Crime is Bush's fault
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link[^] As is always the case, the mainstream media has adopted the Democratic pre-election platform:
The slaying of the 20-year-old mother -- on a narrow street behind a police
station in Boston's poor Roxbury district last month -- is one of the shocking
examples of a rise in the murder rate across the United States that is raising
questions about whether police are fighting terrorism at the expense of
crime.It goes on to further blame Bush for fewer cops on the street...as if that's the federal government's role. But beyond the obvious political slant of this article, when did the presence of police become the deterrent for crime? Why would police be a deterrent, but the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens cause crime (as also suggested)? If you ask me, crime is simply the result of bad people. Poverty does not necessarily breed crime, as there are numerous honest poor people. Guns don't breed crime as there are numerous guns held by law abiding people. The presence of police only deters crime when the criminal-to-be fears their immediate presence (and will commit a crime when the opportunity arises). Interestingly enough, if you look at American murder statistics, there's a pivot points in the late 1960's. Before then murder rates were consistently very low and afterwards they were high. I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
I actually agreed with everything you said until about halfway down your last paragraph.
espeir wrote:
Poverty does not necessarily breed crime
You are right that it does not "necessarily" breed crime, in that there are (of course) honest poor people. As if that even needed to be stated. However, poverty does breed desperation, and you get enough desperate people crowded together in a tight area (as is usually the case) and someone is going to snap. The vast majority are innocent, but it does not take many malcontents to completely disrupt an area.
espeir wrote:
Interestingly enough, if you look at American murder statistics, there's a pivot points in the late 1960's. Before then murder rates were consistently very low and afterwards they were high. I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
Dammit, then you go off into the loony bin again. Yes, I am sure divorce, abortion and sex has caused all sorts of violent crime, and that it had nothing to do at all with the deterioration of inner cities and the sudden increase in drug culture that happened at the time. Anyway, violent crime has actually been falling for about 12 years now.
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link[^] As is always the case, the mainstream media has adopted the Democratic pre-election platform:
The slaying of the 20-year-old mother -- on a narrow street behind a police
station in Boston's poor Roxbury district last month -- is one of the shocking
examples of a rise in the murder rate across the United States that is raising
questions about whether police are fighting terrorism at the expense of
crime.It goes on to further blame Bush for fewer cops on the street...as if that's the federal government's role. But beyond the obvious political slant of this article, when did the presence of police become the deterrent for crime? Why would police be a deterrent, but the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens cause crime (as also suggested)? If you ask me, crime is simply the result of bad people. Poverty does not necessarily breed crime, as there are numerous honest poor people. Guns don't breed crime as there are numerous guns held by law abiding people. The presence of police only deters crime when the criminal-to-be fears their immediate presence (and will commit a crime when the opportunity arises). Interestingly enough, if you look at American murder statistics, there's a pivot points in the late 1960's. Before then murder rates were consistently very low and afterwards they were high. I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
espeir wrote:
If you ask me...
Or, apparently, even if we don't...
espeir wrote:
Why would police be a deterrent, but the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens cause crime (as also suggested)?
Increasing police presence would be a deterrent because it always has been. Crime increases in an area, the police increase visibility in that area, crime goes down. It's not a solution I agree with, but it certainly does work. I happen to think possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens educated in their use is also an effective deterrent to violent crime.
espeir wrote:
I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
So you're discarding the patently ridiculous assertion that governmental policy is partly responsible for an increase in violent crime, and replacing it with the logically sound assertion that the cause of an increase in violent crime in the last few years is due to hippies... You can't argue with logic like that.
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I actually agreed with everything you said until about halfway down your last paragraph.
espeir wrote:
Poverty does not necessarily breed crime
You are right that it does not "necessarily" breed crime, in that there are (of course) honest poor people. As if that even needed to be stated. However, poverty does breed desperation, and you get enough desperate people crowded together in a tight area (as is usually the case) and someone is going to snap. The vast majority are innocent, but it does not take many malcontents to completely disrupt an area.
espeir wrote:
Interestingly enough, if you look at American murder statistics, there's a pivot points in the late 1960's. Before then murder rates were consistently very low and afterwards they were high. I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
Dammit, then you go off into the loony bin again. Yes, I am sure divorce, abortion and sex has caused all sorts of violent crime, and that it had nothing to do at all with the deterioration of inner cities and the sudden increase in drug culture that happened at the time. Anyway, violent crime has actually been falling for about 12 years now.
David Kentley wrote:
You are right that it does not "necessarily" breed crime, in that there are (of course) honest poor people. As if that even needed to be stated. However, poverty does breed desperation, and you get enough desperate people crowded together in a tight area (as is usually the case) and someone is going to snap. The vast majority are innocent, but it does not take many malcontents to completely disrupt an area.
Crime is rarely the result of people "snapping" but of people with poor character who want the quick and easy. That's why the vast majority of crime is committed by young people.
David Kentley wrote:
Dammit, then you go off into the loony bin again. Yes, I am sure divorce, abortion and sex has caused all sorts of violent crime, and that it had nothing to do at all with the deterioration of inner cities and the sudden increase in drug culture that happened at the time.
Actually the deterioration of inner cities can be directly tied back to the breakdown of the family unit, but that's the result of another liberal political policy (welfare). Nearly 90% of all inner city black children are now born to mothers out of wedlock, reinforcing my point that if you're simply bad (often the result of being poorly raised) then you're going to commit crime. Liberal social policy encourages bad parenting.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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link[^] As is always the case, the mainstream media has adopted the Democratic pre-election platform:
The slaying of the 20-year-old mother -- on a narrow street behind a police
station in Boston's poor Roxbury district last month -- is one of the shocking
examples of a rise in the murder rate across the United States that is raising
questions about whether police are fighting terrorism at the expense of
crime.It goes on to further blame Bush for fewer cops on the street...as if that's the federal government's role. But beyond the obvious political slant of this article, when did the presence of police become the deterrent for crime? Why would police be a deterrent, but the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens cause crime (as also suggested)? If you ask me, crime is simply the result of bad people. Poverty does not necessarily breed crime, as there are numerous honest poor people. Guns don't breed crime as there are numerous guns held by law abiding people. The presence of police only deters crime when the criminal-to-be fears their immediate presence (and will commit a crime when the opportunity arises). Interestingly enough, if you look at American murder statistics, there's a pivot points in the late 1960's. Before then murder rates were consistently very low and afterwards they were high. I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants. Its is just a matter of want versus risk. All of us are potential criminals, just increase the want and reduce the risk and you will find a point at which all of us will consider it a good bet and go for it.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants. Its is just a matter of want versus risk. All of us are potential criminals, just increase the want and reduce the risk and you will find a point at which all of us will consider it a good bet and go for it.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants.
:wtf: No, a criminal is someone who is willing to harm others to get what he wants.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud
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espeir wrote:
If you ask me...
Or, apparently, even if we don't...
espeir wrote:
Why would police be a deterrent, but the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens cause crime (as also suggested)?
Increasing police presence would be a deterrent because it always has been. Crime increases in an area, the police increase visibility in that area, crime goes down. It's not a solution I agree with, but it certainly does work. I happen to think possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens educated in their use is also an effective deterrent to violent crime.
espeir wrote:
I'm sure it's more than coincidence that this point in US history marked the rapid increase in divorce, abortion and moral permisiveness.
So you're discarding the patently ridiculous assertion that governmental policy is partly responsible for an increase in violent crime, and replacing it with the logically sound assertion that the cause of an increase in violent crime in the last few years is due to hippies... You can't argue with logic like that.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Increasing police presence would be a deterrent because it always has been. Crime increases in an area, the police increase visibility in that area, crime goes down. It's not a solution I agree with, but it certainly does work. I happen to think possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens educated in their use is also an effective deterrent to violent crime.
Wait...You're the one who's concerned about a police state. Oh yeah...Now that the Democrats want to make it a political issue it's ok (*cough*hive mind*cough*).
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So you're discarding the patently ridiculous assertion that governmental policy is partly responsible for an increase in violent crime, and replacing it with the logically sound assertion that the cause of an increase in violent crime in the last few years is due to hippies...
Actually violent crime has remained fairly steadily low since the mid-90's, even including the cited increase, which fluxuates from year-to-year. Historically, there is a single point at which crime skyrocketted and that was the late 60's. Once Republicans took control of the government, crime declined to current levels.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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fat_boy wrote:
A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants.
:wtf: No, a criminal is someone who is willing to harm others to get what he wants.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud
Score: 1.0 (3 votes). wrote:
No, a criminal is someone who is willing to harm others to get what he wants
No, you are wrong: Lets say I grow canabis in my garden. It is a criminal act, it hurts no one else, and I considder it a risk worth taking because a) the punishment is not that bad, b) I really like to smoke a j or two. Crime does not have to have a victim.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants. Its is just a matter of want versus risk. All of us are potential criminals, just increase the want and reduce the risk and you will find a point at which all of us will consider it a good bet and go for it.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants.
I always thought that a criminal is someone who breaks the law.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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Score: 1.0 (3 votes). wrote:
No, a criminal is someone who is willing to harm others to get what he wants
No, you are wrong: Lets say I grow canabis in my garden. It is a criminal act, it hurts no one else, and I considder it a risk worth taking because a) the punishment is not that bad, b) I really like to smoke a j or two. Crime does not have to have a victim.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
Crime does not have to have a victim.
Well...Technically your neighbors have to live next to you, so I would argue with that point.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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fat_boy wrote:
A criminal is a person who will take a higher than average risk to get what he wants.
I always thought that a criminal is someone who breaks the law.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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fat_boy wrote:
Crime does not have to have a victim.
Well...Technically your neighbors have to live next to you, so I would argue with that point.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
espeir wrote:
Technically your neighbors have to live next to you, so I would argue with that point
I am struggling to comprehend the logic behind this statement. Living next door to someone who grows canabis makes you a victim? What the fuck? Are you serious?
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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espeir wrote:
Technically your neighbors have to live next to you, so I would argue with that point
I am struggling to comprehend the logic behind this statement. Living next door to someone who grows canabis makes you a victim? What the fuck? Are you serious?
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
Living next door to someone who grows canabis makes you a victim? What the f***? Are you serious?
More specifically, living next door to YOU growing cannibis. :-D
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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espeir wrote:
a criminal is someone who breaks the law
Not always. It is illegal to drive at 100 mph in the UK. To break this law is not a criminal act.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
I would think that fits the definition of a criminal[^] act, though not a serious one...unless you're driving through a school zone while hopped up on your wacky weed.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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Score: 1.0 (3 votes). wrote:
No, a criminal is someone who is willing to harm others to get what he wants
No, you are wrong: Lets say I grow canabis in my garden. It is a criminal act, it hurts no one else, and I considder it a risk worth taking because a) the punishment is not that bad, b) I really like to smoke a j or two. Crime does not have to have a victim.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
I thought you were referring to theft
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud
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I would think that fits the definition of a criminal[^] act, though not a serious one...unless you're driving through a school zone while hopped up on your wacky weed.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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espeir wrote:
I would think
Your thoughts are of little import, motoring offences are NOT criminal offences.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Then what would you consider it? A snafu?
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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I thought you were referring to theft
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud
Doesnt matter, a criminal is still someone whoose risk vs. reward balance is squewed. Lets say you were starving hungry, like close to death hungry, and you passed an orchard full of trees. There is no wall or fence and there are apples lying on the ground. It is a criminal act to steal an apple, yet I will bet almost every person alive on this earth will commit that criminal act in that situation.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Increasing police presence would be a deterrent because it always has been. Crime increases in an area, the police increase visibility in that area, crime goes down. It's not a solution I agree with, but it certainly does work. I happen to think possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens educated in their use is also an effective deterrent to violent crime.
Wait...You're the one who's concerned about a police state. Oh yeah...Now that the Democrats want to make it a political issue it's ok (*cough*hive mind*cough*).
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So you're discarding the patently ridiculous assertion that governmental policy is partly responsible for an increase in violent crime, and replacing it with the logically sound assertion that the cause of an increase in violent crime in the last few years is due to hippies...
Actually violent crime has remained fairly steadily low since the mid-90's, even including the cited increase, which fluxuates from year-to-year. Historically, there is a single point at which crime skyrocketted and that was the late 60's. Once Republicans took control of the government, crime declined to current levels.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
espeir wrote:
You're the one who's concerned about a police state.
What part of "it's not a solution I agree with" didn't you understand?
espeir wrote:
Democrats want to make it a political issue
espeir wrote:
Once Republicans took control of the government, crime declined to current levels.
:laugh: I imagine when someone asks you for the time, you tell them instead how the tyrannical oligarchy at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures is part of a leftist plot to subvert time and assume control of the world's clocks, and only by putting it to a community vote is there hope for true Jeffersonian time to prevail.
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Doesnt matter, a criminal is still someone whoose risk vs. reward balance is squewed. Lets say you were starving hungry, like close to death hungry, and you passed an orchard full of trees. There is no wall or fence and there are apples lying on the ground. It is a criminal act to steal an apple, yet I will bet almost every person alive on this earth will commit that criminal act in that situation.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
Lets say you were starving hungry, like close to death hungry, and you passed an orchard full of trees. There is no wall or fence and there are apples lying on the ground.
I think that your risk vs. reward balance would be skewed if you didn't commit a crime in that situation.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45 "Liberals do not exist. You invented them to facilitate your strawman arguments." -dennisd45 "The Communist Manifest was written 150 years ago. It has been rigorously tested and is accepted by left"
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Doesnt matter, a criminal is still someone whoose risk vs. reward balance is squewed. Lets say you were starving hungry, like close to death hungry, and you passed an orchard full of trees. There is no wall or fence and there are apples lying on the ground. It is a criminal act to steal an apple, yet I will bet almost every person alive on this earth will commit that criminal act in that situation.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Of course, but in a well-fed country like America or England, people mostly dont steal food. Like after hurricane Katrina, the people who stayed looted electronics and alchohol.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud