Evolution works in mysterious ways

Lost User

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Newton was stating fundamental universal laws describing reality. Evolutionists, despite recent denials here, are looking for an explanation of observable facts within the framework of the known laws.

Newton created a model that explains observed events, so that the model can be used later to understand/predict behavior in other situations. And it does not completely explain *any* situation. The model works in most cases because the other forces are very small to make a difference in the end result. The simplest model that can be used in any situation is preferred. Evolution is also trying to do the same - create a model to explain the state of life (from microbes to mammals). A set of theories that essentially said that mutations over a large period of time may be responsible. This may be right; may be wrong. But, I will accept it as the current scientific model until the broad scientific community accepts that the model is flawed beyond usefulness.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

I have no desire or need to 'prove the theory of creation', firstly as for the reasons we agree it connot be proved and secondly becuase it is not a theory.

There must be other theories that have the same level of problems that theory of evolution has, and still does not get your attention. A lot of attention is being trained on evolution just because it is perceived as a threat to religion in some way. I don't accept that it has nothing to do with Genesis. You, despite not being a biologist, are interested in *disproving* a theory that is accepted now. I think (and hope) that you do not attempt to discredit theories in other areas of science (without having the knowledge and expertise). Even graduates and post-graduates do not go around discrediting theories without research. A similar level of insecurity was shown by the Church regarding Physics in the time of Galileo.

Lost User

CataclysmicQuantum wrote:

Why not? You get extras when you do.

To you perhaps. Slurping my own come has never appealed to me though.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Matthew Faithfull

Even you could pick the consistent from the inconsistent, or perhaps not. I have had the privellege of good teaching over the years from some of the best pastors in the UK. I'm told told my current pastor has written around 100 books, most of them probably way over my head. I'd love to learn ancient Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic but I'm afraid languages are not my thing. What you understand when you read enough scripture is that it's overall theme is the nature and character of God. Now remeber this is the same God that I know so it's like reading about a good friend. Not difficult to spot any glaring errors.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

CataclysmicQuantum

Nasty, how dare you say something like that in a respected website? Whats wrong with you?

The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.

Paul Watson

I believe we have in ourselves and in our collective all that we need to be everything we can be. I do not need to be spoken through or be graced by a higher power to do good and live life to its full. I am only sorry that many fellow humans feel they must hear the word of god before they are able to reach their full potential. You don't need god to be good, Matthew. If I were god I'd be happier to see what I have created not need me.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

you are incapable of believing in God without his intervention to enable you to do so but that's by the way.

Incapable is a strong word. Give me some drugs or bring me up in a strong Christian family and I'd probably believe. I have the capabilities to believe in pink elephants orbiting Uranus. It is true though that I don't believe in things that have not made a case for existence. I see a universe without the touch of god in it.

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

Lost User

So, hows the fat old bitch? Still claims to be your mother?

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

CataclysmicQuantum

She is not getting any.

The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.

Lost User

CataclysmicQuantum wrote:

She is not getting any.

Even off you? I thought that was normal in trailer parks?

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Oakman

Thanks for contacting me. Please hold your breath until I get back to you.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

CataclysmicQuantum

fat_boy wrote:

Even off you? I thought that was normal in trailer parks?

It is, but I ain't no trailer park person. I need a girl young, at least not fat, good looking.

The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.

Oakman

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Not difficult to spot any glaring errors

So there are errors? But you are smart enough to spot every one?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Matthew Faithfull

Thomas George wrote:

I will accept it as the current scientific model until the broad scientific community accepts that the model is flawed beyond usefulness.

Unfortunately much of that broad 'scientific' community now believes in this theory as a matter of religious principle and will not abandon it in the face of mere contradictory evidence.

Thomas George wrote:

There must be other theories that have the same level of problems that theory of evolution has,

There are and where I come accross them I stick the boot in just as vigorously. Basic Cosmology for example is entirely based on circular reasoning, redering it bunkum. Geology where it clings to Lyle's dictum is an aggregation of error based on error. I'm not picky believe me.

Thomas George wrote:

it is perceived as a threat to religion in some way.

No, evolution is not a threat to religion it is a threat to science and to society as I've explained in previous threads. The broken thinking and false view of humanity it engenders is destructive in a extraordinarily far reaching set of fields.

Thomas George wrote:

You, despite not being a biologist, are interested in *disproving* a theory that is accepted now.

Precisely because the scientists who should be doing so are not, they are accepting the theory as fact and relying on it, resulting in bad science.

Thomas George wrote:

Even graduates and post-graduates do not go around discrediting theories without research.

No they go around discrediting theories based on research, often other peoples research, and argument as I have tried to do.

Thomas George wrote:

A similar level of insecurity was shown by the Church regarding Physics in the time of Galileo.

There is no insecurity here as I've said how can a false, failed, discredited theory be a threat to the Church? The case of Galileo is sad and oft repreated but utterly irrelevant. It was power and politics plain and simple and nothing to do with the the Church, only a political organisation set up by and filled with fallable men, i.e. the Vatican.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

Evolution works in mysterious ways

Yeah, it produced Henize for christs sake.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Oakman

Thomas George wrote:

A similar level of insecurity was shown by the Church regarding Physics in the time of Galileo.

Interesting. You brought to mind an image of someone in the future apologizing to Darwin in much the same way that the Pope recently apologised to Galileo

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Matthew Faithfull

Paul Watson wrote:

You don't need god to be good, Matthew.

You precisely and definitively do need God to be good. All good proceeds from God and without him there is no good.

Paul Watson wrote:

Incapable is a strong word.

And not used lightly. It is precisely what I meant.

Paul Watson wrote:

I see a universe without the touch of god in it.

Perhaps because you need to know God to recognise his touch. Fortunately he has made that possible.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Oakman

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

filled with fallable men

Unlike you and your church?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Lost User

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

B doesn't win 500 times more than A so once again your math is wrong. By the time B has gone on two generations it's indestinguishable in terms of superiority from A because of it's accumulated damage. You do the math, Presto extinction!

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Say A wins 50% of the time and B wins 100% of the time. A(t) = A(t-1) + (0.5)A(t-1), A(0) = 500 B(t) = B(t-1) + (1)B(t-1), B(0) = 1 A[0] = 500, B[0] = 1; Solve for B(t) = A(t). Hell, in only 200 generations (and bacteria have a generation time of about 8 hours), there's nearly twice as many B as A. So that's about 2 months. And this is a pretty simple calculation. Let's see yours - go ahead, factor in death rates, food availability, all that stuff. Me? I just look at the papers that have done it already. Stop talking about things you have no idea about.

- F

Matthew Faithfull

Oakman wrote:

So there are errors?

No there are not, none that I can spot, or those much cleverer and more knowledgable than myself. Anyway it would be better to discuss what's in the book than if the number of queryable translations is 4 or 5 or things no one understands is 10 or 11. How much have you read?

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Matthew Faithfull

Would be slightly confusing considering Darwin changed his mind and admitted his theory was wrong during his lifetime. Perhaps a future Pope could apologise to Darwin for all the bad science done since with his name attached to it but I can't quite see why it would be the Pope doing the apologising?

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Paul Watson

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

You precisely and definitively do need God to be good. All good proceeds from God and without him there is no good.

Horribly arrogant. How do you expect to do good amongst the people when you think so little of the people?

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Fortunately he has made that possible.

Through?

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.