If Katrina happened in Europe...
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We need a large port at the mouth of the Mississippi though. And a large port means a large city. We could dredge the Mississippi to put the port further inland, but keeping the Mississippi dredged would probably be more expensive than maintaining a flood control system further downstream. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: We need a large port at the mouth of the Mississippi though. And a large port means a large city. This is not clear. From a Washington Post article: Certainly, as long as the Mississippi River stays within its manmade banks, there will be a need for the almost 200 miles of ports near its mouth. But ports no longer require legions of workers. In the 21st century, a thriving port is not the same thing as a thriving city, as demonstrated from Oakland to Norfolk. [and later] Also distinct from the city are the region's ports, lining 172 miles of both banks of the Mississippi, as well as points on the Gulf. For example, the largest in the Western Hemisphere is the 54-mile stretch of the Port of South Louisiana. It is centered on La Place, 20 miles upriver from New Orleans. It moved 199 million tons of cargo in 2003, including the vast bulk of the river's grain. That is more than twice as much as the Port of New Orleans, according to the American Association of Port Authorities. The Port of Baton Rouge, almost as big as the Port of New Orleans, was not damaged. Also, downstream, there is the LOOP -- the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port out in the Gulf that handles supertankers requiring water depths of 85 feet. These ports are just a few of the biggest. Illustrating how different the Port of New Orleans is from the city, its landline phones were back in business a week ago, says Gary LaGrange, the port's president and CEO. "The river is working beautifully," he reports, and "the terminal's not that bad." Throughout the world, you see an increasing distinction between "port" and "city." As long as a port needed stevedores and recreational areas for sailors, cities like New Orleans -- or Baltimore or Rotterdam -- thrived. Today, however, the measure of a port is how quickly it can load or unload a ship and return it to sea. That process is measured in hours. It is the product of extremely sophisticated automation, which requires some very skilled people but does not create remotely enough jobs to support a city of half a million or so. The dazzling Offshore Oil Port, for example, employs only about 100 people. Even the specialized Port of New Orleans, which handles things like coffee, steel and cruise boats, only needs 2,500 people on an average day, LaGrange says. The Warehouse District was being turned into trendy condos. Compare that to the tourism industry, which employs about 25,000 people in the arts, entertainment, recreation, accommodation and fo
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We have deaths here too with elderly or sick people not being able to withstand some of the extreme temperatures we've been having the past few years - how should we have helped them? They don't want to be removed from their homes, they value their independance and dignity. Should we forcibly remove them and stack them in giant chillers? The information to be careful is out there so the people concerned, their families and their carers can do all they can to prevent or ease any suffering. Last year I found the heat unbearable, I was taking cool showers two or three times a day for some of it. What on earth do you propose the government does? Provides free showers for old people? How is this in any way linked to Hurricane Katrina?
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
Heat waves happen in many countries. What was measured in France in 2003 was 15.000 - 50.000 more deaths then usual statistics. Majority of deaths were in Paris and Chantal de Singly, director of the Saint-Antoine hospital in Paris, put it nicely in Le Monde - the heat wave revealed two classes of French citizens: "the France of the air conditioned and the France of the overheated." In America more three thirds of poorest households have air conditioning system. French goverment, following environmentalist and social agenda (price protection for government industries) has allowed costs of energy to consumer to be 25% higher then that of the United States. Mounting air conditioner to your flat in Paris is a complex buerocratic procedure, requiring urban planners, architects and goverment buerocracts to permit it - or else you get penalized. Due to environmentalist mentality air conditioners in France are not part of basic needs (as a VAT category). Physicians and healthcare professionals in France work only 35 hours per week. So the trouble, perhaps, is not what the goverment should've done but what it did. Tomaž
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Tomaž Štih wrote: In 2003 - 15.000 to 50.000 elderly died in France due to heat wave. Actually, only just above 14,000 in France. 35,000 in all of Europe. http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update29_data.htm[^] The difference between Europe and the USA is primarily the USA looses over 1000 people annually to heat, Europe usually doesn't see more than dozens to hundreds. Europe caught up in one year. Death due to heat is not big news in the southwest, you'll find it after page 10 in the local information pages, it's just an every week occurance in the southwest, a few here, a few there, but every year. You can make this more than you want, trust me, if it were worse, those folks in that link would have shown it as worse, because they want it to be worse. But 2003 was just Europe unprepared for the heat, so they caught up with us, we'll still loose another 1000-2000 next summer, and the next, and the next. The USA is simply accustomed to death due to heat, it's no big deal. Here's 2001[^], it is how the death rate in the USA looks annually, we loose people every week during the summer. It is just not newsworthy. The annual rate of deaths across the entire USA for elderly is 5 per million over age 85 and 3.5 per million of those 75-84 and on down the sclae. It's just numbers in the CDC, not newsworthy. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) -- modified at 11:31 Saturday 17th September, 2005
Let's restate some facts. 1. The number of heat related deaths in France was anomaly from normal yearly statistics (which includes stats about how many people commonly die of heat), so it is not uncommon that people die of heat, but the event in 2003 was very uncommon, 2. Comparing France and New Mexico or France and Texas is questionable because the environment is not the same. And difficult because unlike some god forsake southern American federal states, France is not a transparent country and does not publish its statistics on the internet - if it would you could start by comparing environments by temperature and then by heat related deaths. I'm pretty sure America would come first, simply, because its households are better equipped for fighting heat. Comparision of France with New Mexico reminds me of comparision of infant mortality rates by WHO. The latter was discredited because it did not consider birth rate - having exactly the same number of competent medical personnel and exactly the same quality of hospitals - American medical personnel would still be under almost twice the much pressure, because they have higher birth rate. It is similar with comparision of hot environments of southern United States and France. Tomaž
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What should France have done? Put them in a freezer?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenAllow them easy access to air conditioners by removing ideological barriers that are in fact protectionism. Tomaž
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Heat waves happen in many countries. What was measured in France in 2003 was 15.000 - 50.000 more deaths then usual statistics. Majority of deaths were in Paris and Chantal de Singly, director of the Saint-Antoine hospital in Paris, put it nicely in Le Monde - the heat wave revealed two classes of French citizens: "the France of the air conditioned and the France of the overheated." In America more three thirds of poorest households have air conditioning system. French goverment, following environmentalist and social agenda (price protection for government industries) has allowed costs of energy to consumer to be 25% higher then that of the United States. Mounting air conditioner to your flat in Paris is a complex buerocratic procedure, requiring urban planners, architects and goverment buerocracts to permit it - or else you get penalized. Due to environmentalist mentality air conditioners in France are not part of basic needs (as a VAT category). Physicians and healthcare professionals in France work only 35 hours per week. So the trouble, perhaps, is not what the goverment should've done but what it did. Tomaž
So you think the French government should have bought air conditioning units for everybody who couldn't afford one on their own? Tomaž Štih wrote: Due to environmentalist mentality air conditioners in France are not part of basic needs It's more down to the climate. You don't build earthquake-proof buildings as standard in the middle of a continental plate and you don't build air conditioning in as standard in houses in a cold country. Temperatures in Paris in 2003 were the highest since record-keeping began in 1873, and they stayed like it for two weeks. In Britain, we had the highest temperatures since 1833. And don't forget Tomaž, some of the worst heat waves of the twentieth century occurred in the US, not in Europe. Do you think it could it have something to do with the climate, and not the politicians? I know politicians produce a lot of hot air, but that much of it? You think someone should have seen this coming? Every time someone steps up to claim the world is getting hotter they get shot down by, amongst other people, the unfallable US government. We are fighting an uphill battle to even have the problem recognised by the people who could actualy make a difference. Having said that, any environmentalist socialist illegal non-American anti-Tomaž views are correct in this case - AC is a horrible waste of energy 99% of the time you see it being used in this country. France is at most what 100 miles away from England? The climate is only slighlty warmer. Tomaž Štih wrote: Physicians and healthcare professionals in France work only 35 hours per week. My sister dated a French doctor for a while. He signed a piece of paper to say he was willing to work more than 35 hours, but only on his choice (he could not be forced to do so). He said that was quite a standard practise, yet he still worked over 60 hours in a quiet week. I'm pretty sure we have the same thing in the UK too. Tomaž Štih wrote: So the trouble, perhaps, is not what the goverment should've done but what it did. Because they didn't do what you want, that makes it something they should have done. They are the same thing. Tomaž Štih wrote: What was measured in France in 2003 was then usual statistics 14,802 is not 15.000 - 50.000 more deaths. The actual toll would be at most 10% more than reported.
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In 2003 - 15.000 to 50.000 elderly died in France due to heat wave. No communication was broken, no road was blocked, no city was evacuated and France has one of the largest goverment in the world. Tomaž
Tomaž Štih wrote: 15.000 to 50.000 15,000 (15k) or 15.000 (fiveteen guys)?
-prakash
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The actual problem is that it took several days to measure and get aware of the problem. It has nothing to see with anybody willingness to solve the problem or not. Helicopters, army men, communications and roads were of no use. Asking people to watch over their elderly people was actually the only thing that can and is done. Anyway, I think that the US did better that any country in the world could have except may be for foreseing and preparing for such an event. I heard that new Orlean plan in case of evacuation was completely rubish. Also rebuilding the city at the same place (i.e. still under sea level) is not a smart idea to me.
François Gasnier wrote: The actual problem is that it took several days to measure and get aware of the problem utterly untrue. everybody except the people in charge of the federal response knew what would happen if a large hurricane hit NO. that's why they opened the Superdome. that's why they had mandatory evacuations. that's why the national guard was ready to go days before the hurricane even hit. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker -- modified at 18:54 Sunday 18th September, 2005
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François Gasnier wrote: The actual problem is that it took several days to measure and get aware of the problem utterly untrue. everybody except the people in charge of the federal response knew what would happen if a large hurricane hit NO. that's why they opened the Superdome. that's why they had mandatory evacuations. that's why the national guard was ready to go days before the hurricane even hit. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker -- modified at 18:54 Sunday 18th September, 2005
pssst, Francois was talking about the European heatwave, not Katrina... :) regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and WebTwoZero. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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In 2003 - 15.000 to 50.000 elderly died in France due to heat wave. No communication was broken, no road was blocked, no city was evacuated and France has one of the largest goverment in the world. Tomaž
Most of the victims from the heat wave in France were located in _private_old people's homes. Another success of the capitalist search for greed.
fat_boy wrote: I've got plenty of opinions, if you don't like them I've got plenty more
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In 2003 - 15.000 to 50.000 elderly died in France due to heat wave. No communication was broken, no road was blocked, no city was evacuated and France has one of the largest goverment in the world. Tomaž