trying to cover his ass and followed with the governor doing exactly the same thing. The nation Democrat leadership is worse. Here is a prime example, from the head[^] of the Democrat party. But it is playing out differently amongst the real people, for example: CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH? Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows: Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion. MORE Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion. Point in fact, as you can no doubt tell from the US posters here, there is a movement to the right (American style right) that has been underway for several years, actually beginning with the "Contract With America" in 1994. Prior to that, the Democrats controlled everything. The "Contract With America" caused a huge shift in national politics and the De
it's nice to see that whaever happens, it's all the Democrats fault. You club ain't any better, Mike.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
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As silly as blaming Bush for the Katrina damage, it is cheap to blame the NO governor. As I already replied to Mike: If your plan fails because of one person failing, the plan sucks. New Orleans isn't that far out of the way. A drone/helicopter/JU 52 from a nearby army base, and one guy who has seen such things before could have said a few hours after the breach "we need the army down there. situation is out of control". What "got you into that mess" IMO: noone noticed, or had the guts to decide, that something unusual had to be done to limit the damage. (And that's my only blame towards Bush: If noone else does in the line below him, it is his job.) Everybody seemed to be sitting around thinking "it's someone elses responsibility".
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf[^] Under ASSUMPTIONS on page 13 of 45: 5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating. My take on why these buses weren't used - it was every man for himself. Everyone was bugging out of town and they probably couldn't find drivers. Plans are good, and elaborate plans like this are great, but if you don't have any organization to back them up they are worthless pieces of paper. Did they have secondary plans for getting people food and water once they got to the last resort refuges or were they going to rely on the Feds? "For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks."
Thanks, I had not read over the assumptions. Jason Henderson wrote: My take on why these buses weren't used It also assumes the districts then had a plan to provide drivers and service the busses out of normal schedules. I doubt that was done. But maybe will in the future. Jason Henderson wrote: if you don't have any organization to back them up Agree totaly. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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As silly as blaming Bush for the Katrina damage, it is cheap to blame the NO governor. As I already replied to Mike: If your plan fails because of one person failing, the plan sucks. New Orleans isn't that far out of the way. A drone/helicopter/JU 52 from a nearby army base, and one guy who has seen such things before could have said a few hours after the breach "we need the army down there. situation is out of control". What "got you into that mess" IMO: noone noticed, or had the guts to decide, that something unusual had to be done to limit the damage. (And that's my only blame towards Bush: If noone else does in the line below him, it is his job.) Everybody seemed to be sitting around thinking "it's someone elses responsibility".
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: JU 52 I dont think we use those! Does Germany still have them in use? peterchen wrote: And that's my only blame towards Bush: If noone else does in the line below him, it is his job. Well he did. peterchen wrote: Everybody seemed to be sitting around thinking "it's someone elses responsibility". Not everyone, it WAS someone's responsibility. An investigation will determine this and it hopfully will be be clear next time something like this happens.
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Mike Gaskey wrote: and if he were not, your position would be? I don't know. He appears to be doing what any leader would do after a horrible disaster happens: see it firsthand, talk to the experts to understand how to best proceed, and finally announce a plan of action for recovery. Unfortunately, based on the things Bush said on the ground, and how he and agencies like FEMA have handled this and other problems in the past, I can't help but feel that he's there for damage control -- federal damage control. "OK people, the sh*t hit the fan, some mistakes were made [FEMA screwed up big time], but good ol' George is here now to make it all better. So don't worry about the mistakes -- we'll um... investigate them -- just know that we're here to save you. [And don't forget it when the next election comes around, ya hear?]" Did you catch the Daily Show[^] last night? It will give you a great idea of how I and many people feel about this whole thing. Alvaro
Explain to the mothers & fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" -- Sean Hannity, 1999.
Alvaro Mendez wrote: Did you catch the Daily Show[^] last night? It will give you a great idea of how I and many people feel about this whole thing. Sure didn't. if I had to watch a comedy show to get my news, I would give up. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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If all democrats logic follow your line of think you are correct, they do not stand a chance...again. BTW CNN poll shows the blame goes mostly to the local goverments and not the feds. Keep it up!
kgaddy wrote: CNN poll the totally unscientific one on their front page? the one that's wide open to freeping ? try an actual poll, done by pollsters: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/08/opinion/polls/main824591.shtml[^] Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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kgaddy wrote: CNN poll the totally unscientific one on their front page? the one that's wide open to freeping ? try an actual poll, done by pollsters: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/08/opinion/polls/main824591.shtml[^] Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
Chris Losinger wrote: the totally unscientific one on their front page? the one that's wide open to freeping ? No, CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH? Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 Done the same way as your CBS poll. Here is another for ya. http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1
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Chris Losinger wrote: the totally unscientific one on their front page? the one that's wide open to freeping ? No, CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH? Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 Done the same way as your CBS poll. Here is another for ya. http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1
kgaddy wrote: CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH? that's not the same as "the blame goes mostly to the local goverments and not the feds", which is what you actually wrote, above. because if you're talking about this[^], we get:
Respondents also disagreed widely on who is to blame for the problems in the city following the hurricane -- 13 percent said Bush, 18 percent said federal agencies, 25 percent blamed state or local officials and 38 percent said no one is to blame. And 63 percent said they do not believe anyone at federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired as a result.
hmm. let's think about this. presumably Bush is part of the Federal govt, (and maybe we can assume people would've voted for Federal instead of Bush if Bush wasn't an option) so, 13% + 18% = 31%. compare that to 25% for state or local. or, if you don't like that math, try this: 31% blame Bush OR Federal agencies. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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kgaddy wrote: CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH? that's not the same as "the blame goes mostly to the local goverments and not the feds", which is what you actually wrote, above. because if you're talking about this[^], we get:
Respondents also disagreed widely on who is to blame for the problems in the city following the hurricane -- 13 percent said Bush, 18 percent said federal agencies, 25 percent blamed state or local officials and 38 percent said no one is to blame. And 63 percent said they do not believe anyone at federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired as a result.
hmm. let's think about this. presumably Bush is part of the Federal govt, (and maybe we can assume people would've voted for Federal instead of Bush if Bush wasn't an option) so, 13% + 18% = 31%. compare that to 25% for state or local. or, if you don't like that math, try this: 31% blame Bush OR Federal agencies. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker