Words fail me.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
We were just coming out of our frontier era at that time so there was still a great deal of latent violence,
The "Wild West" is a myth created by the pulp-novels of a century ago.
My west Texas ancestors [^]will be very sorry to hear that. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~txbrown/pibaugh.html[^] :laugh:
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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My west Texas ancestors [^]will be very sorry to hear that. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~txbrown/pibaugh.html[^] :laugh:
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
:laugh: Yourself. We both know that you are not much more honest than the kiddies are. We both know that the "Wild West" is the myth that the frontier was exceeding and exceptionally dangerous (when, in fact, it was less dangerous that the cities even of that time, much less of our time), and that everyone walked around wearing a six-shooter, with which, at the least provocation, he was only too willing to kill another.
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:laugh: Yourself. We both know that you are not much more honest than the kiddies are. We both know that the "Wild West" is the myth that the frontier was exceeding and exceptionally dangerous (when, in fact, it was less dangerous that the cities even of that time, much less of our time), and that everyone walked around wearing a six-shooter, with which, at the least provocation, he was only too willing to kill another.
Ilíon wrote:
We both know that you are not much more honest than the kiddies are.
Perhaps, but then I am honest about my dishonesty.
Ilíon wrote:
We both know that the "Wild West" is the myth that the frontier was exceeding and exceptionally dangerous
If you are referring to the romanticizing of the old west, than yes, it was certainley romanticized. Gun fights in the middle of town were certainly rare (although the Southern tradition of dueling was very real). But most of the myth was based very much on the truth. I'm certain that statistically, there were many urban areas at that time that were more dangerous, but the frontier was certainly a very dangerous and 'wild' place. My own family was heavily involved in that violence throughout most of American history. I've been a student of that history my entire adult life, and I've worked as a librarian in a research library dedicated to the history of the transmississippi west. So, I can assue you its a topic I'm not very likely to be greatly intimated on by the vast dept of your 'education'.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Ro0ke wrote:
I'm sorry for misunderstanding...
No problem at all, no need to be sorry, no need to apologize. There is nothing at all culpably wrong with not understanding something. There is nothing wrong with asking for clarification. Rather, it is the *refusal* to understand which is culpably wrong, it is the refusal to acknowledge and understand clarification which is culpably wrong. And when a refusal to understand is coupled with the sorts of behavior these 'atheists' (the quotes are because they only play at being atheists, for they refuse to understand what atheism entails) constantly exhibit, then such persons make themselves in all ways despicable.
Ro0ke wrote:
Why are there no such things as innocence and guilt if atheism were indeed the truth about the nature of reality?
In a nutshell: Concepts can be explained only by reference to mind(s). These things (innocence/guilt, responsibility/non-responsibility, sanity/insanity, rationality/irrationality, etc) are all concepts; as such, they exist only "within" a mind or minds. But atheism -- the denial that there is a God -- cannot logically make use of invocation of minds to explain anything, for the very nature of atheism is to deny that reality is fundamentally mental. I've made reference above to Richard Dawkins' article explicating his "dangerous idea," 'Let's all stop beating Basil's car,' the thesis of which is that concepts such as responsibility and blame (i.e. holding another responsibile for his actions) are faulty and false concepts, that these (and many other like) concepts do not accurately reflect the true nature of reality. Now, *IF* atheism were indeed the truth about the nature of reality, THEN Dawkins' claims would be correct. The fact that he doesn't himself believe (as he admits and acknowledges in the conclusion of the piece) the view he's trying to advance certainly tells us something interesting about Professor Dawkins, but it doesn't change the fact that the view he is trying to advance follows logically and inescapably from atheism, from the denial that there is a God. Even though the thesis and claims Dawkins advances are false, and even though Dawkins is a liar (for he knows and even admits that he doesn't actually believe the assertions he's advancing), I highly recommend reading his entire article. Two Basic Worldview
Thanks for your link to Dawkins' article, which I had not read until today. It is great to quote atheists because, as Greg Bahnsen said, you won’t have to wait long before they supply the rope with which they hang themselves. I actually agree with Dawkins' approach: we should track down a problem and fix it. With that said, I must say also that this approach can only be consistently applied from the Judeo-Christian worldview, which presupposes the existence of God. Why? Simple, let's apply Dawkins’ principle to his own worldview and check for inconsistencies: He says “we laugh at [Basil’s] irrationality”, and “As scientists, we believe that human brains, though they may not work in the same way as man-made computers, are as surely governed by the laws of physics”. Here are some problems I find: Unless Basil’s brains are the exception, how can Dawkins justify anybody laughing at the actions produced by a brain that is governed by the laws of physics? His laughing at Basil’s irrationality suggests that he presupposes the value of the laws of reason in the proper functioning of the brain. Now, giving Dawkins an undeserved higher ground and not asking him to account for the material aspect of any kind of ‘law’ (which he will still have to do), I would like to nominate him to teach a new college course: The Physics of the Laws of Reason and then enroll in it to get enlightened in the matter. In summary, a materialist like Dawkins has to be utterly (even though not necessarily consciously) convinced of the reality of the immaterial, universal and transcendental laws of reason, in order to argue against the existence of anything with these characteristics. If he is right, then the laws of reason do not exist, but in this case he would have no grounds to ‘laugh’ at anybody that does not conform to what does not exist, would he?
Juanfer
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Thanks for your link to Dawkins' article, which I had not read until today. It is great to quote atheists because, as Greg Bahnsen said, you won’t have to wait long before they supply the rope with which they hang themselves. I actually agree with Dawkins' approach: we should track down a problem and fix it. With that said, I must say also that this approach can only be consistently applied from the Judeo-Christian worldview, which presupposes the existence of God. Why? Simple, let's apply Dawkins’ principle to his own worldview and check for inconsistencies: He says “we laugh at [Basil’s] irrationality”, and “As scientists, we believe that human brains, though they may not work in the same way as man-made computers, are as surely governed by the laws of physics”. Here are some problems I find: Unless Basil’s brains are the exception, how can Dawkins justify anybody laughing at the actions produced by a brain that is governed by the laws of physics? His laughing at Basil’s irrationality suggests that he presupposes the value of the laws of reason in the proper functioning of the brain. Now, giving Dawkins an undeserved higher ground and not asking him to account for the material aspect of any kind of ‘law’ (which he will still have to do), I would like to nominate him to teach a new college course: The Physics of the Laws of Reason and then enroll in it to get enlightened in the matter. In summary, a materialist like Dawkins has to be utterly (even though not necessarily consciously) convinced of the reality of the immaterial, universal and transcendental laws of reason, in order to argue against the existence of anything with these characteristics. If he is right, then the laws of reason do not exist, but in this case he would have no grounds to ‘laugh’ at anybody that does not conform to what does not exist, would he?
Juanfer
juanfer68 wrote:
[pretend I've duplicated your entire post]
Indeed. C.S. Lewis refuted Dawkin's theory on blame/punishment decades before Dawkins wrote the article: The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment[^]. And, if I recall correctly, G.K. Chesterton refuted this theory early in the 20th century.
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Ilíon wrote:
But we already *knew* that about you.
"We"? Are you having delusions of royalty again?
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Ilíon wrote:
But we already *knew* that about you.
"We"? Are you having delusions of royalty again?