"Community" values [modified]

[Ilion]

Richard A. Abbott wrote[^]:

The problem Jon is that both Ilion and Stan are taking the words of Dickens as a factual account of peoples lives of the time. But the truth is, they are works of fiction. Nothing more, nothing less, although they are great stories. But stories based upon what he saw and witnessed. Yet in terms of historical context, these works of Dickens are thought to indeed reflect some truth and reality. As far as Ilion and Stan are concerned, it is evident that they are placing things outside of historical context.

Of course, the truth is just the opposite. It is the little mites of "the community" who are trying to have it that Dickens' fiction was truth, or at least "mostly accurate." [edit: as see the quote -- Mr Abbot is trying to have it both ways; that Dickens' oeuvre is fiction ... yet truth] On the other hand, my point in posting John Ray's blog and the NYT piece is to point out that "what everyone knows" about the conditions of the poor in the early industrial era, which "knowledge" is heavily influenced by, if not entirely dependent upon, Dickens, just ain't so. Dickens was a teller of (tall) tales. It is you children who are attempting, as you always do, to play the "fake but accurate" card.

modified on Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:43 PM

[Ilion]

It's been almost an hour an a half. Are you getting old and slow? Most I trade you in for a more spry fool?

[Dalek Dave]

Ilíon wrote:

Most I trade you in for a more spry fool?

Learn to speak English, you twat!

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

[Oakman]

Ilíon wrote:

more spry fool

That would be "spryer fool." It appears your inability to cope with your mother tongue runs deeper than I suspected.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Lost User]

Poor you. Having to await my attendance of this fine forum. Although a Sunday evening, I do have other things to occupy my time without wondering if little Troy is having a hissyfit. Well Troy, you stop having your hissyfit now. Go get your handkerchief and wipe away your tears of torment. For the answer to your question (above), I refer you to the resources I linked to in the thread some way below this. I also refer you to the words I used through that very same thread where at no time have I said that Dickens stories were in fact wholly true and accurate. What I said was that they are works of fiction yet these works of fiction were a representation of how Dickens saw and witnessed human life as it probably happened in front of his own two eyes. That does not make Dickens a liar. But it did make politicians of the era take notice of the inhumane Poor Law Amendment Act of 1834 and thus change things for the better and that included statutes that enabled the Metropolitan Board of Works in 1855. To quote Dickens in his defence of Oliver Twist, "I saw no reason, when I wrote this book, why the very dregs of life, so long as their speech did not offend the ear, should not serve the purpose of a moral, at least as well as its froth and cream"