In praise of nuance
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So, Das Kapital and Maoism are right-wing ideologies?
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
I was thinking the same. Obviously ahz wasn't thinking at all. :~
-- Broadcast simultaneously one year in the future
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dennisd45 wrote:
That’s why ideology, be it neoconservatism, Maoism, fundamentalist Christianity or Taliban-style Islam, is such a useful thing.
I notice that you only use right-wing ideologies here and avoid mentioning any of the left-wing ideologies. Hmm, could that be because there's a bit of biased, self-righteous thinking going on here?
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahz wrote:
Hmm, could that be because there's a bit of biased, self-righteous thinking going on here?
He has no ideology. He doesn't need no stinking ideology!
Thank God for disproportional force.
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When did Maoism become "right wing"?
16 minutes ago, apparently. :~ If Maoism is right wing, I'm so far to the right that light is distorted.
-- Torn from tomorrow's headlines
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Stan Shannon wrote:
So you've developed the non-ideology ideology? I'll have to give it to you - that is certainly f****ing nuanced. Good work.
:zzz:
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
Sleep away - and dream your nuanced non-ideology dreams!
Thank God for disproportional force.
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So, Das Kapital and Maoism are right-wing ideologies?
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
So, Das Kapital and Maoism are right-wing ideologies?
hmm, my bad. too quick on the draw. I apologize.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Sleep away - and dream your nuanced non-ideology dreams!
Thank God for disproportional force.
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I was thinking the same. Obviously ahz wasn't thinking at all. :~
-- Broadcast simultaneously one year in the future
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Obviously ahz wasn't thinking at all.
quite so. lol. :-O
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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When did Maoism become "right wing"?
Rob Graham wrote:
When did Maoism become "right wing"?
I was being a bit trigger happy. my bad.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
there is no nuance twixt right and wrong, good and evil.
Do you have children? Rick (8 years old) catches his brother Paul (6 years old) playing with one of Rick's toys. Rick proceeds to abruptly take the toy away from Paul while telling him, "That's mine". Paul gets mad and kicks Rick in the leg. Rick, who can't believe his little brother would dare do that, grabs Paul by the neck, punches him, and pushes him to the floor. Paul starts crying. Mike (that's you) walks into the room. Who's right and who's wrong? Who's good and who's evil? Alvaro
Josh: So you have been married twice? You must have been young the first time around. Christian: Yeah, we were young and stupid. I was young, and she was...
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's right and who's wrong? Who's good and who's evil?
both.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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sometimes the black-and-white-seers are closer to the right ting. But even then, I still prefer the colors.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistNuance is fine for humor, entertainment and other such inconsequential aspects of life, but if you're making a significant moral decision, say one involving life or death for another, you really aught to seek solider ground than a "subtle difference in opinion, meaning or attitude".[^] In this regard I disagree with both the author and the poster - most of the really consequential problems in this world are not in the least "nuanced". They may be confusing, complex, or even seemingly intractable, but they almost never involve a subtle difference in opinion or meaning, but rather a fundamental one. The left's use of nuance in this respect, serves more to obfuscate reality or to avoid recognition of a troubling fundamental disagreement than it does to help address the problems.
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ahz wrote:
Hmm, could that be because there's a bit of biased, self-righteous thinking going on here?
He has no ideology. He doesn't need no stinking ideology!
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's right and who's wrong? Who's good and who's evil?
both.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahz wrote:
both.
Exactly. So why do some people rush to choose a side, claiming that the other one is wrong or evil? Isn't finding a solution what really matters? Alvaro
Josh: So you have been married twice? You must have been young the first time around. Christian: Yeah, we were young and stupid. I was young, and she was...
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Since you lack nuance, you don't know the difference between ideology and idealogue.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
Actually this entire nuance vs. ideology theory of yours has me quite amused...
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
there is no nuance twixt right and wrong, good and evil.
Do you have children? Rick (8 years old) catches his brother Paul (6 years old) playing with one of Rick's toys. Rick proceeds to abruptly take the toy away from Paul while telling him, "That's mine". Paul gets mad and kicks Rick in the leg. Rick, who can't believe his little brother would dare do that, grabs Paul by the neck, punches him, and pushes him to the floor. Paul starts crying. Mike (that's you) walks into the room. Who's right and who's wrong? Who's good and who's evil? Alvaro
Josh: So you have been married twice? You must have been young the first time around. Christian: Yeah, we were young and stupid. I was young, and she was...
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's right and who's wrong?
Both are wrong, for different reasons.
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's good and who's evil?
Neither is "good" nor "evil". We're talking children's behavior here, there is no "nuance" involved, nor is there any fundamental moral issue, only questions of socially desireable behavior and appropriate response. Either you chose a really poor test, or you are really confused about the actual meaning of "nuance".
We need to graduate from the ridiculous notion that greed is some kind of elixir for capitalism - it's the downfall of capitalism. Self-interest, maybe, but self-interest run amok does not serve anyone. The core value of conscious capitalism is enlightened self-interest. Patricia Aburdene
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Since you lack nuance, you don't know the difference between ideology and idealogue.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
So, you would be an ideologue, then? (and one who doesn't know the difference between idealogue and ideologue). ;P
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
there is no nuance twixt right and wrong, good and evil.
Do you have children? Rick (8 years old) catches his brother Paul (6 years old) playing with one of Rick's toys. Rick proceeds to abruptly take the toy away from Paul while telling him, "That's mine". Paul gets mad and kicks Rick in the leg. Rick, who can't believe his little brother would dare do that, grabs Paul by the neck, punches him, and pushes him to the floor. Paul starts crying. Mike (that's you) walks into the room. Who's right and who's wrong? Who's good and who's evil? Alvaro
Josh: So you have been married twice? You must have been young the first time around. Christian: Yeah, we were young and stupid. I was young, and she was...
In my house, Rick is wrong, but he goes unpunished because Paul escalated the situation by being the first to strike a blow. But, if I just walked into the room and I hear two different versions, both get sent to their rooms and told to cool down, I won't make judgement beyond that on something I didn't see.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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dennisd45 wrote:
That’s why ideology, be it neoconservatism, Maoism, fundamentalist Christianity or Taliban-style Islam, is such a useful thing. Ideologues simplify things.
So you've developed the non-ideology ideology? I'll have to give it to you - that is certainly fucking nuanced. Good work.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Yeah, it sure is a lot more screwed up than your 'the good guys can do evil stuff' theory.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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It's either right or wrong, good or evil. Killing - good or evil? Right or wrong? Make your choices.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
Killing - good or evil? Right or wrong? Make your choices.
To liberals killing is always wrong, unless it is done by muslims. Have at it one voters.
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In praise of nuance[^] A selection from this article: “Nuance” is one of those words successfully poisoned by American conservatives, like “liberal” or “feminist”. Originally a term of praise, suggesting an intelligent consideration of the many sides and shades of a complex issue, it’s now a term of mockery. Dick Cheney sneers it really well, makes it sound like a construction worker mocking a gay Parisian. The problem is, some issues ARE nuanced. Some ethical and moral decisions are nuanced. Life is nuanced, unless you’re very young, very stupid, or an irredeemable idealogue of some persuasion. (Those qualities are not mutually exclusive.) That’s why ideology, be it neoconservatism, Maoism, fundamentalist Christianity or Taliban-style Islam, is such a useful thing. Ideologues simplify things. They refuse to acknowledge those nasty nuances. There’s a simple for answer for everything: you just have to consult the revealed text (be it the Koran, Das Kapital, or Fukuyama’s “End Of History”), and there’s the answer. As long as it’s derived from or consistent with your chosen revelation, no further thought is required. Nuances don’t exist. And best of all, you don’t don’t actually have to engage with any ideas that challenge your stance. If they are not in consistent with your truth, then they are self evidently wrong, because they’re - well, they’re not consistent with the Bible, the Koran, the Little Red Book or the Thoughts of Chairman Tom Flanagan. So they’re wrong. End of story. Emphasis added.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
Got my 5. The biggest problem in the soapbox is that most people come in to defend their view of the world against all comers, and mostly that is a one dimensional view. I've tried to argue otherwise, and what generally happens is that both sides of an argument accuse me of being part of the other. It's really no different to how my 6 year old acts in the playground.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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16 minutes ago, apparently. :~ If Maoism is right wing, I'm so far to the right that light is distorted.
-- Torn from tomorrow's headlines
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If Maoism is right wing, I'm so far to the right that light is distorted.
Where would that put Stan?