In praise of nuance
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Gee, Adnan, you must have deleted a lot of your own posts, because you've now only made four of them. I'm curious, how do you get the letters to render backwards ? The confirmation email says your user name is iqiddiS nandA. Here's a clue, if you want to spoof someone, try not saying something that the person in question wouldn't say in a million years.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Cant sneak anything by you X| Oh, and the rendering letters backwards thing is easy. Just use this: [bdo dir="rtl"]Text to be backwards[/bdo] of course with the [] replaced with html brackets. For instance if you wanted to spoof espeir, you would use this: [bdo dir="rtl"]riepse[/bdo]
This post is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
there is no nuance twixt right and wrong, good and evil.
Do you have children? Rick (8 years old) catches his brother Paul (6 years old) playing with one of Rick's toys. Rick proceeds to abruptly take the toy away from Paul while telling him, "That's mine". Paul gets mad and kicks Rick in the leg. Rick, who can't believe his little brother would dare do that, grabs Paul by the neck, punches him, and pushes him to the floor. Paul starts crying. Mike (that's you) walks into the room. Who's right and who's wrong? Who's good and who's evil? Alvaro
Josh: So you have been married twice? You must have been young the first time around. Christian: Yeah, we were young and stupid. I was young, and she was...
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Do you have children?
3 blood, 1 step, 9 grandkids, 1 great grandkid
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's right and who's wrong?
both. you can't have 2 kids in the room, have a problem with either innocent.
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's good and who's evil?
neither, they're simply being kids.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's right and who's wrong?
Both are wrong, for different reasons.
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Who's good and who's evil?
Neither is "good" nor "evil". We're talking children's behavior here, there is no "nuance" involved, nor is there any fundamental moral issue, only questions of socially desireable behavior and appropriate response. Either you chose a really poor test, or you are really confused about the actual meaning of "nuance".
We need to graduate from the ridiculous notion that greed is some kind of elixir for capitalism - it's the downfall of capitalism. Self-interest, maybe, but self-interest run amok does not serve anyone. The core value of conscious capitalism is enlightened self-interest. Patricia Aburdene
crap. I should have just read your reply, it was spot on.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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This is simply poppycock. "Nuance" does not denote a correct worldview or even complex thinking. It is another left-wing corruption of a term. As defined[^], it is nothing more than a "subtle difference". What subtle difference? It's not defined and is simply another left-wing term to avoid answering any real challenging questions. So when you're saying that you have a "nuanced" approach to terrorism, you're not saying anything...at all. Conservatives speak in terms of definites and absolutes because such an approach is needed in the real world. So called "nuance" is nothing but a euphemism for childish indecisiveness. That's why conservatives make fun of liberals (especially John Kerry) for it's use. It's tantamount to countering somebody's proposed solution with "Well, the world is filled with subtle differences and we should therefore do nothing." A real world example of decisiveness vs. "nuance" follows: Decisiveness: Piece of software Q will take an estimate 3 months to design and develop based on the requirements that have been acquired to date. There may be factors that effect the delivery date such as X, Y or Z. X will have this much effect, Y this much and Z this much, etc... The result is a project that will be delivered more or less on time and experts who have real world experience with this can deliver a project successfully within the given parameters. Nuance: The piece of software Q is extremely complex. As such, it's very difficult to predict how long it will take, how it will be designed, which technologies we will use, etc... There are many outside factors that could effect our ability to deliver such a project. As such, we cannot determine when the software can be delivered. Instead, we propose an organic approach by which we can meet in a community and discuss the software over an extended period of time. Which approach is likely deliver the spec'd software on time and budget? That is the difference between a decisive and a nuanced approach.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
There may be factors that effect the delivery date such as X, Y or Z. X will have this much effect, Y this much and Z this much, etc...
Actually, that would be nuanced. The other thing is just weaselly. :)
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espeir wrote:
There may be factors that effect the delivery date such as X, Y or Z. X will have this much effect, Y this much and Z this much, etc...
Actually, that would be nuanced. The other thing is just weaselly. :)
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That's sort of my point. "Nuance" as used by the left (and this is a recent thing since Kerry used the term...I'm sure regretably) as nothing more than a way to avoid actually tacking an issue or providing solutions. While the real world clearly involves solving innumerable problems every day, saying that you need to approach something in a "nuanced" way does not say anything. In fact, it's a deliberate method of avoiding real solutions. In my examples, the decisive person recognizes challenges and confronts them. The "nuanced" liberal simply claims there are too many nuances to act.
-- modified at 19:27 Thursday 10th August, 2006
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
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Cant sneak anything by you X| Oh, and the rendering letters backwards thing is easy. Just use this: [bdo dir="rtl"]Text to be backwards[/bdo] of course with the [] replaced with html brackets. For instance if you wanted to spoof espeir, you would use this: [bdo dir="rtl"]riepse[/bdo]
This post is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied.
Oh for fuck's sake, grow up!
-- Not Y3K Compliant
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Nuance is fine for humor, entertainment and other such inconsequential aspects of life, but if you're making a significant moral decision, say one involving life or death for another, you really aught to seek solider ground than a "subtle difference in opinion, meaning or attitude".[^] In this regard I disagree with both the author and the poster - most of the really consequential problems in this world are not in the least "nuanced". They may be confusing, complex, or even seemingly intractable, but they almost never involve a subtle difference in opinion or meaning, but rather a fundamental one. The left's use of nuance in this respect, serves more to obfuscate reality or to avoid recognition of a troubling fundamental disagreement than it does to help address the problems.
Rob Graham wrote:
The left's use of nuance in this respect, serves more to obfuscate reality or to avoid recognition of a troubling fundamental disagreement than it does to help address the problems.
well said and is the point I was trying to make by mocking the "nuanced world view" garbage.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Cant sneak anything by you X| Oh, and the rendering letters backwards thing is easy. Just use this: [bdo dir="rtl"]Text to be backwards[/bdo] of course with the [] replaced with html brackets. For instance if you wanted to spoof espeir, you would use this: [bdo dir="rtl"]riepse[/bdo]
This post is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied.
OK. The whole spoofing thing is childish, I'm never going to act like that. But, I was interested to know how the backwards text was done, thanks.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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That's sort of my point. "Nuance" as used by the left (and this is a recent thing since Kerry used the term...I'm sure regretably) as nothing more than a way to avoid actually tacking an issue or providing solutions. While the real world clearly involves solving innumerable problems every day, saying that you need to approach something in a "nuanced" way does not say anything. In fact, it's a deliberate method of avoiding real solutions. In my examples, the decisive person recognizes challenges and confronts them. The "nuanced" liberal simply claims there are too many nuances to act.
-- modified at 19:27 Thursday 10th August, 2006
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
While the real world clearly involves solving innumerable problems every day, saying that you need to approach something in a "nuanced" way does not say anything. In fact, it's a deliberate method of avoiding real solutions.
I agree. What a disgusting tactic.
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Gosh, you sound just like espeir. Are you actually different people?
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
There are nuanced differences between us that only nuanced abserver can discern.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
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dennisd45 quoted:
Originally a term of praise, suggesting an intelligent consideration of the many sides and shades of a complex issue, it’s now a term of mockery.
Oh, please. No one i know has ever used "nuance" as anything other than a name for a subtle aspect or feature of some larger, more important whole (at least, not around me). If, in the past, it was routinely used as a term of praise, then it never made it to where i lived. If Cheney is using it as an insult now, then someone else probably used it in an attempt to weasel out of an argument by using nuances to distract from the topic at hand. Both are the sort of tactics that should be ignored by anyone not completely in love with rhetoric. :rolleyes:
dennisd45 quoted:
Ideologues simplify things. They refuse to acknowledge those nasty nuances.
What, like pigeonholing people and opinions under vague names like "liberal", "feminist", "nuanced" "construction worker", ideologue", "neoconservative"... :sigh:
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In praise of nuance[^] A selection from this article: “Nuance” is one of those words successfully poisoned by American conservatives, like “liberal” or “feminist”. Originally a term of praise, suggesting an intelligent consideration of the many sides and shades of a complex issue, it’s now a term of mockery. Dick Cheney sneers it really well, makes it sound like a construction worker mocking a gay Parisian. The problem is, some issues ARE nuanced. Some ethical and moral decisions are nuanced. Life is nuanced, unless you’re very young, very stupid, or an irredeemable idealogue of some persuasion. (Those qualities are not mutually exclusive.) That’s why ideology, be it neoconservatism, Maoism, fundamentalist Christianity or Taliban-style Islam, is such a useful thing. Ideologues simplify things. They refuse to acknowledge those nasty nuances. There’s a simple for answer for everything: you just have to consult the revealed text (be it the Koran, Das Kapital, or Fukuyama’s “End Of History”), and there’s the answer. As long as it’s derived from or consistent with your chosen revelation, no further thought is required. Nuances don’t exist. And best of all, you don’t don’t actually have to engage with any ideas that challenge your stance. If they are not in consistent with your truth, then they are self evidently wrong, because they’re - well, they’re not consistent with the Bible, the Koran, the Little Red Book or the Thoughts of Chairman Tom Flanagan. So they’re wrong. End of story. Emphasis added.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
This has been an entertaining thread. First it's 'nothing is nuanced'. Then - since that won't work - it's 'the word can only be used in trivial matters'. Then the repetition of 'the left uses it to obscure'. Can't say that I'm suprised. I sure wouldn't have thought that 'nuance' would be so politically loaded (at least on one side of the aisle). This thread is perfect proof of the author's original premise: "“Nuance” is one of those words successfully poisoned by American conservatives". -- modified at 20:54 Thursday 10th August, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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So, you believe the word can only be used in a trivial context. You and I will have to disagree on that.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
So, you believe the word can only be used in a trivial context.
I believe only context can give the word a non-trivial meaning. Heck, this thread wouldn't exist if some politician hadn't used the word in a non-trivial context. But my point is that it's just a word; if politicians suddenly started describing their views as "nit-picking" or "piddly", the meaning would be similar - but of course, they wouldn't need anyone to point out how stupid that sounds. Put enough pigs in dresses, and pretty soon people will just associate the two...
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dennisd45 wrote:
Killing - good or evil? Right or wrong? Make your choices.
To liberals killing is always wrong, unless it is done by muslims. Have at it one voters.
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Score: 1.0 (3 votes). wrote:
To liberals killing is always wrong, unless it is done by muslims
I'm a liberal. I think killing is always wrong. Abortion is killing. It is wrong. The death penalty is killing. It is wrong. When a Muslim kills someone, unless in legitimate self-defense, it is wrong. The same goes for any person of any faith or lack thereof.
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dennisd45 wrote:
So, you believe the word can only be used in a trivial context.
I believe only context can give the word a non-trivial meaning. Heck, this thread wouldn't exist if some politician hadn't used the word in a non-trivial context. But my point is that it's just a word; if politicians suddenly started describing their views as "nit-picking" or "piddly", the meaning would be similar - but of course, they wouldn't need anyone to point out how stupid that sounds. Put enough pigs in dresses, and pretty soon people will just associate the two...
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That's pretty good, I have to admit. You don't really say much, but you make sound like you're being critical, without saying about what. Then you end with a cheesey little dig. Not bad.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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Score: 1.0 (3 votes). wrote:
To liberals killing is always wrong, unless it is done by muslims
I'm a liberal. I think killing is always wrong. Abortion is killing. It is wrong. The death penalty is killing. It is wrong. When a Muslim kills someone, unless in legitimate self-defense, it is wrong. The same goes for any person of any faith or lack thereof.
I mostly agree with you, although i think that war is justified in some cases. I was mainly just posting that to see how many one votes i could get. :)
This post is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied.
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Nuance is fine for humor, entertainment and other such inconsequential aspects of life, but if you're making a significant moral decision, say one involving life or death for another, you really aught to seek solider ground than a "subtle difference in opinion, meaning or attitude".[^] In this regard I disagree with both the author and the poster - most of the really consequential problems in this world are not in the least "nuanced". They may be confusing, complex, or even seemingly intractable, but they almost never involve a subtle difference in opinion or meaning, but rather a fundamental one. The left's use of nuance in this respect, serves more to obfuscate reality or to avoid recognition of a troubling fundamental disagreement than it does to help address the problems.
Rob Graham wrote:
most of the really consequential problems in this world are not in the least "nuanced". They may be confusing, complex, or even seemingly intractable, but they almost never involve a subtle difference in opinion or meaning
To nuance or not to nuance: UN Resolution 242 Operative Clause 1(i) requires "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict." Arab nations believe the resolution demanded that Israel retreat from all the territories it captured in the 1967 war. Israel believes it complied by retreating only from part of the territories.
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That's pretty good, I have to admit. You don't really say much, but you make sound like you're being critical, without saying about what. Then you end with a cheesey little dig. Not bad.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
You don't really say much, but you make sound like you're being critical, without saying about what.
*tsk* You're totally missing the nuances of what i'm saying... :rolleyes:
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dennisd45 wrote:
You don't really say much, but you make sound like you're being critical, without saying about what.
*tsk* You're totally missing the nuances of what i'm saying... :rolleyes:
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Oh for fuck's sake, grow up!
-- Not Y3K Compliant