If there is a god
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Michael P Butler wrote: Burning in the fires of hell is to good for these so called priests. I think they need a bullet through the brain. Agreed! X| The problem (as I see it) with the Catholic church and pedophile priests stems back to the celibacy issue. Priests are normal humans. Sexual activity is an important part of human activity and development. There are several schools of thought on this issue: 1) Leaving your sexual desires unfulfilled for so many years can cause problems psychologically. This theory maintains that the celibate life of a priest causes the perversion of pedophilia. 2) Pedophiles purposefully join the priesthood to purposefully get near children and be in a position of power. 3) Pedophiles purposefully join the priesthood because they do not fit into society and the celibacy issue seems to be a non-issue for them or a rationalization for them not to have a normal adult/adult relationship. After enough time, their pedophile tendancies emerge anyway. In my opinion, it's probably a blend of all three. Sad. :~
Mike Mullikin :beer:Our lager, Who art in barrels, Hallowed be thy drink, Thy will be drunk, (I will be drunk) At home as I am in the tavern, Give us this day our foamy head, And forgive us our spillages, As we forgive those who spill against us, And lead us not to incarceration, But deliver us from hangovers, For thine is beer, The bitter and the lager, Forever and ever, Barmen.:beer:
Mike Mullikin wrote: The problem (as I see it) with the Catholic church and pedophile priests stems back to the celibacy issue. Priests are normal humans. Sexual activity is an important part of human activity and development. The Bible actually prophecies that there will be false teachers who amongst other things wrongly teach enforced celibacy. As to the list, I'd suggest #2 is probably the strongest factor. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Mike Mullikin wrote: The problem (as I see it) with the Catholic church and pedophile priests stems back to the celibacy issue. Priests are normal humans. Sexual activity is an important part of human activity and development. The Bible actually prophecies that there will be false teachers who amongst other things wrongly teach enforced celibacy. As to the list, I'd suggest #2 is probably the strongest factor. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: The Bible actually prophecies that there will be false teachers who amongst other things wrongly teach enforced celibacy. Hi Christian can I ask for a reference to that out of curiosity. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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If there is a god, I think this proves he doesn't give a fuck. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1945000/1945848.stm Burning in the fires of hell is to good for these so called priests. I think they need a bullet through the brain. Michael :-)
Michael P Butler wrote: Burning in the fires of hell is to good for these so called priests. I think they need a bullet through the brain. I find it hard to disagree with you. However what has the Pope and Roman Catholic Church got to do with God? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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Christian Graus wrote: The Bible actually prophecies that there will be false teachers who amongst other things wrongly teach enforced celibacy. Hi Christian can I ask for a reference to that out of curiosity. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Thanks, I'll check my version for it. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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Christian Graus wrote: The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Thanks, I'll check my version for it. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
I have about 10 Bibles in my software, which version do you prefer ( for future reference ) ? Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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I have about 10 Bibles in my software, which version do you prefer ( for future reference ) ? Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: I have about 10 Bibles in my software, Ten !! That soundz like it could cause confusion. In English my real preference is the Geneva Bible, as it was accepted by Calvin and Knox plus had sort of margin notes of the translations. I only use the standard bible as a reference though and prefer other texts :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: and commanding to abstain from meats I checked my old Swedish bible, and that line was (translated to English): "and commanding to abstain from a variety of food" I wonder how much of it's original meaning the bible has lost during the years.. :confused: /moliate
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Christian Graus wrote: and commanding to abstain from meats I checked my old Swedish bible, and that line was (translated to English): "and commanding to abstain from a variety of food" I wonder how much of it's original meaning the bible has lost during the years.. :confused: /moliate
Yes, I guess I should have gone NKJV or maybe NIV. While the example from the RCC I can think of involves meat in the modern sense of the word, I was aware that in the KJV the word meat = food in general. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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If there is a god, I think this proves he doesn't give a fuck. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1945000/1945848.stm Burning in the fires of hell is to good for these so called priests. I think they need a bullet through the brain. Michael :-)
You've got it all mixed up, mate. The central figure of catholism isn't God or Christ; it's the Pope. You can't equate Catholism with Christianity though Catholics are sort of Christians. Besides, some priests are deviants doesn't mean all are deviants. Michael P Butler wrote: If there is a god We,human beings, think with our limited brain and knowledge we can prove or disprove the existence of God. There is much more to the universe and existence than we ever might know. Michael P Butler wrote: he doesn't give a f***. God doesn't give a f*** about those who don't seek him, worship him and obey him. Clearly, the deviant people don't obey him. Michael P Butler wrote: they need a bullet through the brain. Who has the moral right to do that? Other sinners? Hence the hell fires. :)
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1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: Forbidding to marry, :omg: You mean the bible states that preaching celibacy is the doctrine of devils? And no one noticed? :wtf: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), but still... cheers, Chris Maunder
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Christian Graus wrote: Forbidding to marry, :omg: You mean the bible states that preaching celibacy is the doctrine of devils? And no one noticed? :wtf: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), but still... cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: You mean the bible states that preaching celibacy is the doctrine of devils? And no one noticed? No-one seems to have noticed a lot of what the Bible says... Chris Maunder wrote: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), but still... The context is that the Bible only accepts sex in marriage. Beyond that, the Bible encourages it, in fact it tells married people they have a duty not to deny their partner sex. The idea of a celibate priesthood is completely unBiblical - Jesus said some people are by nature celibate ( actually, I think it was Paul ), but enforcing it or enshrining it as a sign of Holiness is simply not in line with what the Bible says. Thank goodness for that. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: Forbidding to marry, :omg: You mean the bible states that preaching celibacy is the doctrine of devils? And no one noticed? :wtf: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), but still... cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: And no one noticed? LOL, Chris the Catholic church only really forced the priests into celbacy in the 12 th century. Some priests even had multiple wives. Chris Maunder wrote: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), I don't think so, not about this. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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Chris Maunder wrote: You mean the bible states that preaching celibacy is the doctrine of devils? And no one noticed? No-one seems to have noticed a lot of what the Bible says... Chris Maunder wrote: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), but still... The context is that the Bible only accepts sex in marriage. Beyond that, the Bible encourages it, in fact it tells married people they have a duty not to deny their partner sex. The idea of a celibate priesthood is completely unBiblical - Jesus said some people are by nature celibate ( actually, I think it was Paul ), but enforcing it or enshrining it as a sign of Holiness is simply not in line with what the Bible says. Thank goodness for that. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: The idea of a celibate priesthood is completely unBiblical Isn't that because of the confession in the Catholic church? At least that is what I have heard. A confessor should be prepared to die rather than telling someone about what he has been told. That is a lot harder with a wife and seven children. Or is that just an explanation that has come up afterwards to justify the celibacy? :confused: /moliate --------------- In an ancient monastary a new monk arrived to join the brothers in copying books and scrolls in the library. Because he was still so young, he was assigned as a proof reader on copies of books that had already been copied by hand. One day, he asked Father Florian, the overseer of the library, 'Does not the copying by hand of other copies allow for the chance of error? How do we know that we are not copying the mistakes of someone else? Are they ever checked against the original?' Fr. Florian was set back by this obvious logical question from one so young, but said, ' That is a very good point, my son. I will take one of the latest copies down to the vault and compare it against the oldest book we have.' Fr. Florian went down to the vault and began his verification. After a whole day had passed without his return, the other monks were concerned, so they went looking for the old priest, as they approached the vault, they could hear through the open door, sobbing and crying. When they go to the door and looked in, Fr. Florian was sitting on the floor with both the new and the obviously ancient volume lying in his lap. It appeared that he had been crying for a long time. 'What is the problem, Reverend Father?', aksed one of the monks. 'Oh, My Lord, the word is 'celebrate'!'
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Christian Graus wrote: The idea of a celibate priesthood is completely unBiblical Isn't that because of the confession in the Catholic church? At least that is what I have heard. A confessor should be prepared to die rather than telling someone about what he has been told. That is a lot harder with a wife and seven children. Or is that just an explanation that has come up afterwards to justify the celibacy? :confused: /moliate --------------- In an ancient monastary a new monk arrived to join the brothers in copying books and scrolls in the library. Because he was still so young, he was assigned as a proof reader on copies of books that had already been copied by hand. One day, he asked Father Florian, the overseer of the library, 'Does not the copying by hand of other copies allow for the chance of error? How do we know that we are not copying the mistakes of someone else? Are they ever checked against the original?' Fr. Florian was set back by this obvious logical question from one so young, but said, ' That is a very good point, my son. I will take one of the latest copies down to the vault and compare it against the oldest book we have.' Fr. Florian went down to the vault and began his verification. After a whole day had passed without his return, the other monks were concerned, so they went looking for the old priest, as they approached the vault, they could hear through the open door, sobbing and crying. When they go to the door and looked in, Fr. Florian was sitting on the floor with both the new and the obviously ancient volume lying in his lap. It appeared that he had been crying for a long time. 'What is the problem, Reverend Father?', aksed one of the monks. 'Oh, My Lord, the word is 'celebrate'!'
I dunno where the celibacy came from, but the confessional is another invention, and one quite useful to the RCC as a power structure in times gone by. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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I dunno where the celibacy came from, but the confessional is another invention, and one quite useful to the RCC as a power structure in times gone by. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: I dunno where the celibacy came from, It was a way of having more control over the priests lives. One Pope had all the priests wives and children rounded up and sold into slaverly. The big thing about being a priest was you were one of the few people capable of reading. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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You've got it all mixed up, mate. The central figure of catholism isn't God or Christ; it's the Pope. You can't equate Catholism with Christianity though Catholics are sort of Christians. Besides, some priests are deviants doesn't mean all are deviants. Michael P Butler wrote: If there is a god We,human beings, think with our limited brain and knowledge we can prove or disprove the existence of God. There is much more to the universe and existence than we ever might know. Michael P Butler wrote: he doesn't give a f***. God doesn't give a f*** about those who don't seek him, worship him and obey him. Clearly, the deviant people don't obey him. Michael P Butler wrote: they need a bullet through the brain. Who has the moral right to do that? Other sinners? Hence the hell fires. :)
omg wrote: God doesn't give a f*** about those who don't seek him, worship him and obey him. Clearly, the deviant people don't obey him. OK, but what about the children who believe in him who are fucked over by the deviant priests. Why doesn't this omnipotent, omnipresent being zip on down and save the child? That question right there pisses all over the, "there is a God who loves us" dribble. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "He orginally got the Tweezers of Destruction through the scanners but then popped back outside for a smoke." - Chris Maunder 26/03/2002
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Chris Maunder wrote: And no one noticed? LOL, Chris the Catholic church only really forced the priests into celbacy in the 12 th century. Some priests even had multiple wives. Chris Maunder wrote: I'm sure there's probably a counterpoint or balancing argument (or even context that may be applied), I don't think so, not about this. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
****Colin Davies wrote: Chris the Catholic church only really forced the priests into celbacy in the 12 th century. Some priests even had multiple wives. Colin, do you have some links on this and other religious matters? I also believe that celibate priests are a rather modern thing, though I thought more along the lines of keeping all wealth in the church. No family no need for possesions to stay in the family. Another thing I have heard over the years is the whole religious thing started in England during wars with other countries. There was no way to get the masses to rise up and fight for the King, but for a God who would save your soul was another matter. The whole layout of the church with King/Pope at head, ArchBishops, Bishops, Cardinals, Priests seems a little too military ofr my likings. Never did any real research into any of this and I suppose I should if I want to express opinions on the matter. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "He orginally got the Tweezers of Destruction through the scanners but then popped back outside for a smoke." - Chris Maunder 26/03/2002
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I have about 10 Bibles in my software, which version do you prefer ( for future reference ) ? Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian, if I was looking to purchase a Bible to read since I haven't read one for 20 years which would you recommend. I want one that isn't too flowery in the old fashioned English but also one that is as close to the original as exists. Have I created an oxymoron/contradiction? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "He orginally got the Tweezers of Destruction through the scanners but then popped back outside for a smoke." - Chris Maunder 26/03/2002
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If there is a god, I think this proves he doesn't give a fuck. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1945000/1945848.stm Burning in the fires of hell is to good for these so called priests. I think they need a bullet through the brain. Michael :-)
I don't understand why, with so many nuns around them, why they have to go for kids, then the celebacy issue would have some footing. Now they just look like a bunch of pervs.:~ If there is a god, it has nothing to do with this. The church is a man made organization and as such is vulnerable to the evils of mankind. The catholic church is a terrible thing. It has repeatedly knowingly and willfully looked away when great evil threatened it(Nazis and child molesters), and then tried to cover up the truth; All the while taking peoples money and passing judgement on the rest of the world. The Catholic church has been fucking people for too long. I say fuck them!!:mad: :mad: ...with a splintered broom stick covered in fish hooks and razor blades!!:mad: :mad: Josh Knox that-guy.net
I doubt, therefore I might be.