If encryption input is small [modified]
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If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption, and to have to encrypt the input and send it to the receiver through the wireless network then the brute force attack can find my input easily without my encryption. That time what should i do is better for me? Is these any method to decide this problem? I need to keep security for my input and send it to receiver in wireless network. Please help and leave me mail? byambaak@yahoo.com Thank you. -- modified at 16:03 Wednesday 24th October, 2007
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If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption, and to have to encrypt the input and send it to the receiver through the wireless network then the brute force attack can find my input easily without my encryption. That time what should i do is better for me? Is these any method to decide this problem? I need to keep security for my input and send it to receiver in wireless network. Please help and leave me mail? byambaak@yahoo.com Thank you. -- modified at 16:03 Wednesday 24th October, 2007
Bimbaa wrote:
If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption
Then you should pack it into a full block output, regardless. Most algorithms will output based on block size, not bytes. So a one byte file might still come back as a 16 byte output simply because of the block size. If you have a single byte and try to output as a single byte, you are already in trouble. If your keys are small such that brute force is fast, you still have a problem. You want long keys and a method of creating a block size output and still restore to original size after decryption. If it is easy with one byte, chances are your algorithm is also too easy.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Bimbaa wrote:
If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption
Then you should pack it into a full block output, regardless. Most algorithms will output based on block size, not bytes. So a one byte file might still come back as a 16 byte output simply because of the block size. If you have a single byte and try to output as a single byte, you are already in trouble. If your keys are small such that brute force is fast, you still have a problem. You want long keys and a method of creating a block size output and still restore to original size after decryption. If it is easy with one byte, chances are your algorithm is also too easy.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yes output is also too small. I did it and in trouble now. It is coming soon my project time but i did my encryption algorithm input one byte and output two bytes. I saw and read the block algorithm as DES triple DES and AES 128, 192 and 256 bits. I would not like my algorithm to follow the standards as their algorithms do. If i would use block size to the input then my algorithm would be similar with these algorithms. because after choosing block input, it would be request to do rounds, shift and substitute the bytes in the block.If their operations wouldn't in the algorithm means not so good encryption. I have used standard substitution table and a few more characters from standards to my encryption and decryption ready. I know this substitution table supports bytes in block not for one byte. But is it possible to use for only one or two byte? and Is that wrong and it brings me again trouble? I read about that byte substitution table is not easy to created and designed therefore i though about can't create new table one myself and use the standard substitution table to my algorithm that is better for me. If i have a chance to decide without using standard table and creating new one then what chance do i have? I really want to create new crypto for small input number. maybe i have something wrong idea, please tell me correct yours one. I'm happy with a professional is talking with me. Thank you.
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Yes output is also too small. I did it and in trouble now. It is coming soon my project time but i did my encryption algorithm input one byte and output two bytes. I saw and read the block algorithm as DES triple DES and AES 128, 192 and 256 bits. I would not like my algorithm to follow the standards as their algorithms do. If i would use block size to the input then my algorithm would be similar with these algorithms. because after choosing block input, it would be request to do rounds, shift and substitute the bytes in the block.If their operations wouldn't in the algorithm means not so good encryption. I have used standard substitution table and a few more characters from standards to my encryption and decryption ready. I know this substitution table supports bytes in block not for one byte. But is it possible to use for only one or two byte? and Is that wrong and it brings me again trouble? I read about that byte substitution table is not easy to created and designed therefore i though about can't create new table one myself and use the standard substitution table to my algorithm that is better for me. If i have a chance to decide without using standard table and creating new one then what chance do i have? I really want to create new crypto for small input number. maybe i have something wrong idea, please tell me correct yours one. I'm happy with a professional is talking with me. Thank you.
Bimbaa wrote:
but i did my encryption algorithm input one byte and output two bytes.
regardless of algorithm, that is too limited on output. I understand the reasoning, it was the same as mine back in the day when I wrote my "living encryption." The idea is good, and you can do a lot, but you can never hope for something that does not leak bits because the output sample is just too small. I would recommend using a standard if you want to be secure, use someone else's work, not your own. If security doesn't matter and you want to fool around on this, then by all means go for it.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Bimbaa wrote:
but i did my encryption algorithm input one byte and output two bytes.
regardless of algorithm, that is too limited on output. I understand the reasoning, it was the same as mine back in the day when I wrote my "living encryption." The idea is good, and you can do a lot, but you can never hope for something that does not leak bits because the output sample is just too small. I would recommend using a standard if you want to be secure, use someone else's work, not your own. If security doesn't matter and you want to fool around on this, then by all means go for it.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I can expand my input as 16 bytes or more than 16 and encrypt it to output as one block or more than one but after expanding byte, last output of the encryption without substitution, column mix, shift row and Inverse operations is not satisfied for me. Their operations are included in the algorithm that means the algorithm seems to be having similar thing with other standards and maybe it has a lot critiques on the using standards in the encryption from other people. I'm a research student that is why the my project should be in new creation or explorer and it would not be applied for standard. I hope it has a way to decide it, and i can do something new one for encryption and decryption. If you have idea, please share me. Question1: I hope you have read about substitution table in the AES. If i use it to my encryption algorithm then does it rise any weakness with the encryption after using it. Question2: what is new protocol is it lately for key exchange protocol? I have the algorithm used Diffie Hellman's key exchanging protocol, which is most known. Thank you.
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I can expand my input as 16 bytes or more than 16 and encrypt it to output as one block or more than one but after expanding byte, last output of the encryption without substitution, column mix, shift row and Inverse operations is not satisfied for me. Their operations are included in the algorithm that means the algorithm seems to be having similar thing with other standards and maybe it has a lot critiques on the using standards in the encryption from other people. I'm a research student that is why the my project should be in new creation or explorer and it would not be applied for standard. I hope it has a way to decide it, and i can do something new one for encryption and decryption. If you have idea, please share me. Question1: I hope you have read about substitution table in the AES. If i use it to my encryption algorithm then does it rise any weakness with the encryption after using it. Question2: what is new protocol is it lately for key exchange protocol? I have the algorithm used Diffie Hellman's key exchanging protocol, which is most known. Thank you.
sorry, I won't help with encryption scenarios directly. Sounds like you know general concepts. But if, as you said, you can break it easily, it is already broken. You should not be able to break your own code by any means other than brute force, and brute force should be measured in as long a time as possible for the significance of the data. After that you can start analyzing the output directly for signs of a good/bad algorithm. After that you always want someone else to look over the idea if it needs to be secure, you are too close to the issue.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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sorry, I won't help with encryption scenarios directly. Sounds like you know general concepts. But if, as you said, you can break it easily, it is already broken. You should not be able to break your own code by any means other than brute force, and brute force should be measured in as long a time as possible for the significance of the data. After that you can start analyzing the output directly for signs of a good/bad algorithm. After that you always want someone else to look over the idea if it needs to be secure, you are too close to the issue.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Ok Thank you for giving advices. I'm happy with taking answers faster from you even i couldn't decide my problem. If you don't mind, may I keep in touch with you futher by this site? you are always around this site? Regards Bimbaa
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Ok Thank you for giving advices. I'm happy with taking answers faster from you even i couldn't decide my problem. If you don't mind, may I keep in touch with you futher by this site? you are always around this site? Regards Bimbaa
It's a public site. Obviously, I can't always help.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Ok Thank you for giving advices. I'm happy with taking answers faster from you even i couldn't decide my problem. If you don't mind, may I keep in touch with you futher by this site? you are always around this site? Regards Bimbaa
Yes that is your right. This is public site. How about by mail? If you have got a mail, which can answer faster, I would like to contact you by mail. If you won't it, you can say "no" directly. i can understand you. thank you
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If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption, and to have to encrypt the input and send it to the receiver through the wireless network then the brute force attack can find my input easily without my encryption. That time what should i do is better for me? Is these any method to decide this problem? I need to keep security for my input and send it to receiver in wireless network. Please help and leave me mail? byambaak@yahoo.com Thank you. -- modified at 16:03 Wednesday 24th October, 2007
Hi Bimbaa,
Bimbaa wrote:
If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption
Look into padding schemes. For example, RSA uses OAEP. See RSA Algorithm[^].
Bimbaa wrote:
brute force attack can find my input easily without my encryption.
Yep. Read up on the attacks... Are you using WEP? From what I recall, it's equivalent to a 40 bit block cipher. It's been a while since I've read into the wireless gear specs and attack vectors. Jeff
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Hi Bimbaa,
Bimbaa wrote:
If it is only given a small input (one byte) for encryption
Look into padding schemes. For example, RSA uses OAEP. See RSA Algorithm[^].
Bimbaa wrote:
brute force attack can find my input easily without my encryption.
Yep. Read up on the attacks... Are you using WEP? From what I recall, it's equivalent to a 40 bit block cipher. It's been a while since I've read into the wireless gear specs and attack vectors. Jeff
Hi Jeff. Thank you for advicing to the site.