Arrrgghhh - VB Programmers
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Shog9 wrote:
other than to say you can expect that before too long we'll be referring to C# programmers in the same sort of terms we previously reserved for those of the VB persuasion.
Yeah I'm not happy about the dumbing-down of tools - but there is an up side to it... things get done faster. I wonder how long it will be before we're in a "Space Cowboys" situation, where there's only a few people left in the world who really know how the system works, and when the base stuff starts failing, we'll be hosed. I noticed the other day that my Vista machine seems to be still starting up from a DOS shell??? Have we really not thought of a better way to bootstrap an OS since 1981? I know Apple has solved this issue...
"Quality Software since 1983!"
See my personal web site for photos, info, and a really weird blog
Want to fly model aircraft? Read my beginner site to find out how!Jasmine2501 wrote:
I know Apple has solved this issue
But Apple is already in a Space Cowboys world. Partially because they keep rewriting the OS from scratch. Now that they are jumping to Intel chips how many developers are going to want to follow?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
However, the concept that all VB programmers are sloppy coders or all black men have big -- noses, or all Chinese are intellectual property thiefs or all Southerners have IQs of less than 100, or all C++ programmers think as slowly as they code is just plain false.
Absolutely, and i wouldn't think of considering you an intellectually-lazy, ham-fisted programmer simply because you've admitted to using VB. OTOH, i'll likely never have to work with your code, so adding your traits to my mental database of "VB Programmers" isn't particularly useful. To date, the only VB programmer i've met face to face who i wouldn't consider borderline incompetent is the guy who taught me the language... and i never actually worked with him either. To put it in Soapbox terms... i've met more peaceful muslims than careful VB Programmers. :rolleyes:
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Well, all VB programmers have big -- noses. All C++ programmers have is pocket protectors. ;P
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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:-D Yes, with... pens... this big, our pockets certainly need protecting. :rolleyes:
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
APU: So what - it runs just fine...
You are saying he never saw "File 'pagename.aspx.vb' was not found"? If so, it has nothing to do with VB and everything to do with the quality of your company's tech interviews.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
You seem to know an awful lot about VB there, chief.... :suss:
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
No, it's about the attitude that VB fosters.
Bullshit. I have known VB programmers - Rocky Lhotka for example - who are superb programmers. Deborah Kurata - who was doing full-fledged objects with VB6 - these guys write tight, maintainable, elegant code and to claim that because they do it in VB rather than the only language you are comfortable in, it somehow is less impressive than it would be if you did it, demonstrates your myopia and arrogance, not their lack of skill. I'm pretty fluent in both C# and VB.Net and my standards don't change depending on which language I program in. I find the concept ludicrous.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
pretty fluent in both C# and VB.Net and my standards don't change depending on which language I program in
Same here, excellent point. It really is not the language, but the person programming in the language. I've seen good and bad VB/VB.NET, as well as the same for C/C++/C# and Java. I try to stay out of language wars because they are rather pointless.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Aaaargh - the pain - I AGREE with Oakman! I feel so dirty lol - have a 5
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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You seem to know an awful lot about VB there, chief.... :suss:
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
73Zeppelin wrote:
You seem to know an awful lot about VB there, chief....
You bet. After I got out of gaming I ended up contracting to do business software, because - as Willy Horton said - that's where the money was. Contractors are hired guns. As far as I was concerned, pay me enough and I'll write your app in PowerBuilder or in Informix-4GL. (As a matter of fact, I did.) I really don't give a damn about the language and figure that anyone who spends a lot of time obsessing over it is either working in Assembly or is a bit of a poseur. When .NET came along it was either VB or C#. Basically, they're plug in replacements for each other, so I transitioned to both. I admit - when I do my own stuff these days, I stick to C#. But it's no biggie.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Shog9 wrote:
our pockets certainly need protecting
Of course they do, after all when the ink leaks out, you don't want the stain on your clothes for your mother to have to try to get it out.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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ME: Dude, why did you register a code-behind page that doesn't exist? APU: Uh... what? ME: Well, you put the "codebehind" attribute in the page directive and pointed it to a file that doesn't exist? APU: So? ME: It causes a compilation error. APU: A what? ME: A compilation error - and it's sloppy coding! APU: So what - it runs just fine... ME: But... oh never mind, I'll fix it.
"Quality Software since 1983!"
See my personal web site for photos, info, and a really weird blog
Want to fly model aircraft? Read my beginner site to find out how!Jasmine2501 wrote:
and it's sloppy coding!
Maybe the person you were talking to was having trouble understanding your sloppy English.
Mark Brock "We're definitely not going to make a G or a PG version of this. It's not PillowfightCraft." -- Chris Metzen Click here to view my blog
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73Zeppelin wrote:
You seem to know an awful lot about VB there, chief....
You bet. After I got out of gaming I ended up contracting to do business software, because - as Willy Horton said - that's where the money was. Contractors are hired guns. As far as I was concerned, pay me enough and I'll write your app in PowerBuilder or in Informix-4GL. (As a matter of fact, I did.) I really don't give a damn about the language and figure that anyone who spends a lot of time obsessing over it is either working in Assembly or is a bit of a poseur. When .NET came along it was either VB or C#. Basically, they're plug in replacements for each other, so I transitioned to both. I admit - when I do my own stuff these days, I stick to C#. But it's no biggie.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
After I got out of gaming
You were involved with the gaming industry?
Mark Brock "We're definitely not going to make a G or a PG version of this. It's not PillowfightCraft." -- Chris Metzen Click here to view my blog
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Oakman wrote:
After I got out of gaming
You were involved with the gaming industry?
Mark Brock "We're definitely not going to make a G or a PG version of this. It's not PillowfightCraft." -- Chris Metzen Click here to view my blog
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
and it's sloppy coding!
Maybe the person you were talking to was having trouble understanding your sloppy English.
Mark Brock "We're definitely not going to make a G or a PG version of this. It's not PillowfightCraft." -- Chris Metzen Click here to view my blog
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MarkBrock wrote:
You were involved with the gaming industry
Back in the days when things were much more text-based, yep.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Woah! cool! I've got a lot of respect for game programmers.
Mark Brock "We're definitely not going to make a G or a PG version of this. It's not PillowfightCraft." -- Chris Metzen Click here to view my blog
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
No, it's about the attitude that VB fosters.
Bullshit. I have known VB programmers - Rocky Lhotka for example - who are superb programmers. Deborah Kurata - who was doing full-fledged objects with VB6 - these guys write tight, maintainable, elegant code and to claim that because they do it in VB rather than the only language you are comfortable in, it somehow is less impressive than it would be if you did it, demonstrates your myopia and arrogance, not their lack of skill. I'm pretty fluent in both C# and VB.Net and my standards don't change depending on which language I program in. I find the concept ludicrous.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Jasmine2501: No, it's about the attitude that VB fosters. DryRot: bullsh*t. I have known VB programmers ... who are superb programmers.
You're such an ass, DryRot; you love to misrepresent others. Would you cease to exist if you ever behaved honestly?
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
I have been doing this stuff for 25 years
Got me beat. I started in '84
Jasmine2501 wrote:
I'm just frustrated with the guys I'm working with right now.
My last contract job, I worked with a C# team that wrote all their code as if their web app and their SQL 2000 were running locally on each user's desktop. While I was there, they discovered MS's AJAX and were positive it totally eliminated any need for writing javascript. I feel your pain.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
positive it totally eliminated any need for writing javascript
Dam!
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Shog9 wrote:
other than to say you can expect that before too long we'll be referring to C# programmers in the same sort of terms we previously reserved for those of the VB persuasion.
Yeah I'm not happy about the dumbing-down of tools - but there is an up side to it... things get done faster. I wonder how long it will be before we're in a "Space Cowboys" situation, where there's only a few people left in the world who really know how the system works, and when the base stuff starts failing, we'll be hosed. I noticed the other day that my Vista machine seems to be still starting up from a DOS shell??? Have we really not thought of a better way to bootstrap an OS since 1981? I know Apple has solved this issue...
"Quality Software since 1983!"
See my personal web site for photos, info, and a really weird blog
Want to fly model aircraft? Read my beginner site to find out how!Jasmine2501 wrote:
I noticed the other day that my Vista machine seems to be still starting up from a DOS shell
Not BIOS? That was one of the first things I noticed about Vista: the GUI from startup. You can't blame the OS until it starts.
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Woah! cool! I've got a lot of respect for game programmers.
Mark Brock "We're definitely not going to make a G or a PG version of this. It's not PillowfightCraft." -- Chris Metzen Click here to view my blog
MarkBrock wrote:
I've got a lot of respect for game programmers.
Don't start thinking I worked for ID. That kind of graphics-intensive first person shooter wasn't what we were set up to do. Think Zork - only not as successful. But it was a fun eight year ride and we sold out at a nice profit.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface