Georgia has won the PR war
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My dear American friend, when it's nearly 3:00 am (local time) most people here in St. Petersburg are normally asleep, instead of refreshing the soapbox page opened in web-browser every minute inpatiently waiting for Mike's reply just in order to give him "1" vote.
Regards, Nikolay
Nikolay Denisov wrote:
instead of refreshing the soapbox page opened in web-browser every minute inpatiently waiting for Mike's reply
Over here in the USA, we get an email notifying us when one of our posts has been answered - are you telling us that doesn't happen in St. Peterburg and the only way you can find out if anyone responds is to refresh the page? Maybe you should move to Moscow. . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I don't think he's looking for justification, but was merely saying "don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house".
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
modified on Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:54 AM
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
but was merely saying "don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house
Well, then certainly the US should not concern itself with Tibet. Germany has no right to speak out about Darfur. Russia cannot complain about Iraq and Serbia should should stop complaining about what happens to ethnic Serbs. And so on, I'm sure you and I could add to the list all day. Indeed, by those lights, there is no country in the world that should speak out -- or act against -- against evil - with the possible exception of Monaco.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia[^] Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia[^]
I am amazed at the number of supposedly adult people in this forum who have felt that what Georgia did justifies what Russia did.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Paul Selormey wrote:
Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia[^]
I am amazed at the number of supposedly adult people in this forum who have felt that what Georgia did justifies what Russia did.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I am amazed that you are amazed.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. Me blog, You read
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I am amazed that you are amazed.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. Me blog, You read
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Nikolay Denisov wrote:
instead of refreshing the soapbox page opened in web-browser every minute inpatiently waiting for Mike's reply
Over here in the USA, we get an email notifying us when one of our posts has been answered - are you telling us that doesn't happen in St. Peterburg and the only way you can find out if anyone responds is to refresh the page? Maybe you should move to Moscow. . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Yeah, I remember that you have some problems with logic, so I am ready to help you understand why it's very unlikely for someone to vote within a minute after the reply was posted when you fully rely on email notifications. Even if we assume that it does not take long for the codeproject server to send a notification and for the notification itself to arrive, we also have to take into account, that typical email client checks for new mail as often as once in a few minutes, not every second. And yes, I have just asked my wife, which is originally from Moscow, and she has confirmed me that people there are normally also asleep when it's 3:00 am outside, even if there is an email notification from the codeproject waiting them in inbox.
Regards, Nikolay
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Yeah, I remember that you have some problems with logic, so I am ready to help you understand why it's very unlikely for someone to vote within a minute after the reply was posted when you fully rely on email notifications. Even if we assume that it does not take long for the codeproject server to send a notification and for the notification itself to arrive, we also have to take into account, that typical email client checks for new mail as often as once in a few minutes, not every second. And yes, I have just asked my wife, which is originally from Moscow, and she has confirmed me that people there are normally also asleep when it's 3:00 am outside, even if there is an email notification from the codeproject waiting them in inbox.
Regards, Nikolay
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Mladen Jankovic wrote:
bombing other civilian objects such as trains, bridges, TV stations, refugee columns, embassies, using cluster bombs to attack civilian parts of cities...
So you think that what NATO did in response to the wholesale genocide going on in your country justifies what Russia did. Amazing.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Your words would probably worth something if only you were smart and objective enough to blame the US for similar actions. Otherwise it's simply cheap rhetoric.
Regards, Nikolay
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I do note than in all of your protestations, you never actually denied 1-voting. Is that some leftover bourgeois morality? :-D
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oh, shit, you caugth me, stranger! Looks like it was me who voted "1" all the time. Shame on me!
Regards, Nikolay
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Your words would probably worth something if only you were smart and objective enough to blame the US for similar actions. Otherwise it's simply cheap rhetoric.
Regards, Nikolay
Nikolay Denisov wrote:
Your words would probably worth something if only you were smart and objective enough to blame the US for similar actions. Otherwise it's simply cheap rhetoric.
My concern about the death of civilians in both South Osettia and Georgia is "simply cheap rhetoric?" Putin couldn't have said it any better.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Nikolay Denisov wrote:
Your words would probably worth something if only you were smart and objective enough to blame the US for similar actions. Otherwise it's simply cheap rhetoric.
My concern about the death of civilians in both South Osettia and Georgia is "simply cheap rhetoric?" Putin couldn't have said it any better.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Seems like you have one-sided concerns...
Regards, Nikolay
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I don't think he's looking for justification, but was merely saying "don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house".
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
modified on Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:54 AM
Exactly
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Seems like you have one-sided concerns...
Regards, Nikolay
Nikolay Denisov wrote:
Seems like you have one-sided concerns...
Perhaps it does - to a Russian. Here's how it "seems" to me. 1. I thought at the time, and think now, that the US/NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was a bad idea. The reports of what the Serbs were doing sickened me, but that kind of behavior appears to be endemic to that part of the world and I didn't think it made sense to try to fix one piece of the problem. As it turned out, all we did was give the Kosovars a chance to get even. 2. I was unhappy beyond belief with the idea the the US was going to conduct a peremptory strike on Iraq. Only the concept of almost functional WMDs justified it at all. I have been a consistent critic of Bush for at least six years for fighting a stupid war, stupidly. As to nation-building - all we did was give the Shia a chance to get even. 3. I find NATO a ridiculously supperannuated organization. What the hell are we doing with Turkey in an alliance supposedly built around the Atlantic Ocean??? It should have been disbanded ten years ago and Europe left to defend itself and manage it's own concerns. That is, after all, what the EU is for, isn't it? It's time they stood up on their own. 4. I find the over-reaction of Russia repugnant and the unprovoked destruction of civilian infrastructure and murder of unarmed civilians after the Georgian army had been defeated and fled to be despicable and the lies told to justify it, disingenuous and a return to the dark days of the USSR. Any questions?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Paul Selormey wrote:
Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia[^]
I am amazed at the number of supposedly adult people in this forum who have felt that what Georgia did justifies what Russia did.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
I am amazed at the number of supposedly adult people in this forum who have felt that what Georgia did justifies what Russia did.
useful idiots - far from a new concept, merely a new generation.[^]
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Nikolay Denisov wrote:
Seems like you have one-sided concerns...
Perhaps it does - to a Russian. Here's how it "seems" to me. 1. I thought at the time, and think now, that the US/NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was a bad idea. The reports of what the Serbs were doing sickened me, but that kind of behavior appears to be endemic to that part of the world and I didn't think it made sense to try to fix one piece of the problem. As it turned out, all we did was give the Kosovars a chance to get even. 2. I was unhappy beyond belief with the idea the the US was going to conduct a peremptory strike on Iraq. Only the concept of almost functional WMDs justified it at all. I have been a consistent critic of Bush for at least six years for fighting a stupid war, stupidly. As to nation-building - all we did was give the Shia a chance to get even. 3. I find NATO a ridiculously supperannuated organization. What the hell are we doing with Turkey in an alliance supposedly built around the Atlantic Ocean??? It should have been disbanded ten years ago and Europe left to defend itself and manage it's own concerns. That is, after all, what the EU is for, isn't it? It's time they stood up on their own. 4. I find the over-reaction of Russia repugnant and the unprovoked destruction of civilian infrastructure and murder of unarmed civilians after the Georgian army had been defeated and fled to be despicable and the lies told to justify it, disingenuous and a return to the dark days of the USSR. Any questions?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
OK, let's just compare points 1 and 4. In 1 you are very concerned whether NATO intervation had any practical meaning. But I see NO concern about how it was made; nothing is said about innocent victims among Serbian civilians, cluster bombs, etc. But as soon as you turn to Georgia, all this CHEAP rhetoric is coming out! Why?
Regards, Nikolay
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OK, let's just compare points 1 and 4. In 1 you are very concerned whether NATO intervation had any practical meaning. But I see NO concern about how it was made; nothing is said about innocent victims among Serbian civilians, cluster bombs, etc. But as soon as you turn to Georgia, all this CHEAP rhetoric is coming out! Why?
Regards, Nikolay
When I said that all we did was give the Kosovars a chance to get even, did you twist that around to mean approbation - or is it just your language problem? Since apparently you don't have any ability to extrapolate, I felt great sympathy for the Serbian civilians that were hit by the bombs. I know what its like and don't wish it on anyone. Since I lived with a girl whose grandparents had come from Serbia, it was more personal to me than it probably was to you. But, Nicolai, since you are so good at dredging up the past, I wonder if you'd like to talk about Chechnya. It appears to me that Putin is trying to pull a repeat. Would you agree? How do you feel about the Chechnyans who were killed, tortured, bombed and made homeless by the thousands? Proud of your country's behavior?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
I am amazed at the number of supposedly adult people in this forum who have felt that what Georgia did justifies what Russia did.
useful idiots - far from a new concept, merely a new generation.[^]
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
far from a new concept, merely a new generation.[^]
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam." ~ Bruce C. Thornton You think he's met Ka?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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When I said that all we did was give the Kosovars a chance to get even, did you twist that around to mean approbation - or is it just your language problem? Since apparently you don't have any ability to extrapolate, I felt great sympathy for the Serbian civilians that were hit by the bombs. I know what its like and don't wish it on anyone. Since I lived with a girl whose grandparents had come from Serbia, it was more personal to me than it probably was to you. But, Nicolai, since you are so good at dredging up the past, I wonder if you'd like to talk about Chechnya. It appears to me that Putin is trying to pull a repeat. Would you agree? How do you feel about the Chechnyans who were killed, tortured, bombed and made homeless by the thousands? Proud of your country's behavior?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
When I said that all we did was give the Kosovars a chance to get even, did you twist that around to mean approbation - or is it just your language problem?
Kosovars should be compared with South Ossetians. And just like Kosovars they simply try to get even with Georgians now. But have I ever said I approve it???
Oakman wrote:
I felt great sympathy for the Serbian civilians that were hit by the bombs.
Hey, don't you intentionally pretend not to understand what I am talking about? I did not ask whether you feel any sympathy for Serbs hit by NATO bombs. I did ask why the hell you do NOT blame Americans for that bombs? Why don't you say something like: "Oh, damn bloody Americans! They rolled in with overwhelming force! They killed innocent civilians there! They bombed refugees! Mr Bush is a thug! He must pay for this!" Where all this emotional loud words that you so like to use when it regards Russia?
Oakman wrote:
But, Nicolai, since you are so good at dredging up the past, I wonder if you'd like to talk about Chechnya. It appears to me that Putin is trying to pull a repeat. Would you agree? How do you feel about the Chechnyans who were killed, tortured, bombed and made homeless by the thousands? Proud of your country's behavior?
Not a problem, my fellow! I DO blame the Russian government for the war in Chechnya. I DO blame Mr Yeltsin, who was so loved by the West, for the First and most bloody Chechnya war. I DO blame Mr Putin for the Second Chechnya war. And I am NOT proud of Russia's behavior in Chechnya by any means. Still any questions?
Regards, Nikolay
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Oakman wrote:
When I said that all we did was give the Kosovars a chance to get even, did you twist that around to mean approbation - or is it just your language problem?
Kosovars should be compared with South Ossetians. And just like Kosovars they simply try to get even with Georgians now. But have I ever said I approve it???
Oakman wrote:
I felt great sympathy for the Serbian civilians that were hit by the bombs.
Hey, don't you intentionally pretend not to understand what I am talking about? I did not ask whether you feel any sympathy for Serbs hit by NATO bombs. I did ask why the hell you do NOT blame Americans for that bombs? Why don't you say something like: "Oh, damn bloody Americans! They rolled in with overwhelming force! They killed innocent civilians there! They bombed refugees! Mr Bush is a thug! He must pay for this!" Where all this emotional loud words that you so like to use when it regards Russia?
Oakman wrote:
But, Nicolai, since you are so good at dredging up the past, I wonder if you'd like to talk about Chechnya. It appears to me that Putin is trying to pull a repeat. Would you agree? How do you feel about the Chechnyans who were killed, tortured, bombed and made homeless by the thousands? Proud of your country's behavior?
Not a problem, my fellow! I DO blame the Russian government for the war in Chechnya. I DO blame Mr Yeltsin, who was so loved by the West, for the First and most bloody Chechnya war. I DO blame Mr Putin for the Second Chechnya war. And I am NOT proud of Russia's behavior in Chechnya by any means. Still any questions?
Regards, Nikolay
Nikolay Denisov wrote:
Why don't you say something like: "Oh, damn bloody Americans! They rolled in with overwhelming force! They killed innocent civilians there! They bombed refugees! Mr Bush is a thug! He must pay for this!"
Well: the main reason I don't, is they never targeted civilians. That there were some killed, I have no doubt. Just as I have no doubt that the Serbs killed thousands and thousands of Kosovars. Oh by the way: At the time Clinton was president. George Bush was govenor of Texas. :laugh:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Nikolay Denisov wrote:
Why don't you say something like: "Oh, damn bloody Americans! They rolled in with overwhelming force! They killed innocent civilians there! They bombed refugees! Mr Bush is a thug! He must pay for this!"
Well: the main reason I don't, is they never targeted civilians. That there were some killed, I have no doubt. Just as I have no doubt that the Serbs killed thousands and thousands of Kosovars. Oh by the way: At the time Clinton was president. George Bush was govenor of Texas. :laugh:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Well: the main reason I don't, is they never targeted civilians. That there were some killed, I have no doubt.
Do you really believe that the Russian troops were ordered to kill civilians in Georgia??? Give me a break!
Oakman wrote:
Just as I have no doubt that the Serbs killed thousands and thousands of Kosovars.
Like there is no doubt that hundreds and hundreds of South Ossetian civilians were killed in Tskhinvali along with a dozen of Russian peacekeepers. So what?
Oakman wrote:
Oh by the way: At the time Clinton was president. George Bush was govenor of Texas.
You are right. They both are thugs anyway. :)
Regards, Nikolay