The state of U.S. Health Care and our society
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It's just another case of naturalcapital selection. If she couldn't afford to pay her way to faster treatment, she just didn't deserve to live. Right, Stan?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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One incident in one hospital should not indite the entire health care system (any more than one positive incident should be used to bless it).
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That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy. That is preciesly the kind of health care we will all be getting soon.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy. That is preciesly the kind of health care we will all be getting soon.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy.
Most hospitals spend so much of their resources providing care for citizens of Mexico, that it doesn't matter how efficient, or committed the staff is or isn't. Emergency Wards are not supposed to be health clinics for illegals, but it is what the legislatures and courts have turned them into.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Stan Shannon wrote:
That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy.
Most hospitals spend so much of their resources providing care for citizens of Mexico, that it doesn't matter how efficient, or committed the staff is or isn't. Emergency Wards are not supposed to be health clinics for illegals, but it is what the legislatures and courts have turned them into.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Most hospitals spend so much of their our resources providing care for citizens of Mexico
fixed it. for clarification, those resources are funded by: taxes as in county hospitals funded by county wide tax districts -or- cost shifting, whereby folks who go to the hospital and are covered by individual or employer group ealth insurance pay substantially higher costs to cover the illegals. Note, this also drives up the cost of that insurance. of course, Medicare causes the same cost shift because the government mandates a price for a procedure forcing the balance of the cost to those covered by insurance.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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I schedualed an appointment to see the doc tomorrow. I don't have insurance but the lady said its runs from about 70 bucks and its 35% off if you pay up front. I will see if my doc can give me plenty of refills so I wont have to go back.
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Oakman wrote:
Most hospitals spend so much of their our resources providing care for citizens of Mexico
fixed it. for clarification, those resources are funded by: taxes as in county hospitals funded by county wide tax districts -or- cost shifting, whereby folks who go to the hospital and are covered by individual or employer group ealth insurance pay substantially higher costs to cover the illegals. Note, this also drives up the cost of that insurance. of course, Medicare causes the same cost shift because the government mandates a price for a procedure forcing the balance of the cost to those covered by insurance.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Medicare causes the same cost shift because the government mandates a price
Not really, Mike. There's a big difference between a senior citizen discount, even if mandated, and wholesale freeloading by 20 million illegals. My guess is that we could probably afford to handle social security and medicare for the foreseeable future if we'd stop providing free schools, free public amenities and free medical care to people who don't pay taxes and ship half of what they do earn out of the country. Hell, we could probably afford to beat the Asians to the moon, too.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I schedualed an appointment to see the doc tomorrow. I don't have insurance but the lady said its runs from about 70 bucks and its 35% off if you pay up front. I will see if my doc can give me plenty of refills so I wont have to go back.
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Chief Master C# wrote:
I will see if my doc pusher can give me plenty of refills so I wont have to go back.
I fixed that typo for you.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
As long as the prescription is valid I won't complain.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Medicare causes the same cost shift because the government mandates a price
Not really, Mike. There's a big difference between a senior citizen discount, even if mandated, and wholesale freeloading by 20 million illegals. My guess is that we could probably afford to handle social security and medicare for the foreseeable future if we'd stop providing free schools, free public amenities and free medical care to people who don't pay taxes and ship half of what they do earn out of the country. Hell, we could probably afford to beat the Asians to the moon, too.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Hell, we could probably afford to beat the Asians to the moon, too.
I thought you guys had already beaten everyone to the moon, or was that a setup, and this time you are doing it "for real". :laugh: :laugh:
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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Oakman wrote:
Hell, we could probably afford to beat the Asians to the moon, too.
I thought you guys had already beaten everyone to the moon, or was that a setup, and this time you are doing it "for real". :laugh: :laugh:
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
I thought you guys had already beaten everyone to the moon, or was that a setup, and this time you are doing it "for real".
busted!
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy. That is preciesly the kind of health care we will all be getting soon.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy
The fact she lay dead on the floor and no body went to see if she was ok was the result of bureaucracy? I'd say its the result of the "fuck you im ok" attitude.
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It's pretty bad. My wife's deceased uncle was recently in a hospital because of pancreatic cancer and while he was being moved for an exam he was dropped on his head; his neck was broken. The hospital rather than apologizing for the mishap gave my wife's aunt an incredible run-around even trying to get her to sign papers that would excuse them from any blame. Shameful.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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Stan Shannon wrote:
That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy
The fact she lay dead on the floor and no body went to see if she was ok was the result of bureaucracy? I'd say its the result of the "fuck you im ok" attitude.
No, its the result of a bureaucrat saying 'fuck it. Thats not my job'. Bureaucrats might be very responsible in other parts of the world, but American's suck at it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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That is not the result of apathy, it is the natural consequence of bureaucracy. That is preciesly the kind of health care we will all be getting soon.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Not knowing the real reason for this particular case, you haven't answered Joergens question, one that I see central in how a society organizes health care: If she can't afford it, should she still get treatment?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
It's just another case of naturalcapital selection. If she couldn't afford to pay her way to faster treatment, she just didn't deserve to live. Right, Stan?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If she couldn't afford to pay her way to faster treatment, she just didn't deserve to live. Right, Stan?
There exists no legitimate political authority in the US that can force me to provide any sort of care to anyone. I have no political or social duty or obligation to do so. If you wish me to do so, than appeal to my religion, not my politics.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Not knowing the real reason for this particular case, you haven't answered Joergens question, one that I see central in how a society organizes health care: If she can't afford it, should she still get treatment?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
Not knowing the real reason for this particular case, you haven't answered Joergens question, one that I see central in how a society organizes health care: If she can't afford it, should she still get treatment?
I missed it, but have now answered it. Charity to the poor should be an expression of private, individual conscience, not enforced by the state. The former is Jeffersonian, the latter is fascist.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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peterchen wrote:
Not knowing the real reason for this particular case, you haven't answered Joergens question, one that I see central in how a society organizes health care: If she can't afford it, should she still get treatment?
I missed it, but have now answered it. Charity to the poor should be an expression of private, individual conscience, not enforced by the state. The former is Jeffersonian, the latter is fascist.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Charity to the poor - maybe she is filthy rich, but forgot her purse in the other car? Would that be bad luck, then? I guess we can rule out filthy rich people hanging around hospitals waiting for comatose bums to be delivered so they can make a choice if they want to be charitable today. Also, I don't expect nurse collecting some money, or a hospital calling up you in the middle of the night and asking "we have a appendicitis costing $920 for an 18 year old girl from an unfortunate family. Every cent helps!" So, maybe every hospital creates a fund where anyone can donate, and as long as there's money in the fund she's lucky? How much would you, personally, donate to such a fund - every year? Would you agree to mandatory health care insurance of a county? a town? If yes: just because you can move away, or because you think it is ok on a smaller scale? Charity has the nice option that it is local - so it can adjust, and a failure, evil buerocrat or lazy leech, it just costs one life, not millions. But also, it seems to be the one answer to everything again: don't bother me. It doesn't help the doctor who, with $1000 left and two appendicitis patients has to decide who gets appendectomy and who gets some pain killers? Just to note, I don't think charity is the only thing to make that work, but let's discuss it - how would you make that work?
Stan Shannon wrote:
The former is Jeffersonian, the latter is fascist
Nah. The former is tyranny of the healthy over the sick, and the latter is the reverse.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Charity to the poor - maybe she is filthy rich, but forgot her purse in the other car? Would that be bad luck, then? I guess we can rule out filthy rich people hanging around hospitals waiting for comatose bums to be delivered so they can make a choice if they want to be charitable today. Also, I don't expect nurse collecting some money, or a hospital calling up you in the middle of the night and asking "we have a appendicitis costing $920 for an 18 year old girl from an unfortunate family. Every cent helps!" So, maybe every hospital creates a fund where anyone can donate, and as long as there's money in the fund she's lucky? How much would you, personally, donate to such a fund - every year? Would you agree to mandatory health care insurance of a county? a town? If yes: just because you can move away, or because you think it is ok on a smaller scale? Charity has the nice option that it is local - so it can adjust, and a failure, evil buerocrat or lazy leech, it just costs one life, not millions. But also, it seems to be the one answer to everything again: don't bother me. It doesn't help the doctor who, with $1000 left and two appendicitis patients has to decide who gets appendectomy and who gets some pain killers? Just to note, I don't think charity is the only thing to make that work, but let's discuss it - how would you make that work?
Stan Shannon wrote:
The former is Jeffersonian, the latter is fascist
Nah. The former is tyranny of the healthy over the sick, and the latter is the reverse.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighistThere simply is no legitimate argument against the obvious fact that the US government simply has no authority to force US citizens to care for other people's health. If we want it there, all we need to do is to amend the constitution to make the federal government repsonsible for doing so. Problem solved.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.