.Net vs Java
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this
Not really, but you already gave most of the answers. '... They'll be offering BETTER ...'. And so they will. '... java is already 5 years old'. Has it prevailed? I don't think we'll be waiting whole year for this thing to come. Next spring, most probably. I'll be waiting. Regards, Deja
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this
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I am just curious... If you program C++ now, why would you switch to C# or Java? Isn't that a step backward
All rhetoric aside, if you use Microsoft products to write applications (call them Windows applications or Windows based web applications), then you either follow the Microsoft flag or your a fringe player. Microsoft has made it pretty clear that virtually all of their interests, resources, funding, advertising, etc., will be in support of .Net. VB7 is .Net only. Fast forward a year or two and being a top C++ developer will be valuable to a much smaller subset of the community. No question that C++ will *always* be faster and more flexible, but in 99% of cases, that's not going to be necessary. I'm not going to "unlearn" C++, but I forsee that in 12-24 months if you're developing against Microsoft's servers, it'll be VB7 or VC7/C#. So the question for me is: Do I learn/buy books/get certified in the murky world of .Net or in the not-so-murky world of Java/J2EE
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All rhetoric aside, if you use Microsoft products to write applications (call them Windows applications or Windows based web applications), then you either follow the Microsoft flag or your a fringe player. Microsoft has made it pretty clear that virtually all of their interests, resources, funding, advertising, etc., will be in support of .Net. VB7 is .Net only. Fast forward a year or two and being a top C++ developer will be valuable to a much smaller subset of the community. No question that C++ will *always* be faster and more flexible, but in 99% of cases, that's not going to be necessary. I'm not going to "unlearn" C++, but I forsee that in 12-24 months if you're developing against Microsoft's servers, it'll be VB7 or VC7/C#. So the question for me is: Do I learn/buy books/get certified in the murky world of .Net or in the not-so-murky world of Java/J2EE
With your pro-MS stance, haven't you answered your own question about Java vs. .Net? My lang of choice is C++ and MFC. That's why I am here. So obviously, I have jumped on the MS bandwagon, and I take the good with the bad. But just because MS comes out with a new technology, doesn't make it better. Rember ISAPI anyone? I was never a fan of COM to the extent that MS hyped it (read my other rantings on this subject). .NET includes support for C++ and I think that is how I will use it, if I use it, and assuming the common language runtime concept even works. I read the MSDN hype for why C# is better than C++ and I don't buy a single argument (as a competent C++ programmer, anyway). The only thing about .NET that looks genuinely appealing is ASP+. The rest is excessively meretricious. As for Java, I dislike the language, the development tools are poor compared to MS products, swing provides poor user interfaces no matter what platform you are on, and there is no such thing as "write once, run anywhere". That being said, you seem to be quite career minded and there is more demand for Java programmers than for MFC/C++
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With your pro-MS stance, haven't you answered your own question about Java vs. .Net? My lang of choice is C++ and MFC. That's why I am here. So obviously, I have jumped on the MS bandwagon, and I take the good with the bad. But just because MS comes out with a new technology, doesn't make it better. Rember ISAPI anyone? I was never a fan of COM to the extent that MS hyped it (read my other rantings on this subject). .NET includes support for C++ and I think that is how I will use it, if I use it, and assuming the common language runtime concept even works. I read the MSDN hype for why C# is better than C++ and I don't buy a single argument (as a competent C++ programmer, anyway). The only thing about .NET that looks genuinely appealing is ASP+. The rest is excessively meretricious. As for Java, I dislike the language, the development tools are poor compared to MS products, swing provides poor user interfaces no matter what platform you are on, and there is no such thing as "write once, run anywhere". That being said, you seem to be quite career minded and there is more demand for Java programmers than for MFC/C++
Hmmm, I didn't think I was being particularly pro-MS, but hey, maybe I am. I've heard very good things about IBM's Visual Age for Java, but haven't poked very deeply into it. No question that the Java movement needs a tool of the quality of Visual Studio, and I'm surprised it hasn't emerged. C# is basically Java, MS-style. There are some subtle differences, but fundamentally Microsoft couldn't support Java, so they had to grow their own. I see the entire .Net thing as a complete endorsement of Java, with the extensions that Microsoft would've like to have made if they were allowed. As far as ISAPI is concerned, well, I use it all the time ;) Seriously.
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this
Wow, I'm kind of surprised at the lack of responses. This indicates to me that most CP people really don't feel confident offering a comment on Java, which is unfortunate. I'm no Java expert, but I know enough about it to consider it a very serious competitor to .Net, and Microsoft's programming environments in general. Everytime I talk to anyone who's landed a $1M+ contract for a consulting gig, it seems to have been in Java, working for a Fortune 100 company. Microsoft gigs seem to be more prevalent, but pay quite a bit less, and usually for much smaller companies. For me .Net must offer a significant advantage over Java (which in many ways I think it does) for it to be a viable platform. This is a serious question I think, and really want to understand where best to move forward. Andre
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With your pro-MS stance, haven't you answered your own question about Java vs. .Net? My lang of choice is C++ and MFC. That's why I am here. So obviously, I have jumped on the MS bandwagon, and I take the good with the bad. But just because MS comes out with a new technology, doesn't make it better. Rember ISAPI anyone? I was never a fan of COM to the extent that MS hyped it (read my other rantings on this subject). .NET includes support for C++ and I think that is how I will use it, if I use it, and assuming the common language runtime concept even works. I read the MSDN hype for why C# is better than C++ and I don't buy a single argument (as a competent C++ programmer, anyway). The only thing about .NET that looks genuinely appealing is ASP+. The rest is excessively meretricious. As for Java, I dislike the language, the development tools are poor compared to MS products, swing provides poor user interfaces no matter what platform you are on, and there is no such thing as "write once, run anywhere". That being said, you seem to be quite career minded and there is more demand for Java programmers than for MFC/C++
I think you can say that the .NET strategy will be safe to bet on as well as Java. Personally, I would rather program under .NET. The one thing I have found is that even when I have switched frameworks under Windows (MFC->ATL/COM->WTL) the constant was that my familiarity with the Windows API always benefited me. That is, it helps to know why things are happening under the surface of your chosen framework. This is why I can't stand VB (for the most part). While I can always dig into the source of MFC/ATL/WTL, I can't do that with VB. And in virtually every serious program I've written with it, it traps me somewhere ... either with funky meaningless error messages that don't give the real source of the problem or with behind-the-scenes crap in the framework that I can't get to and interferes with what I need to do. This is really why I'm afraid of C#. While I hate COM as much as the next person, I really fear that it is going to turn into the C++ equivalent of VB. For that reason, I'm going to evaluate it seriously when it comes out, but I'm keeping one foot firmly planted in the C++ world. (Even if I have to mark all my code as "unsafe" under C#. What a hoot. :) Brando
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this
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I am just curious... If you program C++ now, why would you switch to C# or Java? Isn't that a step backward
If I am working on C++ and I need net programming using either Java or C# ( to get rid of C++ complexity - the one and only one reason I would switch to JAva or C# ), then my preference would go for C#. The obvious reason is I dont want to learn one more programming envioronment ( Sun ) while I am using Visual Studio (.NET) . But if somebody is already using Java then I don't see any point him to moving towards C#.
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this
I agree with the surprise on the lack of responce. From my perspective and influence with my company your missing the core issue. JAVA is a proprietary language owned by a single company. It is a great concept that is limited by that fact. We will just have to see how .Net is recieved, to me the fact that it is being released as a public standard is a big factor. Microsoft or not
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I agree with the surprise on the lack of responce. From my perspective and influence with my company your missing the core issue. JAVA is a proprietary language owned by a single company. It is a great concept that is limited by that fact. We will just have to see how .Net is recieved, to me the fact that it is being released as a public standard is a big factor. Microsoft or not
Michael, If I'm correct, what Microsoft is releasing to ECMA is the C# language specification, not .Net itself. The language becomes "open" I suppose, but Microsoft still fundamentally controls the CLR, the MSIL and all the services architecture. In the Java world, it would be like making the Java language open, but not J2EE (the comprehensive suite of services that J2EE describes, and for which Sun demands strict licensing) And
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I've been tooling around the net for a few hours looking for a good comparison of .Net and Java, and I have yet to find one, so I thought I'd toss this out to the obviously MS-biased (please don't take that the wrong way) people here on codeproject.com From what I can see, Microsoft is basically promising to match what Java currently offers, with nicer packaging, better IDEs, etc. in about a year or so. MS also appear to be offering better UI development stuff, people hate Swing, and ASP+, WebForms and WinForms appear at least to be superior at this point. But why would I wait a year for a version 1.0 platform to write against when Java is already 5 years old, debugged, well documented and supported? Won't someone just come out with a JSP+ interface development library? I understand that .Net offers a home for all wayward programmers, by offering a couple of dozen "CLR compatible" languages, and java is, well, just java. This isn't important to me however, I write C++ now, and will either go Java or C#. Someone got a bigger perspective on this