A cull
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Shog9 wrote:
We have rights according to our abilities and resources.
what a load of blithering nonsense. "I can - therefore I have a right to". ???
Shog9 wrote:
you should be prepared to accept responsibility for the outcome of your choices
Yes - and one consequence of farming cattle is Bovine TB. And how typically moronic to think the answer to that is "oh well, we'll just wipe out the badgers then!" Because we can, therefore we have a right to, I suppose, huh? Good grief.
Fred_Smith wrote:
what a load of blithering nonsense: "I can - therefore I have a right to". ???
You may not like it, but frankly that doesn't change it. If you'd prefer me to state that another way, then how about this: "I have the right to do whatever i wish with what society allows that i own, to the extent that my actions are allowed by the society of which i am a part." You may not like what i do, but for the most part what you think doesn't matter. I could declare that all of Great Britain is mine and therefore from this day out no-one residing in its borders will be allowed to eat with their left hands... and no matter how much i believed it, it would mean nothing (unless i actually went to GB, in which case it might result in some trouble for me...) Calling it nonsense just makes you sound like the proverbial fox who couldn't reach the grapes.
Fred_Smith wrote:
Yes - and one consequence of farming cattle is Bovine TB.
Sure. One consequence of living in northern climates is cold winters. So? You gonna do something about it, or sit and wring your hands 'till you freeze to death...?
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Shog9 wrote:
It is, therefore, our modernity and prosperity that even allow such a question as this. To say, "you've got yourself into this", and then propose that such questions would not arise in a more developed society seems, to me, confusion on your part - the two are part of each other, a necessary result of a society removed from the basic needs of survival. Without that, the question is senseless...
Shog, it is absolutely incredible that you posted this. Why? Because aside from myself and a few others, it's a point I have rarely ever seen exposited. So very many of the right/wrong questions we ask in our civilization are possible only because we've built the luxury to allow it. In a world where we lived closer to the land, such questions would be treated with disdain, even malice.
Shog9 wrote:
Consider for a moment the implicit question with which you started this thread: is it appropriate to destroy one animal in hope of preserving another?
I contend it is not our place to answer that question - in either direction. We simply are not gods and power over life and death is not ours. What we CAN and SHOULD do is what is necessary to our survival and maintenance of our way of life. That is a merely practical recognition that we ARE animals and as such we are not and can never be the "more developed society" so callously proposed by those who lament "if only humans were better than they are..." We're not. We won't be, not for a very long time at the very least, if ever. And attempting to build a world on the way people SHOULD be instead of how they ARE is a recipe for disaster.
Shog9 wrote:
Near as i can tell, we've done exactly that when it comes to our eating habits... in fact, i suspect this behavior, this willingness to bend the natural order of things to our own desires, is at the root of your complaint.
So I address this last, because it required the above to make sense. All animals bend the natural order of things to their needs, to one degree or another. This renders the term "natural order of things" a meaningless phrase, exposing it for the hypocrisy it is: it treats animal life as though it were a disease. Beaver have been known to cut down whole forests, for example, to build dams. Yet we'd never deride the beaver for being a pox on the face of an otherwise pristine world - we reserve that derisi
Patrick Sears wrote:
I contend it is not our place to answer that question - in either direction.
It's a question too general to be answered. ;) But at some point, it becomes real and specific to a given scenario, and someone needs to make the call. To me, yelling "all life is precious - i will not decide" is just punting; you're still deciding, just not thinking.
Patrick Sears wrote:
The subversion of the world to human needs isn't wrong; it is merely the degree to which we do it that presents danger.
I can agree with that. :)
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Fred_Smith wrote:
what a load of blithering nonsense: "I can - therefore I have a right to". ???
You may not like it, but frankly that doesn't change it. If you'd prefer me to state that another way, then how about this: "I have the right to do whatever i wish with what society allows that i own, to the extent that my actions are allowed by the society of which i am a part." You may not like what i do, but for the most part what you think doesn't matter. I could declare that all of Great Britain is mine and therefore from this day out no-one residing in its borders will be allowed to eat with their left hands... and no matter how much i believed it, it would mean nothing (unless i actually went to GB, in which case it might result in some trouble for me...) Calling it nonsense just makes you sound like the proverbial fox who couldn't reach the grapes.
Fred_Smith wrote:
Yes - and one consequence of farming cattle is Bovine TB.
Sure. One consequence of living in northern climates is cold winters. So? You gonna do something about it, or sit and wring your hands 'till you freeze to death...?
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
Well I'm sorry but a statement like "We have rights according to our abilities and resources" is just asking for it! If I have the right and ability to beat the crap out of 73Zeppelin, that wouldn't give me the right to do it, would it? Hey... maybe you've got a point! :-D I live in the northern hemisphere, and I don't freeze to death, and I don't ask any animal to die for me in order for me to survive here either (as much as I possibly can in this society.)
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Well I'm sorry but a statement like "We have rights according to our abilities and resources" is just asking for it! If I have the right and ability to beat the crap out of 73Zeppelin, that wouldn't give me the right to do it, would it? Hey... maybe you've got a point! :-D I live in the northern hemisphere, and I don't freeze to death, and I don't ask any animal to die for me in order for me to survive here either (as much as I possibly can in this society.)
Fred_Smith wrote:
Hey... maybe you've got a point!
That you have a right to do what you have a right to do? Shucks, i'd hope so! :rolleyes: I guess what i'm trying to say is, there's no point in discussion if it's gonna devolve into "you have no right to do that" / "i do so!". It comes down to the choices we make and what happens as a result of them - don't like the results, make better choices. Blaming people for the results of choices they never had the opportunity to make isn't productive. And neither is failing to accept the consequences of choices you did make. "Gosh, Shog - that's about the dumbest, most blatantly obvious statement i've ever read, and i read the local paper!" Yeah, sure, whatever. Sit in on one of the abortion threads here sometime... ;)
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Sorry I'm late - I was just eating a big fucking steak. Tomorrow I'm cooking an entire chicken, but I'll only eat a little bit of it and throw the rest out. Then I think I'll order something cute and fuzzy from the charcuterie at the market - probably rabbit. I think increasing the demand for meat is important. Oh, what's this thread about? All that talk about meat made me miss the point of this thread. Ah, but who cares, it's just Fred_Smith. Oh I see - something about a badger cull. Their tails make damned fine shaving brushes. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll keep an eye out for the price drop and profit by buying a couple.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I was just eating a big f****ing steak.
I didnt know bulls penis was a Dijon delicacy?
73Zeppelin wrote:
Then I think I'll order something cute and fuzzy from the charcuterie at the market
A mouldy saussage?
73Zeppelin wrote:
I think increasing the demand for meat is important.
Only important for your arse I wager.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I was just eating a big f****ing steak.
I didnt know bulls penis was a Dijon delicacy?
73Zeppelin wrote:
Then I think I'll order something cute and fuzzy from the charcuterie at the market
A mouldy saussage?
73Zeppelin wrote:
I think increasing the demand for meat is important.
Only important for your arse I wager.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
I didnt know bulls penis was a Dijon delicacy?
It's not, but I can sense you miss the feel of bull schlong in your mouth.
fat_boy wrote:
A mouldy saussage?
We're not talking about the contents of your pants here.
fat_boy wrote:
Only important for your arse I wager.
Helps me contribute to GW and to annoy you.
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Be careful to not hurt his feelings or he might threaten again to take you to court!
You've got a nice little "mutual masturbation" club going with Freddy there, haven't you?
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fat_boy wrote:
I didnt know bulls penis was a Dijon delicacy?
It's not, but I can sense you miss the feel of bull schlong in your mouth.
fat_boy wrote:
A mouldy saussage?
We're not talking about the contents of your pants here.
fat_boy wrote:
Only important for your arse I wager.
Helps me contribute to GW and to annoy you.
Wow, I almost mistook you for a learned man. Guess you're in fine company with the Cap'n and Ol string cheese.
This statement was never false.
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Wow, I almost mistook you for a learned man. Guess you're in fine company with the Cap'n and Ol string cheese.
This statement was never false.
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
Wow, I almost mistook you for a learned man. Guess you're in fine company with the Cap'n and Ol string cheese.
:zzz: If you can't see that they're being infantile, well, I can't really help you with that. I deal with them like the three-moron circus act that they are. If you don't like it, that's fine - don't pay attention to it. I've probably done more for society in the last 3 minutes than those three have in their entire lives (combined). One keeps stalking every post I make, the other seems to have a morbid fascination with my death and the last one can't shut up about global warming. How am I supposed to debate that little menagerie on any kind of intellectual level?
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You've got a nice little "mutual masturbation" club going with Freddy there, haven't you?
You sure are childish for someone with a PhD.
These people do all sorts of gibberish underworld activities as long as they are with thier 'gang'. - Vasudevan Deepak Kuman