U.S. Politics...
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I think from an American perspective the big problem is that Europeans seem to believe that they are the intellectual masters of the universe simply because they have all apperently gone through the same process of socialist indoctrination. Europeans appear to harbor some bizarre belief in the inherent supriority of their political idealogies and simply will not tolerate the American POV. To you guys we will always be 'fools' until we submit entirely to your world view. What is odd about all this is that we are a much older and more stable true democracy than any country in Europe (not to imply that we are perfect, far from it). But do we get any respect for that? Hell, no. We have more experience and more success at managing world affairs than any European country has ever managed to achieve. Tell me why I, as an American, should be interested in joining your team? Your countries are places we escaped from. And it is hard to see much imporovement. Your civilization is our cultural nightmare. Show me that you have learned from our example, and join our team. I'm not a real reverend, I just play one on CP.
Reverend Stan wrote: What is odd about all this is that we are a much older and more stable true democracy than any country in Europe (not to imply that we are perfect, far from it). That is so obviously not true, you yourself have implied that you have not so much a Democracy as a Republic. I think I remember something about a certain election not long ago, just to put it in perspective. ;P Reverend Stan wrote: We have more experience and more success at managing world affairs than any European country has ever managed to achieve. More experience?, maybe, more success?, hell no!... But I guess our respective views would be hard to prove, so I don't think any further discussion on that subject would be very constructive. Reverend Stan wrote: Your civilization is our cultural nightmare What do you refer to?. "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!" -Rincewind
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Reverend Stan wrote: What is odd about all this is that we are a much older and more stable true democracy than any country in Europe (not to imply that we are perfect, far from it). That is so obviously not true, you yourself have implied that you have not so much a Democracy as a Republic. I think I remember something about a certain election not long ago, just to put it in perspective. ;P Reverend Stan wrote: We have more experience and more success at managing world affairs than any European country has ever managed to achieve. More experience?, maybe, more success?, hell no!... But I guess our respective views would be hard to prove, so I don't think any further discussion on that subject would be very constructive. Reverend Stan wrote: Your civilization is our cultural nightmare What do you refer to?. "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!" -Rincewind
jan larsen wrote: That is so obviously not true, you yourself have implied that you have not so much a Democracy as a Republic. I think I remember something about a certain election not long ago, just to put it in perspective You are correct to point that out. By "true democracy" I meant to imply a country were all of the governing officials were elected by some kind of a democratic process, republican or otherwise. Even England, in 1776 still had a very powerful, unelected, King in a very real position of power. But obviously, England had democratic processes at work at the time, they just were not quite there yet. Out last election went directly according the principles of our constitution, dispite the Democrat's attempts to circumvent the law. That *was* an example of a republic, not a democracy, at work - the law trumps the mob. jan larsen wrote: More experience?, maybe, more success?, hell no!... But I guess our respective views would be hard to prove, so I don't think any further discussion on that subject would be very constructive Agreed. I simply meant we have avoided the kinds of major world conflagrations which Europeans have historically had a tendency to resort to. jan larsen wrote: What do you refer to?. Europeans civilization has never achieved the American ideal of the individual as an agent responsible for his own welfare. You guys are comfortable with a state of dependency upon political systems which an American would feel oppressed by. You look to your government the way a child looks to its parent. Unfortunantly, we are migrating ever more rapidly in your direction. I just hope we can stop before we get there. I'm not a real reverend, I just play one on CP.
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jan larsen wrote: That is so obviously not true, you yourself have implied that you have not so much a Democracy as a Republic. I think I remember something about a certain election not long ago, just to put it in perspective You are correct to point that out. By "true democracy" I meant to imply a country were all of the governing officials were elected by some kind of a democratic process, republican or otherwise. Even England, in 1776 still had a very powerful, unelected, King in a very real position of power. But obviously, England had democratic processes at work at the time, they just were not quite there yet. Out last election went directly according the principles of our constitution, dispite the Democrat's attempts to circumvent the law. That *was* an example of a republic, not a democracy, at work - the law trumps the mob. jan larsen wrote: More experience?, maybe, more success?, hell no!... But I guess our respective views would be hard to prove, so I don't think any further discussion on that subject would be very constructive Agreed. I simply meant we have avoided the kinds of major world conflagrations which Europeans have historically had a tendency to resort to. jan larsen wrote: What do you refer to?. Europeans civilization has never achieved the American ideal of the individual as an agent responsible for his own welfare. You guys are comfortable with a state of dependency upon political systems which an American would feel oppressed by. You look to your government the way a child looks to its parent. Unfortunantly, we are migrating ever more rapidly in your direction. I just hope we can stop before we get there. I'm not a real reverend, I just play one on CP.
Reverend Stan wrote: Europeans civilization has never achieved the American ideal of the individual as an agent responsible for his own welfare. You guys are comfortable with a state of dependency upon political systems which an American would feel oppressed by. You look to your government the way a child looks to its parent. Unfortunantly, we are migrating ever more rapidly in your direction. I just hope we can stop before we get there. daddy daddy I don't understand (running to the prime minister :) ) But seriously I cannot agree with that. It's true that we have a different social system, but most people *I* know (including myself) would be very embarrassed to use it and would do close to anything to get out of the system. It's a specific breed of people ( you have them too, they're always on Jerry Springer) who tend to try to get the most out of these systems. The advantage of having such a system does not outweigth these problems for me. I can understand that you take a different approach in the US so I am not bothered with that. I only have a little more sympathy for beggars/homeless in the US because here you have really no reason to be a beggar or a homeless, if you go to the right office you can get an appartment and a social security funding, where if you are in the US there is alway a chance of getting unemployed and ending on the street. Regards Rutger