Can you build a life from $25?
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Interesting how you actually spend a little time trying to dispute her, but you have no problem accepting Adam's story at face value. You see what you want to see.
oilFactotum wrote:
You see what you want to see.
Wait a damn minute. You started this by disputing the validity of the "experiment' in Al's link, and threw out Barbara Ehrenreich's experiment as counter example. When i challenge your counter-example you fall back on accusing me of "seeing what I want to see". Unable to counter the logic, you attack the person. What a poor loser you are.
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The real question to me is why could a young kid with $25 do what Ehrenreich, a supposedly educated and experienced adult, could not with $1300.00. I think she went into the experiment without an expectation of success and this kid went into it with nothing but success on his mind. She whined, he worked. She walked out on a job, he kept working and found other people that shared a similar attitude. She wasn't prepared to do what it took and he was.
oilFactotum wrote:
The notion is your believe that your personal experience can be applied to the rest of the world.
I belive that anybody who plans their work and works their plan will eventuly be sucessfull.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
The real question to me
A question that cannot be answered. Because Adam, unlike Ehrenreich, provides no information about what he actually did(like, perhaps cheat).
Chris Austin wrote:
I think she went
That's what you think, but it is based on no information at all. You haven't read the book.
Chris Austin wrote:
I belive that anybody who plans their work and works their plan will eventuly be sucessfull.
Yes, that is your notion.
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led mike wrote:
I don't buy the 100% attitude
Sorry to hear that. For me its a key to life.
led mike wrote:
by the time I was a junior in high school my father had passed and I had to work to help our mother pay the bills.
Sorry to hear that. My dad passed pretty early as well the bastard :). I really needed him when I was a senior in HS.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Chris Austin wrote:
You forgot the part about only having $25 to his name.
How does that effect the fact that being a former college athlete with a bachelors degree does not qualify as "starting from scratch"?
led mike
I'm looking at it that he left every of that behind. And, I never seen a university teach the ethics and benefits of a hards day work. Also, I don't see how attending school helps him as a day laborer. Admittedly, being a former athlete probably helps in my opinion, most of the good athletes I know have developed a great work ethic.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Chris Austin wrote:
The real question to me
A question that cannot be answered. Because Adam, unlike Ehrenreich, provides no information about what he actually did(like, perhaps cheat).
Chris Austin wrote:
I think she went
That's what you think, but it is based on no information at all. You haven't read the book.
Chris Austin wrote:
I belive that anybody who plans their work and works their plan will eventuly be sucessfull.
Yes, that is your notion.
oilFactotum wrote:
That's what you think, but it is based on no information at all. You haven't read the book.
Enlighten me then. Why did she walk out on her work? Did she fail to plan? Did she even have a goal?
oilFactotum wrote:
Yes, that is your notion.
Certainly, one that I've seen proven time and time again.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Don't worry, I think this is one of the things Obama plans to change.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
Don't worry, I think this is one of the things Obama plans to change.
I don't normally do predictions but I would be willing to bet like a dinner that rich people will still be able to pretend to be poor after attending college and receiving a bachelors degree regardless of who is elected president.
led mike
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I'm looking at it that he left every of that behind. And, I never seen a university teach the ethics and benefits of a hards day work. Also, I don't see how attending school helps him as a day laborer. Admittedly, being a former athlete probably helps in my opinion, most of the good athletes I know have developed a great work ethic.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
I'm looking at it that he left every of that behind.
You can look at it however you like, that doesn't make it true. How do you leave behind all the lessons learned the abilities gained the wisdom grown from experience. No way that story qualifies as "starting from scratch", period. No way.
led mike
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Chris Austin wrote:
I'm looking at it that he left every of that behind.
You can look at it however you like, that doesn't make it true. How do you leave behind all the lessons learned the abilities gained the wisdom grown from experience. No way that story qualifies as "starting from scratch", period. No way.
led mike
Ok, I'll accept your point for the sake of the argument. :) But, this really makes me wonder about Ehrenreich and her failure.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Don't worry, I think this is one of the things Obama plans to change.
I don't normally do predictions but I would be willing to bet like a dinner that rich people will still be able to pretend to be poor after attending college and receiving a bachelors degree regardless of who is elected president.
led mike
No, I'm actually pretty sure that is what "change" means. Otherwise, why Obama?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Rob Graham wrote:
you're about to vote for Obama
Sure am!
Rob Graham wrote:
why should his background or education invalidate the experiment?
Didn't say that, did I?
oilFactotum wrote:
Sure am!
Me too!
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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oilFactotum wrote:
You see what you want to see.
Wait a damn minute. You started this by disputing the validity of the "experiment' in Al's link, and threw out Barbara Ehrenreich's experiment as counter example. When i challenge your counter-example you fall back on accusing me of "seeing what I want to see". Unable to counter the logic, you attack the person. What a poor loser you are.
Rob Graham wrote:
When i challenge your counter-example
No, what you did is cherry pick a few items from a wiki and drew some unsupported conclusions. That is "seeing what you want to see".
Rob Graham wrote:
Unable to counter the logic
Sorry, logic wasn't involved.
Rob Graham wrote:
What a poor loser you are.
Can't say that I've lost anything. A rich boy's lark doesn't prove a thing about the life of the homeless or the working poor.
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oilFactotum wrote:
That's what you think, but it is based on no information at all. You haven't read the book.
Enlighten me then. Why did she walk out on her work? Did she fail to plan? Did she even have a goal?
oilFactotum wrote:
Yes, that is your notion.
Certainly, one that I've seen proven time and time again.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
Enlighten me
Read the book, broaden your horizons.
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No, I'm actually pretty sure that is what "change" means. Otherwise, why Obama?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Chris Austin wrote:
Enlighten me
Read the book, broaden your horizons.
I see no value in the book. I find much more value in finding stories of success and trying to understand why and how people achieved their long term goals.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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I see no value in the book. I find much more value in finding stories of success and trying to understand why and how people achieved their long term goals.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
I see no value in the book.
We wouldn't want anything to complicate your notions.
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Ok, I'll accept your point for the sake of the argument. :) But, this really makes me wonder about Ehrenreich and her failure.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
But, this really makes me wonder about Ehrenreich and her failure.
Good, they are both experiments and all they can do is approximate the scenario. From experiments like that you can compile information about the scenario. Those pieces of information can be helpful in trying to decide how to move forward in problem solving. However they are not a testament to anything. They don't provide any sort of holistic revelation of the scenario. Something that a person with a bachelors degree should be able to comprehend. I would say that if anything he has proven that his education was a waste. "The book, he says, is a testament to what ordinary Americans can achieve." My ass! Only for people that think a rich person with a bachelors degree qualifies as an "ordinary American". Rich people like that guy don't know the first thing about not being rich. Him and his book and his experiment and his point of view are all garbage, period.
led mike
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Rob Graham wrote:
When i challenge your counter-example
No, what you did is cherry pick a few items from a wiki and drew some unsupported conclusions. That is "seeing what you want to see".
Rob Graham wrote:
Unable to counter the logic
Sorry, logic wasn't involved.
Rob Graham wrote:
What a poor loser you are.
Can't say that I've lost anything. A rich boy's lark doesn't prove a thing about the life of the homeless or the working poor.
Thank you for proving my point by continuing the ad hominem attack.
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Chris Austin wrote:
But, this really makes me wonder about Ehrenreich and her failure.
Good, they are both experiments and all they can do is approximate the scenario. From experiments like that you can compile information about the scenario. Those pieces of information can be helpful in trying to decide how to move forward in problem solving. However they are not a testament to anything. They don't provide any sort of holistic revelation of the scenario. Something that a person with a bachelors degree should be able to comprehend. I would say that if anything he has proven that his education was a waste. "The book, he says, is a testament to what ordinary Americans can achieve." My ass! Only for people that think a rich person with a bachelors degree qualifies as an "ordinary American". Rich people like that guy don't know the first thing about not being rich. Him and his book and his experiment and his point of view are all garbage, period.
led mike
led mike wrote:
My ass! Only for people that think a rich person with a bachelors degree qualifies as an "ordinary American".
Nonsense. He is no less ordinary than you or I.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Chris Austin wrote:
I see no value in the book.
We wouldn't want anything to complicate your notions.
It's more of a case of polluting my mind with defeatist attitudes.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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led mike wrote:
My ass! Only for people that think a rich person with a bachelors degree qualifies as an "ordinary American".
Nonsense. He is no less ordinary than you or I.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long