Now that BHO has bollocks'd the swearing in of the most important job in the world...

Oakman

BoneSoft wrote:

I've heard of lying under oath, what happens when you lie during oath

The President most often cited as violating the Constitution was Lincoln. Jefferson admitted to exercising power that he was not giving by the Constitution, and it is hard for me to believe that Bush's wiretapping of American citizens was not extra- if not un- constitutional. In every case the defense made is "It was absolutly necessary," which has often sounded to me like "It was necessary to destroy the village in order to save it." It is possible that Obama may continue the tradition of the unary presidency that Bush and Cheney embraced, but while I know you have received a message from God regarding Obama's citizenship, it would appear that most of the rest of us didn't get the memo.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Gary Kirkham · modified on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:36 AM

I don't know, later approval ratings are one thing, but I also remember him being despised by those who thought he "stole" the election. But yeah, by the second inauguration whatever good will he may have had, had long since disappeared.

Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

Oakman

Gary Kirkham wrote:

I also remember him being despised by those who thought he "stole" the election.

You're right, Gary. There definitely were Democrats acting like children back then. To be accurate I was thinking of Bush's approval rating (90%) right after 9/11. I still cannot believe that he allowed the neocons to divert him from Afghanistan and Bin Laden. Had he remained on track, I suspect we'd have a Republican in the Whitehouse today. (And a much gentler economic downturn.) Instead Cheney and Rumsfeld conned him into a war we had no right nor reason to wage (except some "intelligence" that was anything but, even though it served their agenda) at the cost of allowing the mastermind of 9/11 to escape, and a military occupation of a country that we'd been told would hail us as liberators.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

BoneSoft

I'm sorry, apparently my tin foil beanie paid off. Forgive me for wanting the Constitution upheld. No wait, I shouldn't have to apologize for that.

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BoneSoft

And they should have all been held accountable for that. I don't know how Lincoln got away with throwing dissenting journalists in jail. And if he had just taken office, I'd be complaining about him instead.

Oakman wrote:

while I know you have received a message from God regarding Obama's citizenship, it would appear that most of the rest of us didn't get the memo.

That's the point, nobody got the memo. The memo has been sealed. But God wasn't the one who sealed his records. God wasn't one of his two half sisters who cited two different hospitals he was born at neither of which existed in 61. God wasn't his grandmother who said she was present at his birth in Kenya. God wasn't the one who let him into Afghanistan at a time when noone could with a US passport. God wasn't the one who got him into school in Indonesian when you had to be a citizen there to do so. I don't question his citizenship, I question the class of his citizenship, as the evidence and the Constitution pretty much require. And as multiple Supreme Court cases suggest, thankfully I'm not alone. Too bad they'll likely be swept aside without consideration. But make no mistake, this isn't sour grapes as many here would like to dismissively suggest, I want the Constitution and the law, without them we have nothing. After crying for 8 years about Bush stealing elections, I guess the left felt oblidged to go a big step further in retaliation. I have no doubt that nothing will be done about it, since nobody seems to care about the Constitution any more. And because of that, maybe the majority of voters will get what they deserve, it's just too bad the rest of us will be equally punished. Maybe the unwarranted ridiculous optimism surrounding him won't have been in vain, I certainly hope that's the case. But it won't just be PC when he's called the first African American president. I would absolutely love to be proven wrong, and that would only take him ponying up a couple of easily attainable documents that he should have been required to produce in the first place. If he would only do that, then I'd have to sit back and take his policies as legitimate.

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oilFactotum

BoneSoft wrote:

I shouldn't have to apologize for that.

No, you shouldn't. But I am curious where your concern for the constitition has been for the last 8 year.

BoneSoft

It's always been there. In what ways do you see that it was violated? Other than Cheney's view of his job description, which I'm aware of.

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oilFactotum

Illegal domestic surveillance program and torture to name 2 violations.

Oakman

BoneSoft wrote:

I'm sorry, apparently my tin foil beanie paid off.

Most of us have looked at the same evidence that Adnan did and we decided that Bush didn't order 9/11. Now we have looked at the same evidence you have, and we decided that it doesn't prove that Obama's birth record is a forgery.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman

BoneSoft wrote:

Maybe the unwarranted ridiculous optimism surrounding him won't have been in vain

Depends on what you mean, "in vain." There is no chance that he can wave a magic wand and get us out of the mess we have put ourselves into. And anyone who thinks that he can or will will have to discover all over again that there is no Santa Claus. On the other hand, it would seem to me that he stands a decent chance of having the intelligence and wisdom to ameliorate the effects of this crisis. The biggest threat to this, it seems to me comes from Pelosi and Reid. And the biggest advantage he will have in any struggle with them is his inordinate popularity - in which they do not share.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Rob Graham

BoneSoft wrote:

I would absolutely love to be proven wrong, and that would only take him ponying up a couple of easily attainable documents that he should have been required to produce in the first place. If he would only do that, then I'd have to sit back and take his policies as legitimate.

If this isn't enough, then it is likely that you really don't wish to accept the truth[^]

BoneSoft

OK, right to privacy. But... I don't remember anything in the Constitution agaist torture, or anything of rights offorded by the Constitution for those who aren't citizens or legal residents. What else ya got?

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BoneSoft

I didn't say it was. But the short form, altered or not, doesn't give relevant details. If, as the likely story goes, he was born in Kenya and flown to Hawaii, he would have the document that's posted on factcheck and wouldn't have the documents that he refuses to produce. Did you just equate my concerns to an Adnan conspiracy theory? Cuz them's fightin wurds!

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BoneSoft

One web site? Really? If factcheck.org isn't good enough for me then I'm obviously unhindged? What do they say about the JFK assassination, cuz that's a burning question I'd love to have cleared up too. Why isn't the Supreme Court sending all it's cases to FactCheck? I guess if it's good enough for the DNC... I can find sites that say otherwise, is two enough to trump your one? Or would I need more to counter FactCheck's cool name? You do realize that factcheck hasn't always been right, right?

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BoneSoft

Oakman wrote:

And anyone who thinks that he can or will will have to discover all over again that there is no Santa Claus.

I think that may be a larger portion of his voters and foreign supporters than you imagine.

Oakman wrote:

On the other hand, it would seem to me that he stands a decent chance of having the intelligence and wisdom to ameliorate the effects of this crisis.

I really hope so. I really do hope you are right.

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Rob Graham

Did you even read that NON-PARTISAN independant sites analysis of the evidence? did you look at the pictures of the birth Cert from Hawaii, or read the quote from the Head of the Hawaii Dept of health and the registrar of vital statistics? No, just pull down that tin-foil hat tighter. Damn I'm glad I left the Republican fold. You, Stan and Ilion can have it. enjoy. BTW - the cert copies have been provided to the idiots doing the suing. TheY are demanding what Hawaii does not offer: the long form cert. The documents suitable to satisfy everyone else including the US State Dept are just not good enough for them (or you), which is why their suits draw little besides disdain and laughter.

Oakman

BoneSoft wrote:

Did you just equate my concerns to an Adnan conspiracy theory? Cuz them's fightin wurds!

I considered using Rosie O'Donnell as the other example, but I knew I'd really piss you off then.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

BoneSoft

Rob Graham wrote:

Did you even read that NON-PARTISAN independant sites analysis of the evidence?

Yes I have, multiple times over the last few months.

Rob Graham wrote:

TheY are demanding what Hawaii does not offer: the long form cert.

And I've seen a copy of a long form from the same year. However in this case, I'm sure you read "We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response." There is plenty of evidence to warrant seeking proof of his actual birth place. All it would take is a hospital name and a doctor. Which has been offered by multiple family members, all giving different names of hospitals that didn't exist in 61. And no hospital currently there has any record of him. What's more contemptable, the fact that I want to know or that you don't? I dunno, maybe I've held onto this long enough, and partly for partisan reasons I'll admit. I quess I'd just like to have some of that hope crap everybody keeps raving about lately.

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BoneSoft

You're right, Adnan was a much gentler dig. That hurts Jon. I'm going to go back to work and call you dirty names for a while.

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Oakman

BoneSoft wrote:

I'm going to go back to work and call you dirty names for a while.

Now you sound like my ex wife. :omg:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface