Onan's spilling...
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Christian Graus wrote: the sperm she got when we were trying for Calvin were not ever two months old Don't blush, I'm not into judging people ;). 2 1/2 years is quite a long time. I'm glad you got two lovely kids at the end of it :). Ali
Alison Pentland wrote: 2 1/2 years is quite a long time. You're telling me. 'You've got a hand', she would say to me. I dunno why, but the first kid killed her libido, and the second restored it. We want a third, but I'm worried if it's a flip-flop situation and then I'll have to have a fourth !!! Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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Paul Watson wrote: I love the way people always throw in a "disclaimer" after talking about uncomfortable (even slightly) topics. Hmmm, yes, well I don't normaly talk about this kind of thing, especially to guys, and I know most of you are guys. I'm very reserved, and I blush at the slightest thing. (Yes, I am blushing right now :-O ). I've responded to all sorts of postings on CP, its weird - I suppose not being able to see people's faces makes it so much easier. Anyway, it wasn't just a disclaimer. I was trying to show my 'sources'. That is, trying to show that it wasn't just something 'some bloke told me'. I like to do this is I disagree factually with people, to show I'm not just having a go a them. Paul Watson wrote: Do you have kids Alison? Janina likes to tease me every few months by taking out baby and bridal books from the library. No. But we are trying for them. Ssshhh, don't tell anyon, its a secret OK. ;) Ali
Alison Pentland wrote: That is, trying to show that it wasn't just something 'some bloke told me'. So not like the one about them turning blue and falling off if you stop ? :P Alison Pentland wrote: No. But we are trying for them. Great - and how does that work exactly ? :confused: :laugh: Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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Alison Pentland wrote: I've responded to all sorts of postings on CP, its weird - I suppose not being able to see people's faces makes it so much easier. You would never believe how shy I am in real life from the way I go off on CP, but I am. For me it is more the voice, I can write and type far better than I can speak and so up goes the confidence online, in letters and down goes the confidence on the telephone or face-to-face. Alison Pentland wrote: But we are trying for them. Ssshhh, don't tell anyon, its a secret OK. ;) , it is safe with me. Just don't blush when the doctor delivers ok? :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: Just don't blush when the doctor delivers ok? It must be wierd being a woman, and having to regularly flash your pink bits at a doctor. I had a little lump on my scrotum, and for months my wife told me to go to the doctor, but I flat out refused, there was no way I was flashing my sack to the quack !!! It went away by itself in the end, by sheer force of my will, I reckon. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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Paul Watson wrote: Just don't blush when the doctor delivers ok? It must be wierd being a woman, and having to regularly flash your pink bits at a doctor. I had a little lump on my scrotum, and for months my wife told me to go to the doctor, but I flat out refused, there was no way I was flashing my sack to the quack !!! It went away by itself in the end, by sheer force of my will, I reckon. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
Christian Graus wrote: It must be wierd being a woman, and having to regularly flash your pink bits at a doctor. They don't really have too.... They are just more afraid of death then us guys. Christian Graus wrote: but I flat out refused, there was no way I was flashing my sack to the quack !!! It went away by itself in the end, by sheer force of my will, I reckon. I approach it this way: If it is a minor problem, then it will go away, and if it is something terrible, the doctor won't be able to help me anyway so why bother. If God wants to take you out, he's going to do it. :)
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Christian Graus wrote: Hehe - I have a mental image of Martin going for it on himself and saying 'go in, get into it' to the girl..... Benjymous' reply of chocolate fingers was oh so much better a mental image than Martin Mavinski spanking the monkey with a pissed off girlfriend looking on in shocked puzzlement. "You want ME to do WHAT in front of YOU?!?! Take your hand off your penis when I am talking to you Martin! OMG you bastard!" I feel so dirty now X| regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: Benjymous' reply of chocolate fingers was oh so much better a mental image I presume you had a different mental image to me then. Mine involved a butt. Paul Watson wrote: OMG you bastard! See, that would at least be funny. The other one was just gross, unless your childhood dream is to be a proctologist. Who chooses such a career anyhow ? Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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benjymous wrote: who said that it's actually healthy and beneficial, since the sperm you ejaculate when you masturbate are the weaker ones, meaning you're leaving the stronger ones available for when/if you do have sex Benjymous, I regard you as a pretty smart guy and I groan every time I see a post by you in response to one of mine because I know I am in for a well written and intelligent counter arguement which leaves me on shaky ground. However, how on earth can you believe that spanking the monkey sorts the bad sperm from the good sperm? How does your "system" know that you are spanking and therefore should be ejecting the retarded sperm and not that you are with a women and therefore should be firing the good ones? If this was true every sperm donor bank in the world would be closing up shop right now because, well, they don't exactly collect sperm by waiting until you are "done" with a women and then "extracting" the fired sperm. They do it by you spanking the monkey while Thelma The Leather Clad Queen cheers you on. Spanking is beneficial though, it keeps you from going starkers when your girlfriend is at that time of the month. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: They do it by you spanking the monkey while Thelma The Leather Clad Queen cheers you on. :omg: I'm not even gonna ask how you know this. BTW - did you hear about the guy (in Sweden?) who was a sperm donor and has been forced to pay child support? cheers, Chris Maunder
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Paul Watson wrote: They do it by you spanking the monkey while Thelma The Leather Clad Queen cheers you on. :omg: I'm not even gonna ask how you know this. BTW - did you hear about the guy (in Sweden?) who was a sperm donor and has been forced to pay child support? cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: BTW - did you hear about the guy (in Sweden?) who was a sperm donor and has been forced to pay child support? Huh !! I have heard a similar story to this involving the USA, where a Child got the courts to open the records to find out who his father was. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I am sick of fighting with Martin, I think I will ignore his posts from here on in, and spend the time working on articles instead. Christian Graus
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Christian Graus wrote: It must be wierd being a woman, and having to regularly flash your pink bits at a doctor. They don't really have too.... They are just more afraid of death then us guys. Christian Graus wrote: but I flat out refused, there was no way I was flashing my sack to the quack !!! It went away by itself in the end, by sheer force of my will, I reckon. I approach it this way: If it is a minor problem, then it will go away, and if it is something terrible, the doctor won't be able to help me anyway so why bother. If God wants to take you out, he's going to do it. :)
Christian Graus wrote: It must be wierd being a woman, and having to regularly flash your pink bits at a doctor. Martin Marvinski wrote: They don't really have too.... They are just more afraid of death then us guys. YOU WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot describe how offensive and distressing I find your remarks Martin. If you only knew what you were saying ...... please spend a moment thinking about what some people may have gone through. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. BUT if you want to upset and thoughly p*ss off 50% of the worlds population, then you are going the right way about it. Ali
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Christian Graus wrote: and it took us 2 1/2 years Crumbs. 15 times a week for 2.5 years *Paul does some math* :omg: That's a milk lorry. Seriously though... What is the "average" time to pregnancy? i.e. Is 2.5 years excessively wrong or about right? I guess I will get around to reading up on all the facts, myths and fears in oh, *checks calendar*, 7 years time. Just interested to know what you must have thought and gone through for 2.5 years of trying (if it was a long time indeed.) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: Seriously though... What is the "average" time to pregnancy? i.e. Is 2.5 years excessively wrong or about right? For me it's one hit and your done. Both my kids were created from one attempt each. Both times there were significant breaks before the try. First wife was sick and second we were travelling overseas and my son was in the same room as us. Also after there was a significant break, so I know it was a one hit wonder both times. First my wife was still sick and after relenting for one wouldn't let me near for many weeks. Second I was sick (in England) and then didn't get any until after we returned home. The funny thing with the second was it wasn't planned so to speak. We were going to try eventually but not exactly then (don't know why). Wife was off the pill reading for the time. I was meant to play Onan so as not to get pregnant at this time. Right at the exact moment I was meant to play Onan my 2 year old son wakes up and wants to get into our bed. Damn, but you can finish up quick when you get caught by your kids. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: It must be wierd being a woman, and having to regularly flash your pink bits at a doctor. Martin Marvinski wrote: They don't really have too.... They are just more afraid of death then us guys. YOU WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot describe how offensive and distressing I find your remarks Martin. If you only knew what you were saying ...... please spend a moment thinking about what some people may have gone through. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. BUT if you want to upset and thoughly p*ss off 50% of the worlds population, then you are going the right way about it. Ali
Alison Pentland wrote: YOU WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot describe how offensive and distressing I find your remarks Martin. If you only knew what you were saying ...... please spend a moment thinking about what some people may have gone through. Alison, don't make me defend Martin, it's not natural. Just to clarify my understanding of this and to find out if my understanding is correct. The 'Flashing their pink bits...' quote was referring to check-ups by gaenacologists and not having babies. When Martin said 'They don't really have too.... They are just more afraid of death then us guys.' he meant women don't have to show their bits off to doctor's (as in required too or for fun). But that they do it as they are aware (and afraid) of possible consequences if they don't. Where as men just won't go for any reason. Either cause they are scared of doctor's, too stupid to care and maybe embarased by the size of their dick, I don't know. Anyway as an example, I will die (seriously) before any doctor or anyone sticks their finger or any object up my arse. If they want to test for something do it the natural way and cut me open from arsehole to breakfast time. It's not logical, in fact it's stupid, but sometimes stuff happens in life that make these things sensible to you (as in the person who thinks like this). Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Alison Pentland wrote: YOU WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot describe how offensive and distressing I find your remarks Martin. If you only knew what you were saying ...... please spend a moment thinking about what some people may have gone through. Alison, don't make me defend Martin, it's not natural. Just to clarify my understanding of this and to find out if my understanding is correct. The 'Flashing their pink bits...' quote was referring to check-ups by gaenacologists and not having babies. When Martin said 'They don't really have too.... They are just more afraid of death then us guys.' he meant women don't have to show their bits off to doctor's (as in required too or for fun). But that they do it as they are aware (and afraid) of possible consequences if they don't. Where as men just won't go for any reason. Either cause they are scared of doctor's, too stupid to care and maybe embarased by the size of their dick, I don't know. Anyway as an example, I will die (seriously) before any doctor or anyone sticks their finger or any object up my arse. If they want to test for something do it the natural way and cut me open from arsehole to breakfast time. It's not logical, in fact it's stupid, but sometimes stuff happens in life that make these things sensible to you (as in the person who thinks like this). Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
It was the 'they don't have to' bit that got up my nose - as if we want to. One of my best friends is going to die of breast cancer because she didn't 'want to reveal her body to a doctor' - don't tell me it is the perogative of men to be too scared to see a doctor. It just isn't true. And I know plenty of women who won't go for smear tests because they are fed up with being treated like a piece of meat - even though it may save their lives. I'm not listing any more examples - but yes I find it offensive to suggest that somehow its only men that find this difficult. Maybe you think I over re-acted - well maybe I did, but women get a lot of crap on this forum and I'm fed with it. Ali
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Paul Watson wrote: That's a milk lorry. Do you mean what I think you mean ? Paul Watson wrote: Is 2.5 years excessively wrong or about right? Very much so. Donna had me get a sperm count done because there was nothing happening. You never feel so humble as when you have caught your little guys in a jar, jumped in the car, raced to a clinic and handed them to a matronly woman behind the counter. I was above average. I forget the figure but it was 10,000,000 or something. So every time after that I would say - 'there's another 10 million honey, just grab one and do something with it, OK ?'. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
Christian Graus wrote: Do you mean what I think you mean ? I don't know if you are thinking what I am thinking, so I have no clue if I mean what you think I mean. What are you thinking? Christian Graus wrote: I forget the figure but it was 10,000,000 or something. So every time after that I would say - 'there's another 10 million honey, just grab one and do something with it, OK ?'. Ok maybe I am different but here goes. For a guy it seems to me that impotence or premature ejaculation are more a source of problems/embarassment than low sperm count. But to a woman being unable to concieve (or having difficulting doing so) from whatever cause is a much bigger problem/embarassment/hurt than not being able to "perform." So... if I was in your situation I would probably be more relieved if it was me at fault than her. I can just imagine the issue, problems and counselling required if Janina could not concieve while I was perfectly virile. Not that we don't care at all about low sperm count, just that we have bigger worries if they happen. Christian Graus wrote: to a matronly woman behind the counter Drive-thru McDonalds just popped into my head... how odd. from other post "I had a little lump on my scrotum, and for months my wife told me to go to the doctor, but I flat out refused, there was no way I was flashing my sack to the quack !!!" I totally agree. I either die from it or it goes away, no doctor, no ball fondling thank you. Maybe I am wrong but I think that also women tend to have more complications with their bodies than men, especially around that area. So they have had many generations to get used to being more fondled, poked and inspected, and so came to terms with it better than us macho men who never get sick or get lumps in uncomfortable places. We should ask Andre Pearce, apparently one of "his boys" was popped in and not out for awhile and had to get a doc to fix it. That must have been terrifying. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
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Paul Watson wrote: Seriously though... What is the "average" time to pregnancy? i.e. Is 2.5 years excessively wrong or about right? For me it's one hit and your done. Both my kids were created from one attempt each. Both times there were significant breaks before the try. First wife was sick and second we were travelling overseas and my son was in the same room as us. Also after there was a significant break, so I know it was a one hit wonder both times. First my wife was still sick and after relenting for one wouldn't let me near for many weeks. Second I was sick (in England) and then didn't get any until after we returned home. The funny thing with the second was it wasn't planned so to speak. We were going to try eventually but not exactly then (don't know why). Wife was off the pill reading for the time. I was meant to play Onan so as not to get pregnant at this time. Right at the exact moment I was meant to play Onan my 2 year old son wakes up and wants to get into our bed. Damn, but you can finish up quick when you get caught by your kids. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: and after relenting for one wouldn't let me near for many weeks Women can be cruel huh. I always thought it was two-faced that we have have to be ready to go anytime they want, but they can feign whatever they feel like so that they don't have to go at it when they don't want. Sure, on average we are more sexed, but it is not like all guys want sex all the time. Even us brutes like a break or a night off now and then. Michael Martin wrote: For me it's one hit and your done. Both my kids were created from one attempt each. I wonder what the factors are that setup the chances for a succesful conception or not. I mean Christian had a high sperm count, but maybe his guys failed Swimming 101 while yours could be in the Aussie Olympic Swim Team. Or is it more to do with the wives "verility"? e.g. Your wife has a better lap pool, like the Olympics, than Christian's wife who may have "just" a Common Wealth Games lap pool. Strange stuff indeed. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
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Michael Martin wrote: and after relenting for one wouldn't let me near for many weeks Women can be cruel huh. I always thought it was two-faced that we have have to be ready to go anytime they want, but they can feign whatever they feel like so that they don't have to go at it when they don't want. Sure, on average we are more sexed, but it is not like all guys want sex all the time. Even us brutes like a break or a night off now and then. Michael Martin wrote: For me it's one hit and your done. Both my kids were created from one attempt each. I wonder what the factors are that setup the chances for a succesful conception or not. I mean Christian had a high sperm count, but maybe his guys failed Swimming 101 while yours could be in the Aussie Olympic Swim Team. Or is it more to do with the wives "verility"? e.g. Your wife has a better lap pool, like the Olympics, than Christian's wife who may have "just" a Common Wealth Games lap pool. Strange stuff indeed. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: I mean Christian had a high sperm count, but maybe his guys failed Swimming 101 while yours could be in the Aussie Olympic Swim Team. Or is it more to do with the wives "verility"? e.g. Your wife has a better lap pool, like the Olympics, than Christian's wife who may have "just" a Common Wealth Games lap pool. Who can say, but it is true that the vaginal wall kills sperm dead on contact. Dunno why. So a straight shot helps, a large target helps, the amount of sperm poison present is a factor. Damn, they told me it was so simple in school, but when we had to find out more, I'm surprised ANYONE gets to procreate. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: Do you mean what I think you mean ? I don't know if you are thinking what I am thinking, so I have no clue if I mean what you think I mean. What are you thinking? Christian Graus wrote: I forget the figure but it was 10,000,000 or something. So every time after that I would say - 'there's another 10 million honey, just grab one and do something with it, OK ?'. Ok maybe I am different but here goes. For a guy it seems to me that impotence or premature ejaculation are more a source of problems/embarassment than low sperm count. But to a woman being unable to concieve (or having difficulting doing so) from whatever cause is a much bigger problem/embarassment/hurt than not being able to "perform." So... if I was in your situation I would probably be more relieved if it was me at fault than her. I can just imagine the issue, problems and counselling required if Janina could not concieve while I was perfectly virile. Not that we don't care at all about low sperm count, just that we have bigger worries if they happen. Christian Graus wrote: to a matronly woman behind the counter Drive-thru McDonalds just popped into my head... how odd. from other post "I had a little lump on my scrotum, and for months my wife told me to go to the doctor, but I flat out refused, there was no way I was flashing my sack to the quack !!!" I totally agree. I either die from it or it goes away, no doctor, no ball fondling thank you. Maybe I am wrong but I think that also women tend to have more complications with their bodies than men, especially around that area. So they have had many generations to get used to being more fondled, poked and inspected, and so came to terms with it better than us macho men who never get sick or get lumps in uncomfortable places. We should ask Andre Pearce, apparently one of "his boys" was popped in and not out for awhile and had to get a doc to fix it. That must have been terrifying. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: What are you thinking? Of a big truck full of my guys. Paul Watson wrote: So... if I was in your situation I would probably be more relieved if it was me at fault than her. I can just imagine the issue, problems and counselling required if Janina could not concieve while I was perfectly virile. See, I'm not at all that sensitive. My household is not for wusses. Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic when Donna is truly upset, but the usual answer I get when I hurt myself is 'don't be a baby', and I'll usually respond to things with a joke, so it's not a very introspective household, I am afraid. Paul Watson wrote: no doctor, no ball fondling thank you. Amen to that. Paul Watson wrote: Maybe I am wrong but I think that also women tend to have more complications with their bodies than men, especially around that area. Maybe slightly, but it's also true that womens lib has left us scared not to address any womens health issue as a society to the nth degree, whereas we both just agreed we would suffer in silence. Mens issues are not trendy, indeed if we put money into researching ball cancer, the women would cry patriarchy. They want the money for their cancerous jugs, and that is apparently justified. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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It was the 'they don't have to' bit that got up my nose - as if we want to. One of my best friends is going to die of breast cancer because she didn't 'want to reveal her body to a doctor' - don't tell me it is the perogative of men to be too scared to see a doctor. It just isn't true. And I know plenty of women who won't go for smear tests because they are fed up with being treated like a piece of meat - even though it may save their lives. I'm not listing any more examples - but yes I find it offensive to suggest that somehow its only men that find this difficult. Maybe you think I over re-acted - well maybe I did, but women get a lot of crap on this forum and I'm fed with it. Ali
Alison Pentland wrote: And I know plenty of women who won't go for smear tests because they are fed up with being treated like a piece of meat - even though it may save their lives. I guess that is why we have ads on the TV all the time in regard to the importance of having them. I'll admit I don't even know what they do ( no, don't tell me ). Alison Pentland wrote: don't tell me it is the perogative of men to be too scared to see a doctor. It just isn't true. It's obvious that the fact that your friend is dying makes any discussion on this issue very personal for you, which makes it hard to make objective comments. But I am an insensitive prat, so I'm going to barge ahead anyhow. Any comment that is made at any time regarding men and women is obviously going to be talking about what is average, what is typical. I am astounded how often the 'there are no good girl programmers, because I've never met a girl programmer' type post comes up here, because the comment is obviously based on a sample set of 0, and anyone who spends time here on a regular basis knows that there are LESS girl programmers ( for reasons that stand a good chance of relating less to ability than social conditioning ), but that there is no difference in ability that relates directly to sex. However, it is the norm for girls to go to the gyno, yet I don't think there is even a name for a doctor who deals with the organs specific to men, except the ball cutter, and I think he's just a surgeon. Naturally, some guys will be more comfortable in flashing their nuts to the quack than others, and some women will be less comfortable than others with the whole thing of showing a doctor their privates, but it cannot be disputed that the NORM ( again I think this comes down largely to social conditioning ) is for women to have checkup and men to keep it to themselves. We spend our childhood in locker rooms furtively trying to confirm our suspicion that everyone else is hung like a horse and we're more like a hampster, so even after we get over that, and the years of homophobia that most teenagers seem to experience, the fact is there is no real social conditioning in place to make us feel it at all normal to ever have that region looked at. In contrast, there are ads about breast checks and pap smears all over the place. Alison Pentland wrote: And I know plenty of women who won't go for smear tests because they are fed up with being treated like a pi
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Alison Pentland wrote: And I know plenty of women who won't go for smear tests because they are fed up with being treated like a piece of meat - even though it may save their lives. I guess that is why we have ads on the TV all the time in regard to the importance of having them. I'll admit I don't even know what they do ( no, don't tell me ). Alison Pentland wrote: don't tell me it is the perogative of men to be too scared to see a doctor. It just isn't true. It's obvious that the fact that your friend is dying makes any discussion on this issue very personal for you, which makes it hard to make objective comments. But I am an insensitive prat, so I'm going to barge ahead anyhow. Any comment that is made at any time regarding men and women is obviously going to be talking about what is average, what is typical. I am astounded how often the 'there are no good girl programmers, because I've never met a girl programmer' type post comes up here, because the comment is obviously based on a sample set of 0, and anyone who spends time here on a regular basis knows that there are LESS girl programmers ( for reasons that stand a good chance of relating less to ability than social conditioning ), but that there is no difference in ability that relates directly to sex. However, it is the norm for girls to go to the gyno, yet I don't think there is even a name for a doctor who deals with the organs specific to men, except the ball cutter, and I think he's just a surgeon. Naturally, some guys will be more comfortable in flashing their nuts to the quack than others, and some women will be less comfortable than others with the whole thing of showing a doctor their privates, but it cannot be disputed that the NORM ( again I think this comes down largely to social conditioning ) is for women to have checkup and men to keep it to themselves. We spend our childhood in locker rooms furtively trying to confirm our suspicion that everyone else is hung like a horse and we're more like a hampster, so even after we get over that, and the years of homophobia that most teenagers seem to experience, the fact is there is no real social conditioning in place to make us feel it at all normal to ever have that region looked at. In contrast, there are ads about breast checks and pap smears all over the place. Alison Pentland wrote: And I know plenty of women who won't go for smear tests because they are fed up with being treated like a pi
Christian Graus wrote: But I am an insensitive prat, so I'm going to barge ahead anyhow. Well, that made me laugh - so that can't be bad. Yes, I guess its almost impossible for me to be objective here. That guys comments obviously came across all wrong to me - today I don't feel quite so wound up about it. Christian Graus wrote: The statement was obviously a sweeping one, and as a generalisation it is absolutely true. Yes, generalisations are so easy to use and they are never 100% true. They frequently annoy me. Probably because I often feel I am on they wrong side of them. Story : I've worked here for 2 years, programming and stuff, so they know me pretty well. I do all sorts - CAD, electronics, programming. A lady in the office said to me the other day, 'women are no good at anything technical'. I despair, what does she think I do all day? Do women get a lot of crap on this forum? Well, I think so but maybe I'm over sensitive (I would admit that I am a very sensitive person). I guess I mean mostly in the Soapbox. Example 1 - 'all women are tying to trick you into a long term relationship', like we have already said obviously not 100% true. I could say 'all men are bastards trying to get into your pants and not caring about you as a person at all'. Of course I know that's not 100% true either (at least I hope not - please don't shatter my illusions). Example 2 - 'should women have breast implants?', I felt this thread talked about women in the third person, as if is they are not people at all. It didn't occur to the people discussing it to consider how the woman might feel about her body, only what 'benefit' it might give them. Perhaps I feel under fire because there are so few women to put our point of view. I might be wrong but I get the feeling that there are a couple of guys on this forum who don't like women ..... the cynic in me says they have probably never got any where near a women and just feel frustrated! :laugh: Hehehe! Anyway, thats enough ramblings from me. Thank you for your sensitive reply. :) Ali
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Christian Graus wrote: But I am an insensitive prat, so I'm going to barge ahead anyhow. Well, that made me laugh - so that can't be bad. Yes, I guess its almost impossible for me to be objective here. That guys comments obviously came across all wrong to me - today I don't feel quite so wound up about it. Christian Graus wrote: The statement was obviously a sweeping one, and as a generalisation it is absolutely true. Yes, generalisations are so easy to use and they are never 100% true. They frequently annoy me. Probably because I often feel I am on they wrong side of them. Story : I've worked here for 2 years, programming and stuff, so they know me pretty well. I do all sorts - CAD, electronics, programming. A lady in the office said to me the other day, 'women are no good at anything technical'. I despair, what does she think I do all day? Do women get a lot of crap on this forum? Well, I think so but maybe I'm over sensitive (I would admit that I am a very sensitive person). I guess I mean mostly in the Soapbox. Example 1 - 'all women are tying to trick you into a long term relationship', like we have already said obviously not 100% true. I could say 'all men are bastards trying to get into your pants and not caring about you as a person at all'. Of course I know that's not 100% true either (at least I hope not - please don't shatter my illusions). Example 2 - 'should women have breast implants?', I felt this thread talked about women in the third person, as if is they are not people at all. It didn't occur to the people discussing it to consider how the woman might feel about her body, only what 'benefit' it might give them. Perhaps I feel under fire because there are so few women to put our point of view. I might be wrong but I get the feeling that there are a couple of guys on this forum who don't like women ..... the cynic in me says they have probably never got any where near a women and just feel frustrated! :laugh: Hehehe! Anyway, thats enough ramblings from me. Thank you for your sensitive reply. :) Ali
Alison Pentland wrote: I despair, what does she think I do all day? ROTFL - it's one thing to say that women in general tend not to excel in technical pursuits ( which is different to say 'women are no GOOD at it', it could just be that they don't WANT to, by and large, pursue such things ), but to word it like that, and to your FACE ??? I hope you said something like, 'No, idiots are no good at anything technical, because I sure am. Aren't you ?'. Alison Pentland wrote: 'all women are tying to trick you into a long term relationship' Whoever said that is a moron. It's my opinion that people who are looking for sex and hiding from a relationship are emotionally stunted in any case. Of course, that's based on the fact that I have a strong nesting instinct, I've wanted a family since I was 12. So maybe I'm compensating for the lack of affection in my own childhood, and it's me who is stunted. It's all a matter of perspective, I guess.... Alison Pentland wrote: 'should women have breast implants?' Well, you have to understand that guys can only talk about this from the point of view of an onlooker. Should women have implants ? My opinion is no, if they think that is what defines them as a person, maybe they should have counselling instead. Having said that, if they pay for them, then they can do what they like. I will admit I would always consider my first impression of anyone who did that to be somewhat shallow, but it's also none of my business. The point, as I make below, is that it's probably not worth getting upset over. In any case, we have a vested interest. All men like breasts, I daresay, and while hopefully no-one would go out with someone based on their cup size, once we ARE with someone, they are the only ones we get to play with, so it's only natural that we have an opinion. In my experience though, women are far more hung up about variations in the distribution of fat on the female body than men are. Alison Pentland wrote: Perhaps I feel under fire because there are so few women to put our point of view. There are hardly any here, and I think currently none who post as often as you do. It's a side effect of there being more guys in the industry, a site like this, especially in the soapbox, is likely to turn into conversations about the sort of things blokes discuss. Consider it a chance to glimpse into the inner sanctum :P Alison Pentla