Solution for terrorism
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I am writing this with deep frustration. I was thinking about a possible solution for terrorism. But i have no clue. Like many here in India,I never had interest to connect terrorism with any religion. Terrorists are traitors of their religion. I guess it's been over 3 years since I started a thread here supporting adnan siddique which got carried away by the other CPians who were reular in soapbox.After that one year before there happened the train bombings in Mumbai which killed over 200 people. That time I realized Adnan's anger towads India. When everybody here in CP were expressing their condolence, adnan was trying to spread his hatred towards India . I stayed in office the whole night replying to his messages and threads(I remember Vikram Punathambekar also said the same thing as eply to one of his comment). He was creating multiple threads over different Indian political Issues. Now moving from adnan,we are in deep sorrow after the mumbai attack. Analyzing the pattern of the attack it is obvious that the terrorists were higly trained and there is obvious support from external forces. India is not saying Pak government directly send these militant. But militants based from Pakistan with the support of forces like al-quida or Dawood Ibrahim must be behind this. There are many evidences to prove this. Police had found the troller that is used by the terrorists totravel from karachi. There are many eyewitnesses who have seen terrorists coming out of the troller. And the whereabouts of the arrested terorrist is the bigger evidence. Now the biggest problem is pakistan is acting as if they have not seen these evidences and asking for evidence. It's clear that Pakistan itself is sufferring heavily by terrorism. It would have been welcomed by everyone, if pakistan showed it's support for a joint investigation. The early signs from Pakistan was encouraging when the Pak president agreed to send the ISI chief to New Delhi but he latter took a U-turn after a discussion with the army. Natuarally we will be sceptical about the pakistani civiian governments control over the army. if everybody is like adnan then how could we sove this issue. They will keep on asking evidences which is as clear as daylight. If the world did not control this monster of terrorism it will distroy many places including pakistan. And one could imagine the situation if it had been got into the hands of the terrorists since pakistan being a nuclear state. We have a feeling that majority of the people are peace loving and they love hu
I understand your frustrated. I don't really understand it myself. I don't know what everyday life is like in Pakistan or India, that would create this. Maybe its like our own US home grown terrorists. At some point, maybe, self loathing or some kind of negetive outlook on their country or life drives people to do these things. Some how life becomes valueless or maybe it always has been to these people. I don't know. It certainly does make someone wonder why or what drives people this way. Maybe it's just me.
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Coming from a region thats blamed continuously for terrorism, I know exactly how you feel. Its terrible when a few aberrants tar the rest. One thing I'll tell you, there are two main causes of terrorism. Injustice and poverty. These two have people running, looking for spiritual advice. Sadly, instead of promoting tolerance and harmony like every religion does, these so called religious leaders start the process of brain washing and lure many a young and susceptible person into their ranks. Of course, these are not the only causes but in this part of the world (developing) its the primal pair. State sanctioned terrorism has a political agenda behind it, if only to undermine the power and stability of neighbors and enemies even in peace time. Some do it as a show of strength. Ultimately, its hateful. If you find an answer, tell me, I'd love to help put it into effect here locally and globally.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
One thing I'll tell you, there are two main causes of terrorism. Injustice and poverty.
That's an easy answer and not necessarily a bad one, but it begs the question of why do some groups suffer injustice and poverty only as long as it takes them to achieve parity (or superiority) with their neighbors (look at India) while others immediately reach for weapons in order to take or destroy what they do not have?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Coming from a region thats blamed continuously for terrorism
We're blaming that on Canada, too? :omg:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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MrPlankton wrote:
Terrorism is a euphemism
To be a little more precise: Terrorism means activities against persons, organizations or property of any nature committed by an individual or individuals acting on behalf of any foreign person or foreign interest (i.e. PETA is not a terrorist organization; but Greenpeace may be): 1. that involve the following or preparation for the following: a. use or threat of force or violence; or b. commission or threat of a dangerous act; or c. commission or threat of an act that interferes with or disrupts an electronic communication, information, or mechanical system; and 2. when at least one of the following applies: a. the effect is to intimidate or coerce a government or the civilian population or any segment thereof, or to disrupt any segment of the economy; or b. it appears that the intent is to intimidate or coerce a government, or further political, ideological, religious, social or economic objectives or to express (or express opposition to) a philosophy or ideology, if 3. The foreign interests are not in a declared state of war with the target government or civilian population. (i.e. the French Resistance and the Viet Cong were not terrorists, even though their methods were remarkably similar to that of terrorists.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
modified on Monday, December 1, 2008 3:46 PM
Oakman wrote:
Terrorism means activities against persons, organizations or property of any nature committed by an individual or individuals acting on behalf of any foreign person or foreign interest (i.e. PETA is not a terrorist organization; but Greenpeace may be):
What foreign interest does Greenpeace have? Did I miss something?
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
One thing I'll tell you, there are two main causes of terrorism. Injustice and poverty.
That's an easy answer and not necessarily a bad one, but it begs the question of why do some groups suffer injustice and poverty only as long as it takes them to achieve parity (or superiority) with their neighbors (look at India) while others immediately reach for weapons in order to take or destroy what they do not have?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Coming from a region thats blamed continuously for terrorism
We're blaming that on Canada, too? :omg:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I think the answer to that question is largely environmental. People don't wake up and decide to commit suicide, they are taught those attitudes. I also think that at least part of the problem is that Muslims in Palestine, for example, have a clear enemy who causes their poverty, making it easier for them to hate.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Oakman wrote:
Terrorism means activities against persons, organizations or property of any nature committed by an individual or individuals acting on behalf of any foreign person or foreign interest (i.e. PETA is not a terrorist organization; but Greenpeace may be):
What foreign interest does Greenpeace have? Did I miss something?
Greenpeace is a foreign interest, except in Amsterdam. The US Government defines a foreign interest as: Any foreign government, agency of a foreign government, or representative of a foreign government; any form of business enterprise or legal entity organized, chartered or incorporated under the laws of any country other than the US. or its possessions and trust territories, and any person who is not a citizen or national of the United States.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I think the answer to that question is largely environmental. People don't wake up and decide to commit suicide, they are taught those attitudes. I also think that at least part of the problem is that Muslims in Palestine, for example, have a clear enemy who causes their poverty, making it easier for them to hate.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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I understand your frustrated. I don't really understand it myself. I don't know what everyday life is like in Pakistan or India, that would create this. Maybe its like our own US home grown terrorists. At some point, maybe, self loathing or some kind of negetive outlook on their country or life drives people to do these things. Some how life becomes valueless or maybe it always has been to these people. I don't know. It certainly does make someone wonder why or what drives people this way. Maybe it's just me.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Muslims in Palestine
You mean the Jordanians?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I believe that's who I mean, yes.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Muslims in Palestine
You mean the Jordanians?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Most of the "neo-arabism" thats happening now, my generation, does not believe in these borders imposed since colonial times, namely Great Britain and France. We're all Arabs. Period. However, because of the current borders, there is a distinction between Palestinians and Jordanians. The latter live in Jordan whilst the former are either in Israel/occupied lands/West Bank/Gaza/refugee camps all around the world/ got a second citizenship and are living abroad.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
One thing I'll tell you, there are two main causes of terrorism. Injustice and poverty.
That's an easy answer and not necessarily a bad one, but it begs the question of why do some groups suffer injustice and poverty only as long as it takes them to achieve parity (or superiority) with their neighbors (look at India) while others immediately reach for weapons in order to take or destroy what they do not have?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Coming from a region thats blamed continuously for terrorism
We're blaming that on Canada, too? :omg:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
That's an easy answer and not necessarily a bad one, but it begs the question of why do some groups suffer injustice and poverty only as long as it takes them to achieve parity (or superiority) with their neighbors (look at India) while others immediately reach for weapons in order to take or destroy what they do not have?
It is an easy answer, and certainly from one that touches on all the reasons, but in this part of the world, its certainly a starting point. When you see your family, friends, community, suffering injustice and/or starvation and what not, people develop the "I don't give a flying rat's ass" attitude real quick. Its real easy to get your hands on weapons these days. People stop caring whether it escalates if its taken to the next level or the one after that so long as they can vent some of their anger and hatred by lashing out against the world that they see is doing them an extreme injustice. Sometimes someone can be blamed for the causes, other times its just the way it happened, either way, there's A LOT of anger in the world these days.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
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Coming from a region thats blamed continuously for terrorism, I know exactly how you feel. Its terrible when a few aberrants tar the rest. One thing I'll tell you, there are two main causes of terrorism. Injustice and poverty. These two have people running, looking for spiritual advice. Sadly, instead of promoting tolerance and harmony like every religion does, these so called religious leaders start the process of brain washing and lure many a young and susceptible person into their ranks. Of course, these are not the only causes but in this part of the world (developing) its the primal pair. State sanctioned terrorism has a political agenda behind it, if only to undermine the power and stability of neighbors and enemies even in peace time. Some do it as a show of strength. Ultimately, its hateful. If you find an answer, tell me, I'd love to help put it into effect here locally and globally.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Injustice and poverty.
Bullshit. Most of these terrorists are more wealthy and free than are the people they murder. Terrorism is the consequence of a fundamentalist cultural mind set. It exists in all cultures and all societies regardless of wealth or liberty. Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not. Those societies which have done so are under no legal or moral obligation to tolerate violence from those which have not. They have every moral and legal right to use force to compel change from those societies which produce the terrorism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Injustice and poverty.
Bullshit. Most of these terrorists are more wealthy and free than are the people they murder. Terrorism is the consequence of a fundamentalist cultural mind set. It exists in all cultures and all societies regardless of wealth or liberty. Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not. Those societies which have done so are under no legal or moral obligation to tolerate violence from those which have not. They have every moral and legal right to use force to compel change from those societies which produce the terrorism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
You're a perfect example of a recruiter if you were a religious leader. Extremely short sighted and slightly more intelligent than the average bear, so you'd be able to convince some of the young'uns. Fundamentalism is certainly an engine that's running terrorism, but its not the primary cause. Come live in this part of the world, learn a new meaning of poor and then judge, if any human has the right to judge.
Stan Shannon wrote:
They have every moral and legal right to use force to compel change from those societies which produce the terrorism.
That, is precisely what they, the terrorists think, so really, you're advocating their cause by simply saying that their reasoning is correct.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
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I'm certain at least one thing that drives people this way is money. That's why Marx said Communism is inevitable - as soon as we realize that people in other nations are people too.
Would that make the Star Trek society marxist?
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I am writing this with deep frustration. I was thinking about a possible solution for terrorism. But i have no clue. Like many here in India,I never had interest to connect terrorism with any religion. Terrorists are traitors of their religion. I guess it's been over 3 years since I started a thread here supporting adnan siddique which got carried away by the other CPians who were reular in soapbox.After that one year before there happened the train bombings in Mumbai which killed over 200 people. That time I realized Adnan's anger towads India. When everybody here in CP were expressing their condolence, adnan was trying to spread his hatred towards India . I stayed in office the whole night replying to his messages and threads(I remember Vikram Punathambekar also said the same thing as eply to one of his comment). He was creating multiple threads over different Indian political Issues. Now moving from adnan,we are in deep sorrow after the mumbai attack. Analyzing the pattern of the attack it is obvious that the terrorists were higly trained and there is obvious support from external forces. India is not saying Pak government directly send these militant. But militants based from Pakistan with the support of forces like al-quida or Dawood Ibrahim must be behind this. There are many evidences to prove this. Police had found the troller that is used by the terrorists totravel from karachi. There are many eyewitnesses who have seen terrorists coming out of the troller. And the whereabouts of the arrested terorrist is the bigger evidence. Now the biggest problem is pakistan is acting as if they have not seen these evidences and asking for evidence. It's clear that Pakistan itself is sufferring heavily by terrorism. It would have been welcomed by everyone, if pakistan showed it's support for a joint investigation. The early signs from Pakistan was encouraging when the Pak president agreed to send the ISI chief to New Delhi but he latter took a U-turn after a discussion with the army. Natuarally we will be sceptical about the pakistani civiian governments control over the army. if everybody is like adnan then how could we sove this issue. They will keep on asking evidences which is as clear as daylight. If the world did not control this monster of terrorism it will distroy many places including pakistan. And one could imagine the situation if it had been got into the hands of the terrorists since pakistan being a nuclear state. We have a feeling that majority of the people are peace loving and they love hu
I don't know the solution to terrorism in general. BUt there is an easy solution to Islamic terrorism. Every single time there is an attack done in the name of Islam, we take out one of their most cherised holy sites. Give a little warning time, then send in a few cruise missles and just remove the damn thing from the face of the earth with nothing left but a goddamned crater. Maybe drop in a little pig poop after the attack just to add insult to injury. I'm pretty sure as we worked our way up to mecca something would sure as hell change.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Injustice and poverty.
Bullshit. Most of these terrorists are more wealthy and free than are the people they murder. Terrorism is the consequence of a fundamentalist cultural mind set. It exists in all cultures and all societies regardless of wealth or liberty. Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not. Those societies which have done so are under no legal or moral obligation to tolerate violence from those which have not. They have every moral and legal right to use force to compel change from those societies which produce the terrorism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Seriously ? Sure, the people exploiting the bombers are rich. The people without whom the whole system fails, who give their lives, you think they are recruited from night clubs and meetings of investment bankers ? They are recruited from the oppressed and the poor.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not.
The infrastructure only works because most people have a vested interest in making it work. It's not the fault of the people, per se, they don't choose terrorism over peace and prosperity, they don't have that short term choice and they see no way out.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Injustice and poverty.
Bullshit. Most of these terrorists are more wealthy and free than are the people they murder. Terrorism is the consequence of a fundamentalist cultural mind set. It exists in all cultures and all societies regardless of wealth or liberty. Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not. Those societies which have done so are under no legal or moral obligation to tolerate violence from those which have not. They have every moral and legal right to use force to compel change from those societies which produce the terrorism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
I'm off to bed right now, so don't expect a reply from me, but I'll be more than happy to debate this with you tomorrow. Night y'all.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
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Would that make the Star Trek society marxist?
Stan probably think so
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Seriously ? Sure, the people exploiting the bombers are rich. The people without whom the whole system fails, who give their lives, you think they are recruited from night clubs and meetings of investment bankers ? They are recruited from the oppressed and the poor.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not.
The infrastructure only works because most people have a vested interest in making it work. It's not the fault of the people, per se, they don't choose terrorism over peace and prosperity, they don't have that short term choice and they see no way out.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
What you are really trying to say, Christian, is that terrorism is the fault of evil greedy capitalists. If only we would all be good little marxists and 'spread the wealth around' there would be less terrorism. Well, no there would not, there would simply be more socialism along with more terrorism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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I believe that's who I mean, yes.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
I believe that's who I mean, yes.
I suspect you actually meant the grandchildren of Palestinians who either fled their homeland because of the 47-48 war on their own, or were forced to leave by the Israelis during that period. There were, according to UN figures, originally about 700,000 refugees, but there are now approximately 4,000,000 who claim to be descended from those who lost their homes because of the war. (I suggest to you that a lack of birth control may have had something to do with the level of poverty seen in many of these camps.) I brought up the Jordanians because they have the majority of the land of the original Palestine Mandate given to the Brits when France and England were busy dividing up the oil rich lands they'd taken from the Turks in WWI. They are, of course, a peaceful country, a constitutional monarchy, that has suceeded without having enough oil to meet its domestic needs, and none for export. They have relatively peaceful relations with Israel and have had so for many years. They neither attack their neighbors, nor seek to export religious-based violence in spite of being almost 90% Muslim. The Palestinian refugees, who plight is dire, are treated as second or third class citizens by the Arab countries that have set up closed camps for them - not unlike the way Oz and the US treated their indigines when they were displaced from their homelands. In some Arab countries where they reside, they are discriminated against by law or custom and cannot hold any but the most menial jobs. No attempt is made to integrate them with the general population nor is there anything but the most basic of aid provided to them by the Arab brothers -- although Saudi Arabia has a long tradition of rewarding those who blow themselves up inside of Israel.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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What you are really trying to say, Christian, is that terrorism is the fault of evil greedy capitalists. If only we would all be good little marxists and 'spread the wealth around' there would be less terrorism. Well, no there would not, there would simply be more socialism along with more terrorism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
What you are really trying to say, Christian, is that terrorism is the fault of evil greedy capitalists.
No, I don't believe I was saying that. I feel the need to say you're an idiot, but I'm not going to say that either. I think you made that clear, already. What a strange imaginary world you live in.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.