Another irrefutable argument for creation

Matthew Faithfull

No precise time line can be established from the text because the genealogies don't necessarily include every generation. The term usually translated 'son of' is equivalent to 'descendent of' or perhaps even 'of the tribe of'. On the other hand if you insert 1000 years for each step where a direct father son relationship can't be established you're still stretching to get more than a few tens of thousands of years. This fits easily enough with the unadjusted earth age data from ice and sediment cores of around about 25000 years. You did ask and I fully expect to get flamed and deluged with links to learned, bearded demi gods insisting on figures of billions of years. As you might guess I have no interest in such Iatolahs. :)

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Chris Kaiser

Then please do explain petrified wood and its process of becoming opals.

This statement was never false.

lost in transition

Okay, first of all one of the biggest problems in Christianity is division, and I am not trying to cause this. We are saying the same thing, you just haven't seen that yet.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

That you could get cancer from demon actions against you.

Was not Job afflicted by the Devil?

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

He bound them. He conquered.

Yes, completely agree but when does a person began to inherit that victory? I am not trying to say that demons have power over us. What I am saying is that, if we give room or opportunity to demons they will exercise what power they have.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

So, quote me some scripture.

What would you like? I shall research it to night when I get home and post back.

God Bless, Jason

Paul Conrad wrote:

Chuck Norris keeps the hamsters going whenever Chris is gone on vacation. Just stares them down and they keep the servers going

Matthew Faithfull

Scripture does not spell out the powers or the limitations of Demons beyond making clear that the devil himself is chained, i.e. limited, but not impotent. In fact it specifically forbids investigation into this area of knowledge under the ban on divination. It is neither wise nor safe. How do you support your claim that the evil one has no purchase on the minds of the unsaved since the resurrection? This is clearly not so, possession still occurs today and the Devil is far from impotent in the world and the minds of men. The teachings of Jesus make it crystal clear that not all will be saved, many will take the broad road to destruction. If evil had no hold on anyone born in the last 2000 years we would already be living in paradise.

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

lintybits

Actually, 25000 yrs was a lot longer than I was expecting. I was just wondering where genesis fit in with the creation myths of other cultures. If it can be traced back to the last ice age then it lines up pretty well. I've always been of the opinion that different religions are just interpretations of the same story with different characters, and all the my god can kick your god's ass is meaningless since it all stems from the same thing. Now I'm going back to the lounge before I'm branded a leftist athiest.

Reagan Conservative

Now THAT'S FUNNY!!! ROFLMAO :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Very imaginitive!!

John P.

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

Yes, while I believe in a Creator God, this is pretty stupid. C'mon, at least they should argue intelligently. Such ignorance!

Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay

Lost User

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

In fact it specifically forbids investigation into this area of knowledge under the ban on divination. It is neither wise nor safe.

But it is rather convenient. ;P

Matthew Faithfull

I have no knowledge of the process of making opals which I'm sure is fascinating. It must be more interesting than the process of making diamonds which takes about 20 minutes and is surprisingly unspectacular. I am aware of Apparently 3 million year old petrified whigs, 9 million year old modern human skeletons dug up in Yugoslavia, infinitely compressible ice which apparently doesn't get any denser when its compressed :omg: and a really neat process of plate tectonics which repaves all the ocean floors every 25000 years or so which of course proves beyond doubt that they must be much older than that or how could they have been repaved so many times! I'm aware of sedimentary rock 3000 feet above sea level a long way from the edge of the Australian plate which is really hard to explain and therefore must be really really really old but doesn't even cause a ripple in the universal flood theory, pun intended, and about the Grand Canyon and the inland sea which formed it by flowing away. I don't have a problem with where the sea came from and why the water didn't flow away before but I guess others do if they think about it at all. All in all I think there are quite enough wooden witches floating around already and I really have no need to explain how to turn wood in opal or lead into gold, both of which are I'm sure entirely possible as neither have any bearing on the topic at hand. ;)

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

lost in transition

string name = "" wrote:

I was refering to christians in general.

I can not answer for Christians in general.

string name = "" wrote:

I say it would discount the genesis story because the only life it mentions that God created was humans/animals.

Also, the context is about Earth. What good would it be for us to have a Bible that was for some other creation on another planet? I will say this, I am not limiting the Power of God by saying there is not life on other planets. My stance is whether or not there is life on other planets is irrelevant to me, I live on Earth.

God Bless, Jason

Paul Conrad wrote:

Chuck Norris keeps the hamsters going whenever Chris is gone on vacation. Just stares them down and they keep the servers going

Matthew Faithfull

I think the common idea you expressed is remarkably close to the truth. All religions are derivative, either from old testament Judaism or from the occult or are esentially based on the ideas of one guy, now dead, who would have been influenced by and may have been reacting against earlier religious ideas from the same sources. All the anamist religions, ancestor worship religions and idol worship religions from shamanism to shintoism are derivative of spiritism or 'the worship of demons' as it should properly be called. Hinduism also falls into this category although it is diluted with much philosophical baggage. Seikism is much similar although from what I have heard it is mixed up with a 'religion of works' concept like Islam or hard core Roman Catholisism e.g. Opus Dei. These religions spring essentially from a misunderstanding of Christianity. There are plenty of sects and splinter groups and '3rd ways' but essentailly people either worship demons, usually unwittingly, ensalve themselves to sterile religious law (The decayed state of Old Testament Judaism by the time of Christ for example), worship themselves, money or a random celebrity which covers most of the modern western world or worship the one true God who created the universe and everything in it. I've no doubt somebody will point up some exceptions, worshipers of computational chemistry or something but you see my point.

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Matthew Faithfull

Please clarify what you think is convenient and to whom?

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Lost User

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Please clarify what you think is convenient and to whom?

Seems convenient that those who wrote the scriptures can forbid investigation into their veracity. No?

Red Stateler

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

but you see my point

Really? :~

Matthew Faithfull

Not at all. If you would go to Demons to confirm the voracity of the scriptures then you would be a fool. The scriptures confirm their own voracity as only the word of God can. Read them and pray that the Spirit of God will give you the wisdom to understand what you're reading and you may see for yourself.

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Lost User

Right.... :rolleyes:

Matthew Faithfull

OK, let me bullet point it for you. All religions can be approximately categorised as one of the following. 1. Devil worship, usually indirect and or unwitting. 2. Legalistic religious practice in an attempt to 'qualify' or attain 'nirvana' 3. Usually unthoughtout idol worship of the self or materialism or equivalent 4. Christianity As categories 1 to 3 all lead down that same braod road to destruction the old saw that 'all religions are the same' is only one step away from being true. It just needs the addition of 'except Chrisitanity'. Clear enough ?

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Chris Kaiser

you sure can use quite a pile of words to say nothing I say the bible is a parable. Allegorical even. A collection written by man. But a good collection. Assembled largely while in captivity in Babylon. 6000 years, heh. Not logical.

This statement was never false.

Matthew Faithfull

The Bible certainly contains parables but it is much more that. It also contains, history, poetry, song, prophesy and letters. It was written down both before and after the captiviy in Babylon and the book of Daniel possibly during that time. The first five books date back to Moses at least, the historical books are essentially in order with some overlap and the authorship and or dating of most of the others is clear with a few notable exceptions like Job which you could possibly justify as allegorical as it is hard to pin to a particular period or place. Some people believe it is very old and may also date back to the original phase of the text, probably written down by Aaron at Moses direction.

Chris-Kaiser wrote:

6000 years

Where do you get that from?

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Chris Kaiser

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

We are saying the same thing, you just haven't seen that yet.

No we are not. I am saying that demons have no influence since pentacost. None. You are saying they still do. If you let them, or are not saved. If they are bound then they can't. You can't be bound and free at the same time.

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

Was not Job afflicted by the Devil?

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

Yes, completely agree but when does a person began to inherit that victory?

Was Job not Old Testament? I'm talking after Pentecost. Was not Job referenced by Jesus during his ministry? What do you mean? If they are conquered then they are conquered. Or are you suggesting they are tools to afflict the unbelievers? Is this the mercy of the son as is referenced in the father?

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

What I am saying is that, if we give room or opportunity to demons they will exercise what power they have.

And I am saying that after Pentecost they have no power. If they still have power then they were NOT defeated.

jason_lakewhitney wrote:

What would you like? I shall research it to night when I get home and post back.

Scripture that validates your view. Scripture that states by Jesus that you can be afflicted by Demons after Pentecost.

This statement was never false.