Global Warming... on Mars?
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Aparently so: The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes that are occurring on the same time scales as Earth's most recent climate shifts ... the south polar residual cap is not permanent. It is disappearing, a little bit more each southern spring and summer season. At the present rate, a layer 3 m thick can be completely eroded away in a few tens of martian years[^] What? Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth? I wonder what could be the cause? Couldnt be due to that big hot thing in the solar system called the sun could it? What is for sure is that it isnt due to the Carbon Footprint of those SUV driving Martians.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Aparently so: The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes that are occurring on the same time scales as Earth's most recent climate shifts ... the south polar residual cap is not permanent. It is disappearing, a little bit more each southern spring and summer season. At the present rate, a layer 3 m thick can be completely eroded away in a few tens of martian years[^] What? Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth? I wonder what could be the cause? Couldnt be due to that big hot thing in the solar system called the sun could it? What is for sure is that it isnt due to the Carbon Footprint of those SUV driving Martians.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Aren't there two Rovers running on the Mars? :~
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Aren't there two Rovers running on the Mars? :~
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Aparently so: The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes that are occurring on the same time scales as Earth's most recent climate shifts ... the south polar residual cap is not permanent. It is disappearing, a little bit more each southern spring and summer season. At the present rate, a layer 3 m thick can be completely eroded away in a few tens of martian years[^] What? Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth? I wonder what could be the cause? Couldnt be due to that big hot thing in the solar system called the sun could it? What is for sure is that it isnt due to the Carbon Footprint of those SUV driving Martians.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes
fat_boy wrote:
Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth?
For a man that refuses to believe C02 oncentration can lead to a global warming because of the non existence of an absolute proof, I find funny that you have no problem to accept this theory as a fact.
Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall? Fold with us! ¤ flickr
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fat_boy wrote:
The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes
fat_boy wrote:
Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth?
For a man that refuses to believe C02 oncentration can lead to a global warming because of the non existence of an absolute proof, I find funny that you have no problem to accept this theory as a fact.
Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall? Fold with us! ¤ flickr
K(arl) wrote:
For a man that refuses to believe C02 oncentration can lead to a global warming because of the non existence of an absolute proof, I find funny that you have no problem to accept this theory as a fact.
What theory? It is a fact that the Earth and Mars are warming not a theory.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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K(arl) wrote:
For a man that refuses to believe C02 oncentration can lead to a global warming because of the non existence of an absolute proof, I find funny that you have no problem to accept this theory as a fact.
What theory? It is a fact that the Earth and Mars are warming not a theory.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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The theory is that Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth.
Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall? Fold with us! ¤ flickr
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Dissapearing ice caps is not a theory, its a fact!
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
You would have to proove the correlation between both warmings before supposing the Sun is responsible in both cases. So, where is the proof?
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread Fold with us! ¤ flickr
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You would have to proove the correlation between both warmings before supposing the Sun is responsible in both cases. So, where is the proof?
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread Fold with us! ¤ flickr
Once again, to qoute the link: 'images of the south polar cap taken in 1999 were compared with images of the same locations taken in 2001, and it was discovered that pits had enlarged, mesas had shrunk' No theory there Karl, just observation of ice cap shrinkage between 1999 and 2001. Earth too has undergone Arcitc ice cap shrinkage over the same time period. That too is a fact. That the sun is the cause is a theory. It could be due to giant reflector that we didnt know was there that was in the way of the sun from both planets and has now gone. That would be a second, though somewhat ridiculous theory. A third and even more outlandish theory would be that someone bult a space ship, flew to Mars, and fired up a whole load of oxy-acetylane torchess just to make Mars hotter. However, if we limit ourselves to the facts: two planets in the solar system are showing signs of increasing temperatures at the same time, and that at that time solar activity is at its highest for some many years (scientists differ on whether it is 1000 years or 8000 years). Draw from those three facts Karl what conclusion you will.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Aparently so: The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes that are occurring on the same time scales as Earth's most recent climate shifts ... the south polar residual cap is not permanent. It is disappearing, a little bit more each southern spring and summer season. At the present rate, a layer 3 m thick can be completely eroded away in a few tens of martian years[^] What? Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth? I wonder what could be the cause? Couldnt be due to that big hot thing in the solar system called the sun could it? What is for sure is that it isnt due to the Carbon Footprint of those SUV driving Martians.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Mars, like Basingstoke, has very little atmosphere, so CO2-driven global warming is going to be very low-level compared to Earth.
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Aparently so: The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes that are occurring on the same time scales as Earth's most recent climate shifts ... the south polar residual cap is not permanent. It is disappearing, a little bit more each southern spring and summer season. At the present rate, a layer 3 m thick can be completely eroded away in a few tens of martian years[^] What? Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth? I wonder what could be the cause? Couldnt be due to that big hot thing in the solar system called the sun could it? What is for sure is that it isnt due to the Carbon Footprint of those SUV driving Martians.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
How does it logically follow that merely because you have a perfectly natural warming cycle, that you cannot also simultaneously have one caused by man-made changes to the environment? IOW, how does warming on Mars reduce our need to be concerned with what we are doing to the atmosphere on Earth?
Modern liberalism has never achieved anything other than giving Secularists something to feel morally superior about
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Once again, to qoute the link: 'images of the south polar cap taken in 1999 were compared with images of the same locations taken in 2001, and it was discovered that pits had enlarged, mesas had shrunk' No theory there Karl, just observation of ice cap shrinkage between 1999 and 2001. Earth too has undergone Arcitc ice cap shrinkage over the same time period. That too is a fact. That the sun is the cause is a theory. It could be due to giant reflector that we didnt know was there that was in the way of the sun from both planets and has now gone. That would be a second, though somewhat ridiculous theory. A third and even more outlandish theory would be that someone bult a space ship, flew to Mars, and fired up a whole load of oxy-acetylane torchess just to make Mars hotter. However, if we limit ourselves to the facts: two planets in the solar system are showing signs of increasing temperatures at the same time, and that at that time solar activity is at its highest for some many years (scientists differ on whether it is 1000 years or 8000 years). Draw from those three facts Karl what conclusion you will.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
A fourth theory is that both events are unrelated and each one is the consequence of different factors.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread Fold with us! ¤ flickr
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How does it logically follow that merely because you have a perfectly natural warming cycle, that you cannot also simultaneously have one caused by man-made changes to the environment? IOW, how does warming on Mars reduce our need to be concerned with what we are doing to the atmosphere on Earth?
Modern liberalism has never achieved anything other than giving Secularists something to feel morally superior about
Because the effect of CO2 is minimised, and if you consider the Vostok ice core data that has shown a stable temperature for 10000 years, with massively rising CO2, and even negated totally. CO2 is only 15% responsible for grenhouse gas effect. If greenhopuse gas effect is responsible for only 25% of Earths warming (in light of other planets warming too), then a 20% reduction in CO2 (as recomended by Europe) will have 0.0075% effect on the temperature, i.e. 0.006 `C drop. And for that 0.006 `C drop we are going to ruin our economy, and loose agricultural benefits?
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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A fourth theory is that both events are unrelated and each one is the consequence of different factors.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread Fold with us! ¤ flickr
K(arl) wrote:
A fourth theory is that both events are unrelated and each one is the consequence of different factors.
I would like you to expand on that theory Karl, it should be ammusing.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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I really dont think a couple of Range Rovers could have that effect! ;)
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Maybe there are Sport Editions?
Cheers, Sebastian -- Contra vim mortem non est medicamen in hortem.
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K(arl) wrote:
A fourth theory is that both events are unrelated and each one is the consequence of different factors.
I would like you to expand on that theory Karl, it should be ammusing.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
If Mars and Earth were in the same orbit, on opposite sides of the sun, were of the same size and had the same kind of athmosphere, then your theory might have been acceptable. Mars, however, is smaller, has almost no athmosphere and travels at a different speed (being farther away from the sun). Then, again, we are the "blue planet" and mars is the "red planet". Mars has no oceans that we are aware of, no ozone layer and also probably is of a different internal makeup (no "magnetic shield" like the one generated by Earth's core). Additionally, we have not been able to observe Mars in such detail until very recently (in universal terms). And the proof that CO2 in the athmosphere causes global warming has been done theoretically, not practically. So, they CALCULATED it. The did NOT just measure temperature over a few years.
Cheers, Sebastian -- Contra vim mortem non est medicamen in hortem.
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Because the effect of CO2 is minimised, and if you consider the Vostok ice core data that has shown a stable temperature for 10000 years, with massively rising CO2, and even negated totally. CO2 is only 15% responsible for grenhouse gas effect. If greenhopuse gas effect is responsible for only 25% of Earths warming (in light of other planets warming too), then a 20% reduction in CO2 (as recomended by Europe) will have 0.0075% effect on the temperature, i.e. 0.006 `C drop. And for that 0.006 `C drop we are going to ruin our economy, and loose agricultural benefits?
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
OK, I will only be attacking the obvious: a) 0.0075 is obviously made-up. If I calculate 15% of 25%, I get a 3.75% influence on global warming (ignoring the fact that the global warming and the greenhouse effect are NOT in that kind of relationship). If I take a fifth of that (20% of 3.75%) I also get WAY more than a 0.0075% effect on global warming for a 20% reduction. I am totally ignoring the fact that you fail to name the other factors in global warming, and what their influences on the outcome are. b) You fail to give sources for your argumentation. Please tell me the source of your information that seems to contain factual information what the temperature will be in the future. Your knowledge of 0.006°C implies that you have access to that kind of information. c) You fail to notice that Earth's climate is VERY fragile. A 0.006°C increase in temperature (though made-up) might actually be the cause for our extinction.
Cheers, Sebastian -- Contra vim mortem non est medicamen in hortem.
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Aparently so: The fact that it is changing suggests that Mars may have major, global climate changes that are occurring on the same time scales as Earth's most recent climate shifts ... the south polar residual cap is not permanent. It is disappearing, a little bit more each southern spring and summer season. At the present rate, a layer 3 m thick can be completely eroded away in a few tens of martian years[^] What? Mars is heating up at the same time as the Earth? I wonder what could be the cause? Couldnt be due to that big hot thing in the solar system called the sun could it? What is for sure is that it isnt due to the Carbon Footprint of those SUV driving Martians.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/10/global-warming-on-mars/#more-192[^] "The shrinkage of the Martian South Polar Cap is almost certainly a regional climate change, and is not any indication of global warming trends in the Martian atmosphere...the south polar climate is unstable due to the peculiar topography near the pole, and the current configuration is on the instability border; we therefore expect to see rapid changes in ice cover as the regional climate transits between the unstable states. "
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Because the effect of CO2 is minimised, and if you consider the Vostok ice core data that has shown a stable temperature for 10000 years, with massively rising CO2, and even negated totally. CO2 is only 15% responsible for grenhouse gas effect. If greenhopuse gas effect is responsible for only 25% of Earths warming (in light of other planets warming too), then a 20% reduction in CO2 (as recomended by Europe) will have 0.0075% effect on the temperature, i.e. 0.006 `C drop. And for that 0.006 `C drop we are going to ruin our economy, and loose agricultural benefits?
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
The degree to which you take this obsession is alarming. You would have to be blind to think we have no impact. Sure, there's a lot of hype. Sure, its theory. Better safe than sorry. Having lived in LA in the 70s I remember. I remember the blanket of smog. I remember having Red Alert days where we were told to stay indoors, but my father, being the workaholic he is, insisted on working anyway (construction) and so I remember not being able to BREATHE. I tell you what. Forget warming and climate. I'll be concerned over my own lungs. Keep religiously trying to justify SUV consumerism. I'll be happy with the Clean Air Acts one by one in the hopes that I'll be able to continue to breathe without Oxygen support. Get over it. Its boring now. Ok, your religion is anti-climactic change. Nice one. Do you meet on a given day of the week?
This statement was never false.
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If Mars and Earth were in the same orbit, on opposite sides of the sun, were of the same size and had the same kind of athmosphere, then your theory might have been acceptable. Mars, however, is smaller, has almost no athmosphere and travels at a different speed (being farther away from the sun). Then, again, we are the "blue planet" and mars is the "red planet". Mars has no oceans that we are aware of, no ozone layer and also probably is of a different internal makeup (no "magnetic shield" like the one generated by Earth's core). Additionally, we have not been able to observe Mars in such detail until very recently (in universal terms). And the proof that CO2 in the athmosphere causes global warming has been done theoretically, not practically. So, they CALCULATED it. The did NOT just measure temperature over a few years.
Cheers, Sebastian -- Contra vim mortem non est medicamen in hortem.
The use of Mars as a control does have problems if one was looking to isolate man made CO2 and prove or disprove its effect. Imagine though that man kind hadnt created excess CO2 in the last 100 years, and that we saw shrinkage of ice caps on Earth? We might be scratching our heads trying to find a cause. Imagine then that the same behaviour was observed on another planet in the solar system at the same time. That would automatically lead us to look for a cause outside of the Earth, at some force that could affect both planets simultaneously. So I think in terms of pointing the finger at the sun, Mars _is_ a usefull indicator.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception