Wired article
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Christian Graus wrote: Do I have the right to tell a rape victim that they cannot have an abortion ? No. I suppose that is the only point on which you and I disagree. As a society we tell people how to behave all the time. If society arbitrarily decides that life begins at conception, than we certainly have the right to require a rape victim to protect the life they carry (I would vote agaisnt any candidate supporting such a law, but would support the law if it were passed). If on the other hand society arbitrarily decides that human life begins with the first heart beat, than the rape victim is free to do as they please until that time. Christian Graus wrote: I don't think that an abortion is the same as killing a live baby though. But what if you did believe so? That is my question. What is the moral obligation of those who do believe so? If I believed that my coffee cup were a human life, would I not be morally obligated to defend it against those who would destroy it? I'm not trying to be contrary or argumentative here. It is just a question which I think has deep philosophical relevance. It is a quandry for me. I don't know the answer. "Human imagination has been sculpted by the universe within which it was born" Hmmmm...
Reverend Stan wrote: What is the moral obligation of those who do believe so? If I believed that my coffee cup were a human life, would I not be morally obligated to defend it against those who would destroy it? That is why I said abortion walks the edge of being a matter for the individual more than the society. Because we really do not know the answer - at what point is human life defined ? The inability to PROVE the point one way or the other is what makes this a sticky issue. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: they watch the 24-7 coverage on CNN and forget about the problems within their own nation for a short time. What problems would that be? The only problem I have with Bush is that he did not obliterate every last vestage of Islamic civilization when he had the chance. "Human imagination has been sculpted by the universe within which it was born" Hmmmm...
Reverend Stan wrote: The only problem I have with Bush is that he did not obliterate every last vestage of Islamic civilization when he had the chance. Stan, in the past I have looked on your posts and thought that you were a very intelligent person, but a comment like this seems so out of character. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
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Reverend Stan wrote: What is the moral obligation of those who do believe so? If I believed that my coffee cup were a human life, would I not be morally obligated to defend it against those who would destroy it? That is why I said abortion walks the edge of being a matter for the individual more than the society. Because we really do not know the answer - at what point is human life defined ? The inability to PROVE the point one way or the other is what makes this a sticky issue. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
Christian Graus wrote: Because we really do not know the answer - at what point is human life defined ? The inability to PROVE the point one way or the other is what makes this a sticky issue. Yes, that really seems to be the main problem. Couldn't we deduct it from the other way around?, I do not know about elsewhere, but in Denmark you are considered Dead when the brain stops function. At that point it is legal to reuse his/her organs if the diseased and/or the relatives has agreed to donate them. At what point is it then possible to detect brain waves?. "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!" -Rincewind
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Colin Davies wrote: not that I'm calling this an American only issue. C'mon Colin, Mike uses the group filters to find people refering to the US in any way, so he can complain about people attacking ze Fatherland. Christian come on all you MS suckups, defend your sugar-daddy now. - Chris Losinger - 11/07/2002
Christian Graus wrote: C'mon Colin, Mike uses the group filters to find people refering to the US in any way, so he can complain about people attacking ze Fatherland. Grow up.
Mike Mullikin - I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals. Sir Winston Churchill
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Reverend Stan wrote: The only problem I have with Bush is that he did not obliterate every last vestage of Islamic civilization when he had the chance. Stan, in the past I have looked on your posts and thought that you were a very intelligent person, but a comment like this seems so out of character. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
Unfortunantly, Roger, there is not an intelligent solution to every problem. Fortunantly for me, the violent American redneck in me is never too far below the surface. I have found that when intelligence fails, violence is usually a good backup. When someone tells me they don't like me and my country and murder 3000 of my countrymen to make their point, I tend to take them seriously. When they justify their actions by appealing to religious zealotry, I believe in demonstrating to them in no uncertain terms precisely who's side God is on. When I have reason to believe that the attitude which prompted those feelings are wide spread within a society that is promoting values diametrically opposed to those I live by, I believe that the time for thoughtful introspection is over. I believe that Islamic civilization is irredeemably evil. It deserves to be destroyed. It should be destroyed. On 9/11/2001 we had moral justification for doing that, and were too squimish to act. We will pay horribly for that mistake for years to come. "Human imagination has been sculpted by the universe within which it was born" Hmmmm...