Hans Ruesch, 1913 - 2007
-
Fred_Smith wrote:
Oh for goodnes sakes - people can die prematurely too, that doesn't gove anyone the rght to murder them does it?
Of course not...Because they're "people". Equating people to animals on a moral level is...odd.
Fred_Smith wrote:
But you are still doing it, despite what I just said in my previous post: trying to confuse my morality with my science. I know the two are separate and if all you can do is try to confuse the two in order to make your point then all I can conclude is that you know you can't win the scientific argument and so have to resort to such diversionary tactics.
Yes, well...I can't help but postulate that since both your views are rather extreme and both cross the same boundary that your "morality" is indeed confused with your "science". My point isn't based on my confusion of the two, but rather your confusion of the two is my point.
Fred_Smith wrote:
Ther IS a good scientific case aginst vivisection. I simply can't post a whole treatise here about it (though I have made a few points elsewhere here)- it takes a book to do it justice, and such a book has been written. I urge you, again, to read it.
Two questions: 1. From which biological science is your PhD? 2. Can you point me to some papers you've published in respected journals on the fruitlessness of vivisection? I want to expand my horizons!
They're beings. But we humans are so arrogant we think we're the only ones. Good thing you don't believe in aliens. If they were above us they might not consider us as people and take to some vivisection in their saucers of discovery.
This statement was never false.
-
Vivisection is cutting open an animal and studying its insides while it is awake. That is torture. Put all the spin you want on it. But it sounds more like human worship. We are one aspect of life, not the only one. Why don't you volunteer since you're so worried about your fellow man. I'm sure that a human subject would offer much more than an animal in terms of relevance to the subject.
This statement was never false.
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
We are one aspect of life, not the only one.
True. When you cut a carrot, you slices a living being in pieces. Worse, the situation of bonsais. And somebody in this thread already mention the fate of crustaceans boiled alive. And what about all the insects we destroyed by throwing pesticides on crop? They probably die in a horrible way. Hey, and all the animals which die on our roads, tear apart by cars? Don't you drive anymore?
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
Why don't you volunteer since you're so worried about your fellow man
I already volunteered for a medical study for skin treatments.
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
I'm sure that a human subject would offer much more than an animal in terms of relevance to the subject.
And it happens with volunteer people.
Jouir et faire jouir sans faire de mal ni à toi ni à personne, voilà je crois le fondement de toute morale Fold with us! ¤ flickr
-
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
We are one aspect of life, not the only one.
True. When you cut a carrot, you slices a living being in pieces. Worse, the situation of bonsais. And somebody in this thread already mention the fate of crustaceans boiled alive. And what about all the insects we destroyed by throwing pesticides on crop? They probably die in a horrible way. Hey, and all the animals which die on our roads, tear apart by cars? Don't you drive anymore?
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
Why don't you volunteer since you're so worried about your fellow man
I already volunteered for a medical study for skin treatments.
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
I'm sure that a human subject would offer much more than an animal in terms of relevance to the subject.
And it happens with volunteer people.
Jouir et faire jouir sans faire de mal ni à toi ni à personne, voilà je crois le fondement de toute morale Fold with us! ¤ flickr
Hey good for you. I don't use pesticides. Accidents are different than deliberate acts.. but continue trying to justify the act of vivisection. Go for it. You won't convince me. I don't worship humans. But let's take your carrot example... yes there are studies that when you think of harming it, it registers on a meter. But not when you think happy thoughts and actually cut the carrot. What I am leading to is there is a mind in these animals suffering from vivisection. A carrot, as far as I know, is mindless. But whatever. You can continue to justify the practice, and I'll continue to abhor it. And I'm talking about vivisection in particular. I'm not talking about general experimentation. And yes, I eat meat. But meat that is slaughtered humanely and not in a factory lineup. I'm really not that extreme, yet I still find vivisection appalling.
This statement was never false.