For all you paople labouring under the misapprehension that Thatcher ISNT behind todays mess then read on

Lost User

Thatcher came up with, well, piched from the IEA, the theory of using interest rates to controll inflation. For this to work you need an indebted society, not a saving society. Naturally if you have savings higher interest rates put money in your pocket. If you have an indebted society, a higher interest rate takes it out of your pocket. So she freed up the lending business, allowed shops to lend (store charge cards) and encouraged easy mortgage lending, including the selling of council houses to put more property into the free market for people to buy, and thus become indebted over. The result is the mess you see today. Un tempered and irresponsible lending. It is Thatchers policy taken to an extreme she probably didnt imagine that has put the UK in a position where it is hanging by a thread over a pit of such financial chaos and destructiveness that if Brown fails to prop house proces up at a reasonable level (and it has been stated by the ex chairman of the BOE today that Brown should buy homes) much of the British populace will spend the next 15 years trying to recover from the debts owed on negative equity. The effect on the inland ecconomy will be catastrophic.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Dalek Dave

Thatcher encourage home ownership and participation. She reasoned that ownership brought responsibilities, and that engendered a work ethic. Sitting on the dole and getting rent paid does not lend to a good work ethic, and if you are in a council house you will let it fall apart, secure in the knowledge that someone else will fix it. By encouraging home ownership she reasoned people would be forced to take account of their own situation and not be reliant upon others. The very fact you argue is shown now as the reason for the mess. Gordon 'Prudence' Brown has made MILLIONS reliant upon state aid. Tax Credits are a way of controlling the population. Instead of not taxing so much, he has over taxed then hands back the money. To do this he has overseen an increase of over 2 million public employees, paid for by the tax payer. Labour are the real control freaks, every aspect of our lives has been inspected and is controlled, form where we smoke to what we put in our bins. Local councils, who are supposed to be our servants are now utilising Anti-terrorism laws to ensure that parents live in school catchment areas. We are the most surveilled society in the world, and Bingo Brown announced that he was going to sell our gold reserves, thus driving the price down, so he sold it all cheap, and now it is worth a fortune and we don't have any! What a F#cking Genius that C#nt is! He is personally responsible for the cockups of the last 15 years, and there is no point blaming Thatcher. If Brown had reduced government and taxation, we would not be in this situation.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

J4amieC

There has to be some law round here to force you into politics.

pseudonym67

Dalek Dave wrote:

By encouraging home ownership she reasoned people would be forced to take account of their own situation and not be reliant upon others.

But alot of people didnt become responsible instead they used easy credit to buy houses they couldn't afford and bought things on credit cards they couldn't afford to pay off until they used more easy credit to get a consolidation loan they couldn't afford to pay. Basically money became so easy to get that we've now got a society that from the bottom up doesn't expect to have to work for anything all they have to do is get a loan and worry about repaying it at some future date when they cant find any other way of putting it off. As for the rest 5

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R Giskard Reventlov

You're flogging a dead horse: there have been 3 leaders of our green and pleasant land since Saint Thatcher: if her policies were truly so awful and unjust you would have expected at least one of them to attempt to reverse or unpick them. In particular Blair or, more likely, Brown, an unregurgitated, dyed-in-the-wool old school socialist with all the charm and grace of a decomposing corpse. The real damage has been done by Brown and Brown alone; first as chnacellor and, latterly, as prime minister. It has been his policies that have brought us to the edge, not Thatchers. Instead of bleating on about how awful Thatcher was (which I don't believe) how about doing something about what is going on now? If you feel that stringly get back here and do something instead of languishing in your euro retreat where mouthing off is easy with cheap wine and lots of sunshine and, oh, wait is there room for one more?

me, me, me

KaRl

Dalek Dave wrote:

Labour are the real control freaks, every aspect of our lives has been inspected and is controlled, form where we smoke to what we put in our bins.

You seem to have difficulties to live in a community don't you? You are not the single man on Earth, your actions have consequences for others, especially when it is about smoking or producing wastes.

Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man. Syndicalism is the opposite. Fold with us! ¤ flickr

Dalek Dave

I do live in a community, but we are constantly told of other peoples rights. What of MY rights? In a community why should some work to pay for it whilst others sit on their fat behinds like parasitic scum? I pay my taxes, I should have more say than those who do not. If they want an input, work and pay for it.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

KaRl

Dalek Dave wrote:

What of MY rights?

Your rights stop where the rights of the others begin.

Dalek Dave wrote:

I pay my taxes, I should have more say than those who do not.

BS. One man, one vote.

When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?

Fold with us! ¤ flickr

R Giskard Reventlov

Ka?l wrote:

BS. One man, one vote.

That's not what he said. I completely agree with him: if I pay my taxes and a lazy git like you doesn't why should you have the same say in the dispersement of those tax dollars as me? You want a say... contribute.

me, me, me

Dalek Dave

Why should you have a say if you do not contribute?

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

KaRl

Never heard about human rights?

If you kill a whale, you get Greenpeace and Jacques Cousteau on your back, but wipe out sardines and you get a canning subsidy! Fold with us! ¤ flickr

hairy_hats

So representation without taxation is OK? In that case, since who is POTUS affects the world, we should all have voting rights in the US presidential elections.

Lost User

Look, I am not saying Brown is a hero, he isnt. He is a socialist and now has so many employed by the state that the UK is becoming like Belgium. But, Thatchers model, using interest rates to control inflation does require an indebted society. By the very nature of this we have todays problems. Imagine a model that instead of interest rates used a mandatory personal pension rate to mop up excess M4 (the free cash in the system). Such a model would have the desired benefit but give the money back to the people when they retire, and not affect businesses and savers. Its a far better idea.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Lost User

Re-read my post jew_boy. (God I love taking the piss :)) No, seriouslyt, the whole idea of using interest rates to controll inflation was started by her and kept up by every government since. It is this that has led to easy credit and todays problems. In fact, todays problem just might fuck the UK up so badly it will be a third world contry by the end of the year.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Lost User

digital man wrote:

Instead of bleating on about how awful Thatcher was

She was close, but her policies were taken too far. Steam needed taking out of the credit buccle 8 years ago. A bit of tightening, a bit of regulation would have saved the UK from todays disaster, and it is in aa serious position. If Brown cant gradually deflate house prices over the next 5 years back to a sensible value then the bubble is going to pop and put a lot of peoplel into negative equity. See, the thing is, that no bank is going to lend on a property on a downward market. They are only going to lend when someone brings in half the value of the house, because they are looking on the future value of houses halving. And so it is a self-fulfilling prediction, since lending governs house prices, by not lending till they get to 50%, they will force a 50% correciton. Now, marklets like to deflate with a bang, so do baloons, but if Brown lets that happen then the UK is fucked. Thats why he is so keen to keep prices high, and deflate over time. He can only do this by taking ownership of banks and covering the loss by taxes. Which is what he is doing.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Lost User

digital man wrote:

If you feel that stringly get back here and do something instead of languishing in your euro retreat where mouthing off is easy with cheap wine and lots of sunshine and, oh, wait is there room for one more

Our UK house has halved its euro value over the last year. And its gong to drop another 50%. BTW, the snow is deep, the sun is out, the wine is cheap, and the countryside beautiful here in Provence! Gloat gloat! :) And no, the shed isnt big enough to move into!

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Oakman

Steve_Harris wrote:

So representation without taxation is OK?

It's a lot better than the reverse. Which did you mean?

Steve_Harris wrote:

we should all have voting rights in the US presidential elections.

But you must - why else would Obama have campaigned all over Europe?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

John Carson

fat_boy wrote:

No, seriouslyt, the whole idea of using interest rates to controll inflation was started by her and kept up by every government since.

No it wasn't. Seems you are an all purpose moron and not just a climate change moron.

John Carson

Lost User

Wow, you really are a sad little person.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Lost User

John Carson wrote:

No it wasn't

OK, to take you just a little bit seriously, the IEA came up with the idea and she implemented it. So tell me, who in your opinion did, and if you say Regan then dont forget the close relationship she had with him.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription