Evolution works in mysterious ways

Matthew Faithfull

Would be slightly confusing considering Darwin changed his mind and admitted his theory was wrong during his lifetime. Perhaps a future Pope could apologise to Darwin for all the bad science done since with his name attached to it but I can't quite see why it would be the Pope doing the apologising?

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Paul Watson

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

You precisely and definitively do need God to be good. All good proceeds from God and without him there is no good.

Horribly arrogant. How do you expect to do good amongst the people when you think so little of the people?

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Fortunately he has made that possible.

Through?

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

Ilion

:zzz:

Lost User

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

What is this 'de-evolution' thing you keep talking about?

The process that gave rise to Henize I suspect.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Matthew Faithfull

The Church is and always will be full of fallable human beings. The difference that is hard to get accross to non-believers is that the Church is not the human institution which owns buildings and elects Popes and collects riches and pays taxes and the rest. The Roman Catholic church, centered in the Vatican is an example of one such institution but that is not the Church. The Church is defined as the people of God, those he has redeemed from every tribe and tounge and nation. Only God gets to say who is in the Church and who is not and its mapping onto and relation to human organisations is a complex and tricky affair. Their are many churches but only one Church. Sometimes you get a church that doesn't contain very much of the Church at all and bad things tend to result, from Waco to the Spanish Inquisition. The Church does not do such things though some genuine believers may get mixed up in them.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Matthew Faithfull

Fisticuffs wrote:

Stop talking about things you have no idea about.

I suggest you follow your own advice, at least until you can handle basic addition and percentages. :rolleyes:

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Lost User

There is only one way to discredit any scientific theory. Do research, and publish findings in a reputed journal. I think that acceptance of broader scientific community is essential. Garnering public opinion has no bearing on this.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

how can a false, failed, discredited theory be a threat to the Church?

If the broad scientific community does not accept that, it is neither failed nor discredited from a scientific view point. I see this current bout of "evolution versus creation" as a war to get them young. The whole issue stems from the fact that those supporting creation want it (or at least Intelligent Design) to be taught as science. There is a lot of insecurity in religion these days. Things like the Da Vinci Code has attracted too much negative attention from the Church. Harry Potter also was considered a problem. You would also accept that none of these had any potential to challenge the mass following of Christianity, and did not deserve the attention showered on it.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

It was power and politics plain and simple and nothing to do with the the Church, only a political organisation set up by and filled with fallable men, i.e. the Vatican.

which is the primary problem. True religious belief can only be personal, not organized. The current issues are also about power and politics, at least in my eyes.

Al Beback

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Yes, God, who's standard is perfection, examined what he had made and declared that it was good.

Yeah, good. Mosquitoes are great. Diseases are wonderful. Tornadoes are cool. Adam and Eve's children having incest is neat. But people's ability to be coerced into believing in magic tops them all.

- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus

Matthew Faithfull

Paul Watson wrote:

Horribly arrogant. How do you expect to do good amongst the people when you think so little of the people?

Has nothing to do with what I think. 'All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God'. That includes me and you.

Paul Watson wrote:

Through?

Through the incarnation, life, sacraficial death, glorious resurection and eternal life of his son Jesus Christ. In Christ God is revealed and we can know him. Through his atoning death all the sin which stands between us and God can be removed, he has taken it on himself. Our relationship with God can be restored and he can place his spirit in us as guide, comforter and deposit gaurenteeing our eternal inheritance. I don't expect much of that to make sense to you but there it is. Ask yourself the question 'Who is Jesus Christ?' When you've got that answer the rest may follow.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Matthew Faithfull

Thomas George wrote:

True religious belief can only be personal, not organized.

Agreed. I do not agree with intelligent desing being taught as science because it is not falsifiable. Being taught as fact simply because it is I have no problem with. As to the rest I ask you this, 'with what falsehood would you challenge the ultimate truth'? When you look at it like that you see that there is no such things as a viable threat to the Church, only to the stumbling unbelief of the wavering masses who do not really believe but like to pretend that they are the same as those who do.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Paul Watson

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Who is Jesus Christ?

He was a good man who lived roughly 2008 years ago. He tried to help people live good lives and lived as good as life as he could. Sadly he was either used by the Church to promote its teachings or in his senility took on dellusions of grandeur. Either way he was just a man. As for the rest of your post my dislike of your faith is summed up by quoting "Has nothing to do with what I think." You should think for yourself.

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

Matthew Faithfull

I think you should read Genesis 3 before critisizing the sate of a once perfect creation brought about by our own kind. One point to note, incest was not forbidden in the beggining, no doubt as it carried no dangers for those with such superior genes. Later on after death and decay had entered the world it was banned.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Lost User

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

I suggest you follow your own advice, at least until you can handle basic addition and percentages.

Uh huh. Show me your numbers, little bitch, or STFU.

- F

Matthew Faithfull

Paul Watson wrote:

Either way he was just a man.

Sadly while you remain wrong about that you are without reason for hope.

Paul Watson wrote:

You should think for yourself.

Is that the beggings of a religous creed I see before me? :laugh: Anyway I have thought for myself and still do and have found one whose thinking is better than mine and whose gentle guidance greatly improves my thinking when I listen to it. I hope you will also turn to him and find what I have found. If I can say with Paul, 'It is no longer I that live but Christ living in me' and 'for me to live is Christ and to die is gain' then I will be all that I can be and more and better than any human can achieve unaided. That is my choice, freely made.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Paul Watson

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

you are without reason for hope.

Jesus wouldn't like that. He was all about hope.

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

Matthew Faithfull

Paul Watson wrote:

He was all about hope.

Indeed, he was and is the hope and if you do not know him you do not have reason to hope. He said 'I am the way, the truth and the life.' Was he telling the truth or was he mad, saying this publically in a society where such a claim was pretty certain to get you executed? I'm afraid saying he was good man, just a good man doesn't cut it. He was either who he said he was or he was stark raving bonkers. I know which I believe.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Ilion

Thomas George wrote:

There is only one way to discredit any scientific theory. Do research, and publish findings in a reputed journal. I think that acceptance of broader scientific community is essential. Garnering public opinion has no bearing on this.

One can also discredit a "sceintific" "theory" via *reason* You "Science" worshippers are such a hoot!

Paul Watson

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

He was either who he said he was or he was stark raving bonkers.

Does this mean you believe in the literal truth of the Bible? I just want to see what kind of Christian I am talking to hear. I can tolerate the Jesus kind but have great difficulty respecting those who treat the Bible as modern day literal truth.

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

Ilion

leckey wrote:

No, I prefer someone who is unbiased.

You're such a hoot! More importantly, you don't even know what you mean when you claim "I would maybe listen to someone who claims evolution never happened if they were atheist" because you don't know what you mean by "evolution."

Oakman

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

No there are not, none that I can spot,

You just said there were :confused: Do I need to go back and quote you again?

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

How much have you read?

New Testament: 3 times, 2 KJV 1 RSV; Old testament 1 KJV. I am licensed as a Lay Preacher by the Methodist Church - though I haven't set my foot inside of one for many a year. Now that I have told you how big mine is, how about answering the question? ;)

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