Evolution works in mysterious ways

73Zeppelin

What contradiction? Where is the evidence it's wrong? Where is the evidence for your view? You spout tonnes of words, but they're meaningless.

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

I'm curious to know if platypus DNA proves evolution to anyone who doesn't already believe in evolution

I'm not sure that belief enters into it. The Theory is pretty well spelled out. If, by using it, one is able to more thoroughly understand what happened to create the biosphere as it is today and how/why it changed from what was present two hundred thousand years ago then it is a tool to be used. If stating that the world was created in 4004 BC, complete with aged fossils, and that "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown." provides a methodology by which the biosphere can be understood, then we need to adopt this alternate viewpoint. So far, I've seen no evidence that Evolution doesn't explain the world better than Bishop Usher, ymmv as, obviously, does Mr. Faithful's

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Matthew Faithfull

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

A bacterium doesn't 'lose' information, it mutates randomly.

Fundamental miunderstanding alert. To mutate randomly IS to loose infomration where you have a sufficient information density. All organisms more complex than a bacterium, a no dount some bateria have sufficient information density to be 'unevolvable' by random mutation.

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

The sun comes into it,

No it does not because it doesn't add information.

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

Wait...did you just say that the sun ISN'T highly powered?

No, I said it was not involved and there was no equivalent source in terms of information, implying that the sun IS highly powered as it clearly is relative to the energy differentials in our bioshpere. :)

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Oakman

Wrong, but thanks for playing. As a parting gift, we're giving you a brand-new all-aluminum foil beanie!!!

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Matthew Faithfull

The evidence for my view is the very evidence you yourself could link to for your view if you were capable of anything other than carping. My words mean what they say, how about yours?

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

soap brain

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Fundamental miunderstanding alert. To mutate randomly IS to loose infomration where you have a sufficient information density. All organisms more complex than a bacterium, a no dount some bateria have sufficient information density to be 'unevolvable' by random mutation.

No it isn't. Maybe you don't understand the word 'random'. Probably the word 'mutate' as well.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

No it does not because it doesn't add information.

It adds ENERGY, which is used to build DNA, RNA, proteins, etc.

Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.

soap brain

Wow, creepy, he's turning into Ilion...

Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.

Oakman

73Zeppelin wrote:

Faithfull, lives in his own private fantasy world

While it's hard to understand exactly what he's babbling about, I think he's claiming that the neaderthals were a higher life form and we have devolved from them. Hard to think of Adam and Eve with single eyebrows, unbridged noses, and weak chins.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

To mutate randomly IS to loose infomration where you have a sufficient information density. All organisms more complex than a bacterium, a no dount some bateria have sufficient information density to be 'unevolvable' by random mutation.

Look at this complete nonsense. What is "information" in your opinion? Does white noise contain information? What is "information density"? How have you measured information density in order to arrive at the above conclusions. What is "sufficient information density"? Why does "information density" restrict "unevolvability"? Through what mechanism is that enforced? You're a total nutter. Is it any wonder I have no patience for you and the other idiot?

Matthew Faithfull

Well at least you try to debate before resorting to insults and random crap, a minor improvement on some people but pathetic never the less.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

73Zeppelin

I have no clue what he's babbling about. It only makes sense to him in the same way that grunts and growls make sense to people raised by wolves.

Matthew Faithfull

Zepplin turning into Ilion :laugh: The 2 sides of unreason I suppose. I'm sure they actually have much more in common than either would like to admit; Bright, angry, self important, utterly convinced of their own superiority of resonsing but not actually able to sustain an argument for more than 2 steps wihtout loosing their cool. Just you're average smart 7 years olds I suppose ;)

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

My words mean what they say, how about yours?

Yes, your words mean just that: nothing. Look, I don't care if you believe in God, the Great Turtle, the Garden Gnomes or the three Elves that make the popping sound in your Rice Krispies. Just stop pretending you have some kind of Magical Mystical Evidence (TM) that refutes the established fact that species evolve. It's irritating and sinks you to the level of the Great Idiot that I was forced to deal with the other day. Maybe you know the politics of the UKIP, maybe you've read the Bible, fine. What you have no understanding of is the theory of evolution. Just admit it and we can move on, or I can add you the list of morons on here that aren't worth acknowledging.

soap brain

Um, no, YOU'RE turning into Ilion. You're beginning to sound exactly like him. 73Zeppelin, on the other hand, is completely reasonable, and mostly in his right mind! :laugh:

Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Zepplin turning into Ilion

He meant you. I see you have the same reading comprehension/misrepresentation problem as Idiot. What is it with you fundies and your affinity for lies?

Oakman

Yes, I find it hard to give up on folks, even when their head has twisted all the way around and they're vomitting pea soup.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Christian Graus

Well, you're presenting an interesting dichotomy. What if not everyone who doesn't believe 100% in evolution believes in a young earth ? ( The Bible doesn't actually say that, BTW ).

Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )

Matthew Faithfull

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

Maybe you don't understand the word 'random'

Oh believe me I understand it very well, that's the whole point, random, undirected, arbitrary, stochastic, probabalistic and therefore destructive to a non random, useful, structured information set.

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

It adds ENERGY, which is used to build DNA, RNA, proteins, etc.

Which does not add information only increases the rate at which it is copied and thereby damaged, increase the solar activity and you get more rapid de-evolution :) Instead of assuming I don't understand basic scientific terms becuase that's easy, you should perhaps, as I said, set aside some time in your busy life to find out for yourself whether evolution is scientific or a dangerous pseudo religious delusion. ( Hint: asking someone subject to the delusion isn't going to teach you anything, try going about it scientifically :-D )

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Matthew Faithfull

73Zeppelin wrote:

Is it any wonder I have no patience for you and the other idiot?

No, but that's an issue you need to deal with. Patience is a hard lesson so be careful what you ask for.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Oh believe me I understand it very well, that's the whole point, random, undirected, arbitrary, stochastic, probabalistic and therefore destructive to a non random, useful, structured information set.

Oh, you put words side by side alright. Too bad they don't mean anything. You wouldn't know a stochastic process if it hit you in the face. Anyways, interesting paragraph but the Law of Large Numbers and the Central Limit theorem prove you're wrong. Try harder next time.