I just love it
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The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
my religious claim is that the Great God of Beer and Wine has displaced both Allah and the Christian God.
Al-Jathiya:22-26 And Allah created the heavens and the earth with truth and that every soul may be rewarded for what it has earned and they shall not be wronged. Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilah (god), and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful? And they say: There is nothing but our life in this world; we live and die and nothing destroys us but time, and they have no knowledge of that; they only conjecture. And when Our clear revelations are recited unto them their only argument is that they say: Bring our fathers (back) if you are truthful. Say: Allah gives you life, then He makes you die, then He will gather you to the day of resurrection wherein is no doubt, but most people do not know.Finding Allah Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr
What does quoting the Koran prove?
CleAkO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that." - Tommy Boy
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School) -
I thought it was "You gotta have weed weed weed!" :~ :-D
-- Verletzen zerfetzen zersetzen zerstören Doch es darf nicht mir gehören Ich muss zerstören
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CleAkO wrote:
There is thousands of years of evidence that anything religious is fact based and not faith based?
Christianity is a layer of faith laid upon certain historical facts. It is separate and not dependent on science. That faith is clearly recognized by the religious as lacking empirical evidence. By contrast, atheism asserts that it's theology is based purely on fact (when, in actuality, depends on an equal amount of faith), making it difficult for the atheist to distinguish between the two. Religion is faith-based, but that faith is dependent on certain facts.
Red Stateler wrote:
Christianity is a layer of faith laid upon certain historical facts. It is separate and not dependent on science. That faith is clearly recognized by the religious as lacking empirical evidence. By contrast, atheism asserts that it's theology is based purely on fact (when, in actuality, depends on an equal amount of faith), making it difficult for the atheist to distinguish between the two. Religion is faith-based, but that faith is dependent on certain facts.
Christianity is soley based on someone else's re-telling of something that they claim they saw. The same goes for every other reglious text as far as I know. Just because Bob said he saw the Beer god appear and turn on the spigot does not mean that I will worship said god.
CleAkO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that." - Tommy Boy
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School) -
Red Stateler wrote:
Christianity is a layer of faith laid upon certain historical facts. It is separate and not dependent on science. That faith is clearly recognized by the religious as lacking empirical evidence. By contrast, atheism asserts that it's theology is based purely on fact (when, in actuality, depends on an equal amount of faith), making it difficult for the atheist to distinguish between the two. Religion is faith-based, but that faith is dependent on certain facts.
Christianity is soley based on someone else's re-telling of something that they claim they saw. The same goes for every other reglious text as far as I know. Just because Bob said he saw the Beer god appear and turn on the spigot does not mean that I will worship said god.
CleAkO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that." - Tommy Boy
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School)CleAkO wrote:
Christianity is soley based on someone else's re-telling of something that they claim they saw. The same goes for every other reglious text as far as I know. Just because Bob said he saw the Beer god appear and turn on the spigot does not mean that I will worship said god.
So is the execution of Marie Antoinette and yet I'm sure you believe that. That's basically how all history works. You have to be decidedly solipsistic if you hold that general attitude,
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What? Faith is out of style these days? :rolleyes:
-- Verletzen zerfetzen zersetzen zerstören Doch es darf nicht mir gehören Ich muss zerstören
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Faith is out of style these days?
Strawman!!!!!!!
Modern liberalism has never achieved anything other than giving Secularists something to feel morally superior about
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CleAkO wrote:
Christianity is soley based on someone else's re-telling of something that they claim they saw. The same goes for every other reglious text as far as I know. Just because Bob said he saw the Beer god appear and turn on the spigot does not mean that I will worship said god.
So is the execution of Marie Antoinette and yet I'm sure you believe that. That's basically how all history works. You have to be decidedly solipsistic if you hold that general attitude,
Red Stateler wrote:
So is the execution of Marie Antoinette and yet I'm sure you believe that. That's basically how all history works. You have to be decidedly solipsistic if you hold that general attitude,
Wow, you forced me to lookup a word. I would say that there is a huge difference here, it is one thing to believe that someone existed, that they did certain things, that they died a certain way, but there arent religions based on all of those things. Religion is the deciding factor here.
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that." - Tommy Boy
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School) -
Oh well then, my religious claim is that the Great God of Beer and Wine has displaced both Allah and the Christian God. There we go. All signed, sealed and delivered. Time to apply for tax-exemption on religious grounds. Can't wait for some tax-free binges. And I don't even need proof! Fantastic or what?
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
Great God of Beer and Wine
Hey that might go well with flying spagetti monster! yes I am hungry
"Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. " - Morpheus
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Red Stateler wrote:
So is the execution of Marie Antoinette and yet I'm sure you believe that. That's basically how all history works. You have to be decidedly solipsistic if you hold that general attitude,
Wow, you forced me to lookup a word. I would say that there is a huge difference here, it is one thing to believe that someone existed, that they did certain things, that they died a certain way, but there arent religions based on all of those things. Religion is the deciding factor here.
CleaKO
"I think you'll be okay here, they have a thin candy shell. 'Surprised you didn't know that." - Tommy Boy
"Fill it up again! Fill it up again! Once it hits your lips, it's so good!" - Frank the Tank (Old School)CleaKO wrote:
Wow, you forced me to lookup a word. I would say that there is a huge difference here, it is one thing to believe that someone existed, that they did certain things, that they died a certain way, but there arent religions based on all of those things. Religion is the deciding factor here.
Religion is only the deciding factor because it's at odds with an atheist's belief. Eyewitness accounts are universally accepted when it comes to history. We know Marie Antoinette was beheaded because there were eyewitness accounts. We know Julius Caesar was assassinated thanks to Plutarch. We know of Socrates because of Plato. And yet, for obvious reasons, the atheist who accepts all these things suddenly decides that Jesus never existed and didn't perform miracles because there's simply not enough evidence. Never mind that in the case of Caesar and Socrates we have only one recording witness each and in the case of Jesus we have four. After all, it's more important to suspend use of logic when your dogma is at stake.
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Oh well then, my religious claim is that the Great God of Beer and Wine has displaced both Allah and the Christian God. There we go. All signed, sealed and delivered. Time to apply for tax-exemption on religious grounds. Can't wait for some tax-free binges. And I don't even need proof! Fantastic or what?
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
wait for some tax-free binges. And I don't even need proof! Fantastic or what?
Do you mind dropping me an email when the gods are ready? Can I join the religious party? :-D
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero ப்ரம்மா
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This is bad, Hannibal Wjousts, real bad!
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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digital man wrote:
Oh dear: I accidently just gave you 5: sorry, I meant to give you a 1. Never mind: I'm sure we'll both get over it.
Don't worry. The left-wing circle jerk that is the Soapbox will guarantee me plenty of ones for my dissent. After all, you leftists do have a philosophy with all the sophistication the middle ages could provide. I'm surprides you're not endorsing my house arrest!
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Oh well then, my religious claim is that the Great God of Beer and Wine has displaced both Allah and the Christian God. There we go. All signed, sealed and delivered. Time to apply for tax-exemption on religious grounds. Can't wait for some tax-free binges. And I don't even need proof! Fantastic or what?
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
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Regardless, the left-wing circle jerk that is the Soapbox will guarantee me plenty of ones for my dissent.
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when religious people start waving their hands and shout "you have no proof!" I'm sure Cameron will produce much better fiction than the bible. From an entertainment point of view of course. :)
-- Verletzen zerfetzen zersetzen zerstören Doch es darf nicht mir gehören Ich muss zerstören
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
I'm sure Cameron will produce much better fiction than the bible. From an entertainment point of view of course.
Really? Having suffered through both "Titanic" and the quasi-documentary that followed it, i'm now convinced that Cameron can't tell a good story even when he's handed one. Unless he includes lots of flashbacks involving Jessica Alba as an unreformed Mary Magdalene... Grand visuals, $0.02 story. It's like, his trademark or something.
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
when religious people start waving their hands and shout "you have no proof!"
We've spent hundreds of years trading sketchy "artifacts", ranging from the merely improbable to the down-right morbid. If you're gonna cling to such "proof", then you should expect to get bitten...
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
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The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
Not at all, that's the religious position! Just add faith, no assembly required!
When you come up with thousands of years of history with supporting archeological evidence and direct testimony of numerous witnesses, then we can talk. Until then, you can continue to ignore scientific evidence that does your ideology a disservice (thereby doing science a disservice).
Red Stateler wrote:
When you come up with thousands of years of history with supporting archeological evidence and direct testimony of numerous witnesses, then we can talk. Until then, you can continue to ignore scientific evidence that does your ideology a disservice (thereby doing science a disservice).
Ah, see - this always comes up. So, religions are accepted based on elapsed time and archaeological evidence? Well, that't dangerous for you because if "religious correctness" is based on length of existence and archaeological evidence then the Egyptians and Greeks beat you (Christianity) out. In fact, alot of religions do - like Buddhism, for example.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
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CleaKO wrote:
Wow, you forced me to lookup a word. I would say that there is a huge difference here, it is one thing to believe that someone existed, that they did certain things, that they died a certain way, but there arent religions based on all of those things. Religion is the deciding factor here.
Religion is only the deciding factor because it's at odds with an atheist's belief. Eyewitness accounts are universally accepted when it comes to history. We know Marie Antoinette was beheaded because there were eyewitness accounts. We know Julius Caesar was assassinated thanks to Plutarch. We know of Socrates because of Plato. And yet, for obvious reasons, the atheist who accepts all these things suddenly decides that Jesus never existed and didn't perform miracles because there's simply not enough evidence. Never mind that in the case of Caesar and Socrates we have only one recording witness each and in the case of Jesus we have four. After all, it's more important to suspend use of logic when your dogma is at stake.
Red Stateler wrote:
and in the case of Jesus we have four
Ah yes, but 4 who cannot be identified and whose surviving texts are full of internal inconsistencies and falsehoods. What "evidence" there is for him wouldn't even be accepted in a court of law. And knowing the court system, well... heh.
Red Stateler wrote:
After all, it's more important to suspend use of logic when your dogma is at stake.
You hit it on the head there.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
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The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
my religious claim is that the Great God of Beer and Wine has displaced both Allah and the Christian God.
Al-Jathiya:22-26 And Allah created the heavens and the earth with truth and that every soul may be rewarded for what it has earned and they shall not be wronged. Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilah (god), and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful? And they say: There is nothing but our life in this world; we live and die and nothing destroys us but time, and they have no knowledge of that; they only conjecture. And when Our clear revelations are recited unto them their only argument is that they say: Bring our fathers (back) if you are truthful. Say: Allah gives you life, then He makes you die, then He will gather you to the day of resurrection wherein is no doubt, but most people do not know.Finding Allah Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr
Blah, blah blah. My beer god reigns supreme. Prove otherwise. And quotes aren't proof, they're quotes. So my Beer God says: "Beer God gives Allah life, then He makes him die, then He will gather him to the day of beersurrection wherein is no doubt, but most people do not know." See, I can play too.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
I'm sure Cameron will produce much better fiction than the bible. From an entertainment point of view of course.
Really? Having suffered through both "Titanic" and the quasi-documentary that followed it, i'm now convinced that Cameron can't tell a good story even when he's handed one. Unless he includes lots of flashbacks involving Jessica Alba as an unreformed Mary Magdalene... Grand visuals, $0.02 story. It's like, his trademark or something.
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
when religious people start waving their hands and shout "you have no proof!"
We've spent hundreds of years trading sketchy "artifacts", ranging from the merely improbable to the down-right morbid. If you're gonna cling to such "proof", then you should expect to get bitten...
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
Really? Having suffered through both "Titanic" and the quasi-documentary that followed it, i'm now convinced that Cameron can't tell a good story even when he's handed one. Unless he includes lots of flashbacks involving Jessica Alba as an unreformed Mary Magdalene...Grand visuals, $0.02 story. It's like, his trademark or something.
Still beats the bible. Well, maybe not the book of revelation. That's a good source for movies and music. But the rest? <marge-simpson-voice>Hrm</marge-simpson-voice>
Shog9 wrote:
If you're gonna cling to such "proof", then you should expect to get bitten...
Hey now.. nowhere did I claim I supported Cameron's claim. I'm pretty much indifferent about it this whole thing. I was making a weak reference to some posts in another thread. One thing is for sure though; with all this commotion going on, I will see the movie. ;) (Oh and Titanic wasn't all that bad. It had boats and chicks!)
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digital man wrote:
star trek
At least much which is in Star Trek is plausible. And very entertaining! :)
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Blah, blah blah. My beer god reigns supreme. Prove otherwise. And quotes aren't proof, they're quotes. So my Beer God says: "Beer God gives Allah life, then He makes him die, then He will gather him to the day of beersurrection wherein is no doubt, but most people do not know." See, I can play too.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
So my Beer God says:
I wouldn't be surprised if after drinking your alcoholic beverage you'd start believing it created the heavens and the earth...
Finding Allah Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr