Islamists demand Bangladeshi women wear veil
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
NIsh,i have seen women in India who wear saris,i ve seen thousands of people in life who wear and i believe there forced to wear clothes ,otherwise they wanted to be naked all the time. could you explain how why those women wear sarees and why ppl wear clothes?are they forced to wear anything?
Hello Adnan, There's a difference between wearing clothes and putting a shawl around your face. I am not saying it's a bad thing if the person enjoys doing it. But there are women who do not want to wear the facial shawl. Which is why this specific Bangladeshi group says it'll kill such women. That, is simply not right. No woman should be told that she would die if she didn't wear the facial shawl. Nish p.s. Your name reminds me of that singer with the same first name, Adnan Sami, don't know if he's Indian or Pakistani :-)
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Hello Adnan, There's a difference between wearing clothes and putting a shawl around your face. I am not saying it's a bad thing if the person enjoys doing it. But there are women who do not want to wear the facial shawl. Which is why this specific Bangladeshi group says it'll kill such women. That, is simply not right. No woman should be told that she would die if she didn't wear the facial shawl.
Nish,you didn`t get my point Bro!you can`t generalise on basis of one example?is it sane?offcourse not.. let me repeat,Hijab don`t cover Face Covering at all..so kindly dont give example of covering face,yet my personal opinion is that covering of Face makes them secure more than not being covered...its the fact that a man is mostly attracted due to face,figure comes later and whole concept of Hijab is to wear lose clothes so that a woman`s figure don`t get exposed..what`s wrong in it?i believe sub continent countries dont like their mothers and sisters to wear skirts,i havnt not been personally in most part of India but through Movies and a trip to kanpur(my dad`s birth place), i got the idea that Indian woman(A true Indian Woman) NEVER likes to unviel their bodies..A woman is a respectable icon..much respectable than a man itself...do you ever wonder why a pearl is covered in a shell?why jewllers put gold and dimonds in case with more care...Woman is not lesser than a pearl and Dimond in our society(eastern),A mother is like Bhagwan(for Hindus) and a Way to go paradise(for Muslims),when such thinking is in mind...even i am not a muslim but believe in above mentioned faith..i woudnt like to see her in sucha way which makes her offended by others(Staring by others)..i would prefer to give as much as protection to my pearl/dimond.. same concept Islam had brought..same concept brought by Hinduism thousands of years back,same thing brought by Christianity and Judaism.. You would be surprised that Hindu books discusses about vieling..which is not followed by hindu women..but its mentioned in books giving example of B`desi groups..so extreemiss are everywhere,so are in Hindustian and Hindu religion, like this guy[^] from RSS ,an Indian extreemist group who destructed Babri Mosque, preachin Hindu women to produce as much baby
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Nishant,my family women dont wear scarf cos they didn`t opt to
That is nice :-) I am glad they could do as they wanted to. If they were in Bangladesh, they'd have been worried now I guess.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
you live in Toronto,i wonder how many covered headed women have u seen over there
Quite a few. Even school going girls. Though they aren't very careful with it. I've seen girls whose head cloth keeps falling off ands they don't care a lot.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
That is nice I am glad they could do as they wanted to. If they were in Bangladesh, they'd have been worried now I guess.
you`re wrong here again Nishant! wearing scarf,jeans is personal things,Islam just asks women to cover herself properly and don`t expose the body..i think its not unusual and against Human nature at all. school girls age covers from 4-15 years,if a girl of 8th or 10th grade wears scarf,its not alien anyways..living in a society like US where crime rate of crime is high,rate of raping is high, read this[^] FBI report , this sexualy assault stats Report [^] and this[^] research report for high abuse against women.. its not bad if parents of those girls asks them to wear scarf..but again ..its not forced to them...yes i dont deny NOT all force them,few parents really force them ..but to be honest Nishant,you have met a single muslim family,i have met many,in virual world and real life,my own relatives live in US ,Canda and Uk..and most of girls and women wear scarf with their own will cos they feel more secure..for sake of your info,one of the Hindu friend of my friend`s wife wears scarf like our muslims women and she feels much better in it. Vieling is not bad Nish, and its not a Post islamic practise,its has been promoted in all major religions,from bible to hinduism and all these religions are older than Islam itself,Chiristians sketch picture of Mary who has covered herself like a Islamic dress,nuns follow Marry..but not rest,a hollw and lame reason given by chiristians that they Opt it cos they wana be religious..they themselves admit that Chirtianity lies among churches and in hearts of nuns and priests..cos of this..chiristianity is not charmful for them.. guess the incest rate in US itself..why the western society taking last breath,they had gone to extreem of lust,have had sex with animals..no moral value
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
A woman who cover herself would be more secure,will be lesser chance to get harrased then a woman who`s exposing herbody..fair enough..it happens and its the fact
That indicates that there is a problem with men, right? So covering women is just healing the symptoms, instead of healing the disease. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That indicates that there is a problem with men, right?
i am 200% agree with ya dude..that`s man problem but a natural one...
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
So covering women is just healing the symptoms, instead of healing the disease.
what cure has been brought by West or Non muslims yet in whole civilization, high rape rate in a society,INcest, single mothers..why moral values gettin worst day by day?West should start seriously thinking..
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
So covering women is just healing the symptoms, instead of healing the disease.
what`s the concept of *Lockers* anyway?why not govt heal by killing theives and robbers rather we go to lockers and put our PRECIOUS STUFF and money in it? MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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You one of ppl who promote HATERD!!!!!! HATERD!!!!! Why you not link to thing with flowers and sunshine and puppydogs and the smell of fresh washed turbans? - F
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kgaddy wrote:
That makes me the hater??
NO..exposing violence is not bad,it should be exposed,but you don`t expose Violence you expose,you just come to bash Islam by giving a link or other,by giving baseless statments which were not even accepted by most of other religion ppl,seldom muslim like me or A.A or farhan(just 3) would bother to communicate with you...most of the time non-muslims raped you..so you just dont use brain while showing ur haterd against Islam..thtswhy u r an arsehole regardin who else consider you an arsehole..since u dnt have brain like avg american..you coudn`t figure out the sarcasm..many dont response you..maybe cos they realize earler than me that you suffer mouth diarrhea,thats why you stink much. MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
Congratulations! Not only have you demostrated your intolerance and prejudice but have descended into cursing for now obvious reason. You are one tolerant muslim! Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke -- modified at 15:28 Saturday 10th December, 2005
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All I did was link an article, where people hate and tries to force them to do thinks they dont want. That makes me the hater?? nice
kgaddy wrote:
That makes me the hater??
NO..exposing violence is not bad,it should be exposed,but you don`t expose Violence you expose,you just come to bash Islam by giving a link or other,by giving baseless statments which were not even accepted by most of other religion ppl,seldom muslim like me or A.A or farhan(just 3) would bother to communicate with you...most of the time non-muslims raped you..so you just dont use brain while showing ur haterd against Islam..thtswhy u r an arsehole regardin who else consider you an arsehole..since u dnt have brain like avg american..you coudn`t figure out the sarcasm..many dont response you..maybe cos they realize earler than me that you suffer mouth diarrhea,thats why you stink much. MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That indicates that there is a problem with men, right?
i am 200% agree with ya dude..that`s man problem but a natural one...
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
So covering women is just healing the symptoms, instead of healing the disease.
what cure has been brought by West or Non muslims yet in whole civilization, high rape rate in a society,INcest, single mothers..why moral values gettin worst day by day?West should start seriously thinking..
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
So covering women is just healing the symptoms, instead of healing the disease.
what`s the concept of *Lockers* anyway?why not govt heal by killing theives and robbers rather we go to lockers and put our PRECIOUS STUFF and money in it? MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
i am 200% agree with ya dude..that`s man problem but a natural one...
It is not a natural problem. It may have been a million years ago when the human species were still in the ape stage.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
what cure has been brought by West or Non muslims yet in whole civilization, high rape rate in a society
How do you define rape? Does having sex with a man because of fear of retribution constitute rape? If so, I'm sure the rape rates of muslim and non-muslim are more or less equal.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
INcest
I'm no expert in this area, so you may dismiss me as a blubbering fool. However, I have read reports that the increased number of incest incidents aren't due to a real increase, but that we've become better in detecting and reporting them. With we I'm referring to Swedes. I have no idea about the rest of the non-muslim world. I try not to generalize too much. At any rate, since incests seem to have been a hidden well in the past, it would seem that more things than we know are going on. Are you so sure that muslims commit less incest crimes than non-muslims (per capita)? Think about that one. Also, think about the possible repercussions a muslim child, living in a rather strict society, would have to endure, if he or she would claim that he or she had been molested by a parent.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
single mothers
Ah yes. When men behave like assholes, women tend to leave them. Is that a bad thing?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
what`s the concept of *Lockers* anyway?why not govt heal by killing theives and robbers rather we go to lockers and put our PRECIOUS STUFF and money in it?
Because governments that actually care about its population, doesn't kill their citizens? -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
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You one of ppl who promote HATERD!!!!!! HATERD!!!!! Why you not link to thing with flowers and sunshine and puppydogs and the smell of fresh washed turbans? - F
Fisticuffs wrote:
You one of ppl who promote HATERD!!!!!! HATERD!!!!! Why you not link to thing with flowers and sunshine and puppydogs and the smell of fresh washed turbans?
you are hungry..why dont u run towards your two mommas(Kgaddy or Stan),they would feed ya,lifts anyone shirt and Suck them..u would be calm down :laugh: MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Congratulations! Not only have you demostrated your intolerance and prejudice but have descended into cursing for now obvious reason. You are one tolerant muslim! Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke -- modified at 15:28 Saturday 10th December, 2005
if silence is name of tolerence in your sight then every internet user who dont visit CP is Tolerant which is unfair by every mean A/c to this yes i am intolerant in your sight :>,what kinda thing do you expect from a *Tolerent* ,some people just dont listen..he or liekwise are one of them. yes i Respond him at first place..yes thats the mistake of mine..if tats what you refer ,yes i am intolerent otherwise i am polite with him by refuting his baseless statments MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan -- modified at 15:40 Saturday 10th December, 2005
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
i am 200% agree with ya dude..that`s man problem but a natural one...
It is not a natural problem. It may have been a million years ago when the human species were still in the ape stage.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
what cure has been brought by West or Non muslims yet in whole civilization, high rape rate in a society
How do you define rape? Does having sex with a man because of fear of retribution constitute rape? If so, I'm sure the rape rates of muslim and non-muslim are more or less equal.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
INcest
I'm no expert in this area, so you may dismiss me as a blubbering fool. However, I have read reports that the increased number of incest incidents aren't due to a real increase, but that we've become better in detecting and reporting them. With we I'm referring to Swedes. I have no idea about the rest of the non-muslim world. I try not to generalize too much. At any rate, since incests seem to have been a hidden well in the past, it would seem that more things than we know are going on. Are you so sure that muslims commit less incest crimes than non-muslims (per capita)? Think about that one. Also, think about the possible repercussions a muslim child, living in a rather strict society, would have to endure, if he or she would claim that he or she had been molested by a parent.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
single mothers
Ah yes. When men behave like assholes, women tend to leave them. Is that a bad thing?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
what`s the concept of *Lockers* anyway?why not govt heal by killing theives and robbers rather we go to lockers and put our PRECIOUS STUFF and money in it?
Because governments that actually care about its population, doesn't kill their citizens? -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It is not a natural problem. It may have been a million years ago when the human species were still in the ape stage.
its not a natural problem then what is it?.....Apes? Evolution beliver?
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
How do you define rape? Does having sex with a man because of fear of retribution constitute rape? If so, I'm sure the rape rates of muslim and non-muslim are more or less equal
I am intrested to know what`s your defnition of Rape?or what interpetition do you want to give to *Rape*
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I'm no expert in this area
neither I`m..incest in my sight its most immoral activity ...but one should have idea why such thing happens,...in a society where there is no moral values and so called Human Rights Promoter,rate of Incest stuff is high than a country where laws or religion is followed for living. I dont disagree that there would be not a single instance of Incest rate,cos i myself knew a case where boy used to have sex with his sister and made her pregnant.. and since i know the whole case,i could descrive you reason,they belonged ti elite class where most of things were not objectionable,since most of the time they used to spend at home,they used to watch satellite programs which includes adult channels as well,since they were child(keep in mind ,here no conceptof parental guidance,infact many asian countries) and parents didnt aware of religious teachings to kids,the boy started having sex with his sister..since he wasnt aware hes comitting a sin,the parents came to know when gal got pregannt,guy ran out fo home and never came back,when parents were asked for reason then things came out which i told bove..so things came out that they followed whats shown in movies(SEX stuff..not INCEST itself),they were not watching any religious movie that they strted following it.So such things happen here as well but it happens if religon is not followed ,whether its chiristianity,islam or hinduism,A society who dont consider unvieling and illegal sex as bad act..u cold expect anything,whoever follow such society or laws would suffer same shit. i havne`t done research but if u have,u could provide stats about incest rate in a western society and in eastern(muslim countries+subcontinent etc)who keep an eye on family members.
Jörgen Sigv
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Fisticuffs wrote:
You one of ppl who promote HATERD!!!!!! HATERD!!!!! Why you not link to thing with flowers and sunshine and puppydogs and the smell of fresh washed turbans?
you are hungry..why dont u run towards your two mommas(Kgaddy or Stan),they would feed ya,lifts anyone shirt and Suck them..u would be calm down :laugh: MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It is not a natural problem. It may have been a million years ago when the human species were still in the ape stage.
its not a natural problem then what is it?.....Apes? Evolution beliver?
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
How do you define rape? Does having sex with a man because of fear of retribution constitute rape? If so, I'm sure the rape rates of muslim and non-muslim are more or less equal
I am intrested to know what`s your defnition of Rape?or what interpetition do you want to give to *Rape*
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I'm no expert in this area
neither I`m..incest in my sight its most immoral activity ...but one should have idea why such thing happens,...in a society where there is no moral values and so called Human Rights Promoter,rate of Incest stuff is high than a country where laws or religion is followed for living. I dont disagree that there would be not a single instance of Incest rate,cos i myself knew a case where boy used to have sex with his sister and made her pregnant.. and since i know the whole case,i could descrive you reason,they belonged ti elite class where most of things were not objectionable,since most of the time they used to spend at home,they used to watch satellite programs which includes adult channels as well,since they were child(keep in mind ,here no conceptof parental guidance,infact many asian countries) and parents didnt aware of religious teachings to kids,the boy started having sex with his sister..since he wasnt aware hes comitting a sin,the parents came to know when gal got pregannt,guy ran out fo home and never came back,when parents were asked for reason then things came out which i told bove..so things came out that they followed whats shown in movies(SEX stuff..not INCEST itself),they were not watching any religious movie that they strted following it.So such things happen here as well but it happens if religon is not followed ,whether its chiristianity,islam or hinduism,A society who dont consider unvieling and illegal sex as bad act..u cold expect anything,whoever follow such society or laws would suffer same shit. i havne`t done research but if u have,u could provide stats about incest rate in a western society and in eastern(muslim countries+subcontinent etc)who keep an eye on family members.
Jörgen Sigv
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
its not a natural problem then what is it?
Humans are sentient beings, and as such, acting against someone's will is not natural. There is no law of nature that forces men to rape women. Rape is an act set in motion by the mind.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
I am intrested to know what`s your defnition of Rape?or what interpetition do you want to give to *Rape*
The dictionary says: "the crime of forcing a woman to submit to sexual intercourse against her will". I would like to modify it to read "the crime of forcing a human to submit to sexual intercourse against his or her will". Then it fits my interpretation of rape. Yes, even a married woman can be raped by her husband.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
neither I`m..incest in my sight its most immoral activity
I doubt it's morally "ok" anywhere.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
in a society where there is no moral values and so called Human Rights Promoter,rate of Incest stuff is high than a country where laws or religion is followed for living.
Would you say that true believing catholics are morally strong? If so, then why is it that there have been so many cases of pedophilia with catholic priests? I don't have any proof of this, but I believe this has been going on since ages back. It's only now that it has surfaced. My gut feeling is that, the more religious a society is, the easier it is to stay away from the public eye. Especially if there are religious texts saying that "one is condemned" or whatever, even if it was against one's own will. Also, the tighter the religious grip around the population is, the easier it is to create fanatics. Fanatics that will kill in the name of <deity> Look for example at Europe up until the late medieval times. Women were burned at the stake, just because some suspected they were witches. And look at the extremist muslims today. Men and women blow themselves up! For a "higher purpose"!
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
a child won`t know name of his dad cos he wasn`t told by his mom and wait a minute
One big reason why there are single moms, is because the men left them. They don't want to take care of their child. Another fine example of single moms, is when the husband abused them. Woman and children. Not all single moms are egoistic bastar
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
have u been really going thru,whats happening in India??think again
I most definitely have. The few odd occurrences of caste and religion based evil do not negate the improvements that have been happening elsewhere.
i posted one link on other post,beside tht i made a post to Vikram regarding same issue in HONOUR KILLING section MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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care to refuse? anyone? MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
Pardon? Refuse What? If a group of morons like thise threatened the life of my wife, daughter, sister, or mother you'd be damn sure that I would be demanding that my goverment take immediate action. If they didn't then you can be damn sure that I'd find some like minded friends to make sure we could protect our family and friends. BTW... Are you advocating violence against women who refuse the demands of these weak-minded men? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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ADNANANA SIDDDIKY REPORT CARD Engrish 100: F Anatomy 101: F USA bashing 101: B- Advanced Whining 300: A Internet Retard 101: A+++ - F
:laugh: i don`t need to bash US or Americans,they bash themselves,i just laugh at them :laugh: MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
and to be honest, it was a scary sight!
Frankly this is a problem you have to deal with. It kind of reminds me of a local talk show host who goes around saying how scared he is when he passes a mosque after Friday prayer and sees all those Muslim looking people hanging around. Its a problem he has to deal with.
Quran IslamWeb (IE only) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
:laugh: `gree wid yew bro!! its like seeing lots of hindus(men/women) doing ashnan in ganga/jamna ..very weird for me..but its good for them *shrug* MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Pardon? Refuse What? If a group of morons like thise threatened the life of my wife, daughter, sister, or mother you'd be damn sure that I would be demanding that my goverment take immediate action. If they didn't then you can be damn sure that I'd find some like minded friends to make sure we could protect our family and friends. BTW... Are you advocating violence against women who refuse the demands of these weak-minded men? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
If a group of morons like thise threatened the life of my wife, daughter, sister, or mother you'd be damn sure that I would be demanding that my goverment take immediate action. If they didn't then you can be damn sure that I'd find some like minded friends to make sure we could protect our family and friends
where do you live?
Chris Austin wrote:
BTW... Are you advocating violence against women who refuse the demands of these weak-minded men?
NO, i am advocating that Hijab(Veil) is not a bad thing anyway,second its not forced on govt level ,i am citizen of Pakistan and my sister and mom dont wear scarf but my fiance does cos she likes it,none of her other sister wear,so see,its a free will like eiter wear Jeans or something else, and last but nto least, Veil is not Islamic innovation,before islamic it was mentioned in Hindu religion which is one of oldest one and in chiristianity too and when chirsitians who i thnk respect mARY and NUN then why cant we give respect to all Muslim women who have same status as NUM(NO Discriminition) taking a fanatic group as example and bashing a RELIGION is pretty pathetic and lame for me and i consider it childish ti participate with such so called *MATURE* in this way i have legitimate reason to curse Christian Missionaries which is even official who force ppl to convert Chiristianity by giving them Money andother stuff.. MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
A banned Islamist militant group blamed for a series of bombings in Bangladesh has threatened to kill women, including non-Muslims, if they do not wear the veil, a statement said
Wearing a headscarf is a personal thing that has no impact on society. A person who acts against a supposed command of God should anger God alone and not other human beings. Fellow human beings (i.e. society) can only interfere where the individual's actions harm others. So what right does another human being have to act as God's proxy and mete out punishment ? That, in the context of the same religious beliefs, is the highest form of blasphemy.
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On the other hand being gay there is punishable by death. :(( Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
That is nice I am glad they could do as they wanted to. If they were in Bangladesh, they'd have been worried now I guess.
you`re wrong here again Nishant! wearing scarf,jeans is personal things,Islam just asks women to cover herself properly and don`t expose the body..i think its not unusual and against Human nature at all. school girls age covers from 4-15 years,if a girl of 8th or 10th grade wears scarf,its not alien anyways..living in a society like US where crime rate of crime is high,rate of raping is high, read this[^] FBI report , this sexualy assault stats Report [^] and this[^] research report for high abuse against women.. its not bad if parents of those girls asks them to wear scarf..but again ..its not forced to them...yes i dont deny NOT all force them,few parents really force them ..but to be honest Nishant,you have met a single muslim family,i have met many,in virual world and real life,my own relatives live in US ,Canda and Uk..and most of girls and women wear scarf with their own will cos they feel more secure..for sake of your info,one of the Hindu friend of my friend`s wife wears scarf like our muslims women and she feels much better in it. Vieling is not bad Nish, and its not a Post islamic practise,its has been promoted in all major religions,from bible to hinduism and all these religions are older than Islam itself,Chiristians sketch picture of Mary who has covered herself like a Islamic dress,nuns follow Marry..but not rest,a hollw and lame reason given by chiristians that they Opt it cos they wana be religious..they themselves admit that Chirtianity lies among churches and in hearts of nuns and priests..cos of this..chiristianity is not charmful for them.. guess the incest rate in US itself..why the western society taking last breath,they had gone to extreem of lust,have had sex with animals..no moral value
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Chiristians sketch picture of Mary who has covered herself like a Islamic dress,nuns follow Marry..
The western world was not defined by christians, but by Pagan greeks, who we can also thank for our rationalism and democracy. Spartan girls had an upbringing unparalleled anywhere else in Greece. For starters, they were fed the same rations as boys and allowed to drink wine. The state taught them how to sing and dance, wrestle, throw the javelin and discus. And they were encouraged to be every bit as competitive as the boys. Girls and boys would exercise naked, but there was nothing immodest about it. Nudity was the norm because it was thought to banish prudery and encourage fitness. It paid off. Physically, all young Spartans were outstanding. In the comedy Lysistrata by the Athenian playwright Aristophanes, a group of Athenian women crowd round a Spartan woman called Lampito. 'What a gorgeous creature,' they say. 'What healthy skin, what firmness of physique.' And one of them adds, 'I've never seen a pair of breasts like that.' To which Lampito proudly responds, 'I go to the gym. I make my buttocks hard.' Spartan 'thigh-flashers' The simple visibility of Spartan women made them objects of fear and fascination to non-Spartan men. When you see – in the Sparta museum today – the lead votive offerings depicting dancers, you can understand why Spartan women were subject to such lurid speculation among Athenian men. One of the most important virtues for Athenian women was soprhosyne – 'wise restraint'. However, in these uninhibited dancers, even after thousands of years, you can sense the energy and almost smell the sweat. Spartan dances were famous for their vitality. In one particularly athletic version, women had to jump up and drum their buttocks with their heels as many times as possible. It was incredibly difficult, but most importantly for the ancients, it revealed a large amount of naked thigh. This is probably where Spartan girls earned their nickname: 'thigh-flashers.' As part of their state education, the thigh-flashers would go down to the banks of the Eurotas river for what one poet described as the 'nichta di ambrosias' – the ambrosial nights. The poet goes on to evoke scenes of ritual ecstatic dances and choral contests – the girls singing to each other of limb-loosening desire, tossing their long hair, being ridden like horses and exhausted by love. It's no surprise that Sparta was one of the few