Israel signs unilateral ceasefire...

Andy_L_J

...but Hamas is not part of the equation?? Hamas quote... "we want, we want, we want....otherwise we will continue our 'resistance'..." Same old shit

I don't speak Idiot - please talk slowly and clearly

Andy_L_J

Spoke too soon - ceasefire broken already. 5 rockets fired at Sderot. Didn't really expect anything else.

I don't speak Idiot - please talk slowly and clearly

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

That simply says that Israel won't alter any of its policies on Gaza other than not killing civilians out right. Blockade won't be lifted, troops won't be pulled out, humanitarian crisis still there. Don't think for a minute that Hamas is good, those thugs deserved what they got, but I feel very sorry for the people living there. I think this is just a lull before the slaughter is continued. Some objectives they've accomplished.

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Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

Are you taking about the rockets that were launched after the announcement but before the deadline or are these new ones? Either way, Hamas have proved themselves to be pigs time and again.

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Andy_L_J

I'm afraid you are right Mustafa - If all the Hawks could be removed from both sides maybe something positive can be acheived but I am not holding my breath. Seems the situation is exactly what the leaders want and to hell with any civilians (on either side of the fence.)

I don't speak Idiot - please talk slowly and clearly

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

Andy_L_J wrote:

If all the Hawks could be removed from both sides maybe something positive can be acheived but I am not holding my breath

True.

Andy_L_J wrote:

Seems the situation is exactly what the leaders want and to hell with any civilians (on either side of the fence.)

That's exactly how I see it.

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Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation

Lost User

I like Kelly Montief's idea of taking all those determined to 'save' people from others like themselves and put them on a small island somewhere so us cowards can get on with out lives.

Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

We can add to it by sending them Jerry Springer and just 1 knife...

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Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation

realJSOP

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

humanitarian crisis still there

You mean Hamas can still probably fire missiles into Israel?

"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

As in the IDF can kill off a few hundred more civilians in defense.

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Vikram A Punathambekar

I know NOTHING about Jerry Springer, but the scene in The Spy Who Shagged Me is hilarious! It had me laughing till I hurt.

Cheers, Vıkram.

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

He's nothing more than a Circus master, his show is/was a complete farce with obviously planned fights being played on TV with the most pathetic (I really can't stress that enough) participants who would make some of CPs trolls seem like supreme beings in comparison. I wonder what his term as the Mayor of Chicago was like...

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Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation

Stan Shannon

Trollslayer wrote:

I like Kelly Montief's idea of taking all those determined to 'save' people from others like themselves and put them on a small island somewhere so us cowards can get on with out lives.

Or we could all just surrender to the Muslims. That would save the civilians. Well, except for women such as yourself of course who would obviously need to be stoned to death. But, hey, the rest of us would get by just fine with only the daily bowing and scraping to mecca to contend with.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

Do you know the slightest thing about Shari'a laws as to why a man or woman would be stoned to death?

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Stan Shannon

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

Do you know the slightest thing about Shari'a laws as to why a man or woman would be stoned to death?

The fact that such a law is even allowed to exist , or that such a barbaric act is considered a 'law' of any kind in the first place is all I need to know to make me an expert on Islamic civilization. I'm actually pretty sure, however, that it has something to do with doing the dinky winky with your stinky. Which would mean of course that your going to need a lot of rocks in most parts of the modern world. Should make for good exercise for the rest of us more chaste sorts though...

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

Stan Shannon wrote:

The fact that such a law is even allowed to exist , or that such a barbaric act is considered a 'law' of any kind in the first place is all I need to know to make me an expert on Islamic civilization.

Here, wrap your brain around this: Adultery in the bible[^] [quote from the link] The seriousness of the sin of adultery can be seen in several ways. Under the law of Moses the penalty was death by stoning. You could argue that this law would only pertain to Judaism since it was told to Moses, but that would automatically render the other 9 commandments useless to Christianity.

Stan Shannon wrote:

all I need to know to make me an expert on Islamic civilization.

I personally don't think you'd know civilization if it bit you on the nose.

Stan Shannon wrote:

I'm actually pretty sure, however, that it has something to do with doing the dinky winky with your stinky. Which would mean of course that your going to need a lot of rocks in most parts of the modern world.

Technically true. It would apply to married men or women. It is partially enacted in Saudi Arabia, Iran and by the Taliban. If you were to follow Islamic law to the letter, you have no conceivable idea of how hard it is to prove adultery. Yes it needs 4 witnesses, but there are a few dozen rules as to whom can be considered a witness and in fact they had to be present when the act was happening.

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Stan Shannon

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

If you were to follow Islamic law to the letter, you have no conceivable idea of how hard it is to prove adultery. Yes it needs 4 witnesses, but there are a few dozen rules as to whom can be considered a witness and in fact they had to be present when the act was happening.

Mustafa, the fact that you can even seriously opine on such concepts is absolutely horrifying. Can similar notions be found in the Old testament? Of course. It was written in the freaking bronze age - you know, right after people had stopped banging rocks together for tools. The useful thing about christianity is, first, it promotes the notion, as a central tenet, of turning the other cheek, and letting those who are without sin cast the first stone. You know, more iron age, pre dark ages, notions of tolerance and civility. There is not 'four witnesses' kinds of legal concepts to be found in it anywhere. It isn't a code of laws, its a set of moral principles. Further, Christ articulated the first notion of separation of church and state - give unto caesar that which is caesar's and unto God that which is God's. What that means is that, as a Christian, it is perfectly acceptable that I allow my self to be ruled by laws that were not written in the fucking bronze age.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

That simply says that Israel won't alter any of its policies on Gaza other than not killing civilians out right.

I would have thought you'd be in favor of that.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

I think this is just a lull before the slaughter is continued.

You may be right. It depends on what Hamas does. (This is important for you to understand) A ceasefire is not a peace treaty. It is an agreement to stop active hostilities so that negotiations for a treaty can be conducted without further provocations. A unilateral cease-fire, as this one is, is an amazing leap of faith on the part of Israel. Israel has signaled its willingness to negotiate about the blockade, removal of the troops, etc. Whether these things happen or not will depend on how much pressure is put on Hamas by the citizens of Gaza, the Egyptians, Hamas's paymasters in Iran, and others - including, to some small extent, you. As long as you insist on painting Israel as the big bad wolf coming after the three pitiful little pigs rather than recognizing that they are making an honest effort to create a peaceful situation, you are part of the problem, my friend.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

Some objectives they've accomplished.

They have given Hamas strong reasons to consider signing a peace treaty and they have provided a lull in the combat in which negotiations can take place. What more could they have wanted? Certainly they don't want to occupy Gaza, they'd already done that and voluntarily gave it up.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

Stan Shannon wrote:

Mustafa, the fact that you can even seriously opine on such concepts is absolutely horrifying.

Just because I'm knowledgeable regarding Islam does not entail that I follow it to the letter. Keep in mind, Islam is only 600 years younger than Christianity, the development that had occurred between both wasn't too much. I'll provide an opinion on anything that I'm knowledgeable about or can find out about, that's what you do as well; you state that it is horrifying and that in itself is an opinion unless you're implying that only you can opine on anything? That smacks very much of bigotry.

Stan Shannon wrote:

The useful thing about christianity is, first, it promotes the notion, as a central tenet, of turning the other cheek, and letting those who are without sin cast the first stone.

One thing that is completely misunderstood about Islam is that it does not promote pre-emptive action nor radical reaction. It actually promotes the same tenet of Christianity and it also defines exactly how one should react to what. No where do its teachings inform you to turn into a red-eyed berserker shrieking "jihad" against everything in sight. A main point of Islam is moderation, but sadly, many of the radicals are trying to show the world otherwise.

Stan Shannon wrote:

It isn't a code of laws, its a set of moral principles

Islam is both. Mohammed did say [my translation] "I only came to finalize the best/kindest of morals" and another "[Abrahamic] religion is morality" are amongst many other things that are statutes of Islam.

Stan Shannon wrote:

What that means is that, as a Christian, it is perfectly acceptable that I allow my self to be ruled by laws that were not written in the f***ing bronze age.

Islamic laws are only subject in an Islamic state, otherwise, muslims are required to follow the laws of the land they are in.

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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

Oakman wrote:

I would have thought you'd be in favor of that.

Yes and no. I'm certainly in favor of stopping any military action that harms or has the high probability of harming civilians; for that, I am grateful that they stopped what they're doing. But there is still the blockade, the civilians dead, dying and injured that they have to account for, and before you say it, its not just Israel I hold to account for them, but Hamas as well.

Oakman wrote:

You may be right. It depends on what Hamas does.

I hope that I'm wrong and Hamas does the right thing and shuts the hell up and moderates itself, willing to lose what it considers clout for the sake of the civilians on both sides of the border.

Oakman wrote:

A ceasefire is not a peace treaty. It is an agreement to stop active hostilities so that negotiations for a treaty can be conducted without further provocations.

Please, who do you think I am? I know very well what a ceasefire is and I know what peace treaty is. I just hope both sides do the right thing. Yes both sides, you don't want Hamas thinking its tougher than it is and you don't want hardliners on the Israeli side thinking that there's still more to do.

Oakman wrote:

Israel has signaled its willingness to negotiate about the blockade, removal of the troops, etc. Whether these things happen or not will depend on how much pressure is put on Hamas by the citizens of Gaza, the Egyptians, Hamas's paymasters in Iran, and others - including, to some small extent, you.

Quite true. You don't worry about my part, I'll scream from the rooftops if need be. I've already donated to the Red Cross/Red Crescent (through my father in law) near $1500 in food, blankets, soap and basic medical needs (bandages, anti-biotics, etc).

Oakman wrote:

As long as you insist on painting Israel as the big bad wolf coming after the three pitiful little pigs rather than recognizing that they are making an honest effort to create a peaceful situation, you are part of the problem, my friend.

It is only now that they have unclenched their fist. I'm saddened that you think that, all the time I was shrieking for moderation and for the civilians.

Oakman wrote:

They have given Hamas st